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ghatreh0

join:2011-09-23

Upgrade from DSL 6 to DSL 7

Hi,
1. Please clarify if upgrade from DSL 6 to DSL 7 (FTTN) is automatic and free of charge? Or I need to make a request if I am qualified?

2. Just curious, why DSL 7 (75 GB and 300 GB plans) is cheaper than DSL 6?
Thanks

Kewjoe

join:2002-04-14
North York, ON
1. Not automatic. You have to call in and place an order. It will cost you $50 to move from GAS to FTTN.

2. FTTN is cheaper than GAS.

bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
There's a $25 install discount.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to ghatreh0
said by ghatreh0:

2. Just curious, why DSL 7 (75 GB and 300 GB plans) is cheaper than DSL 6?

With the wholesale rate for 7/1 being almost over $10/month higher, this one got me scratching my head too... makes no sense.

RuralOtt

join:2004-12-07
K2G
reply to bjlockie
said by bjlockie:

There's a $25 install discount.

No there isn't. Not for me. I asked and the sale/order rep doesn't know anything about this discount.


TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:25
reply to ghatreh0
It is not automatic. You would need to call to make the change.

6Mbps is "Legacy" which tariffs are not as attractive as newer technology.
7Mbps is "FTTN" which new tariffs are much more attractive.

Thanks,

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery

TekSavvy Website | TekSavvy Blog

ghatreh0

join:2011-09-23
reply to RuralOtt
I just called now and I was told there is a charge of $50, but in teksavvy site under "Charges" and "Line Speed Change" indicates $25. Anyone from Teksavvy staff can clarify this?


TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:25

2 edits
Going from Legacy to FTTN is $50
Going from Legacy to VDSL (25 & 50) is $50
Going from FTTN to Legacy is $25
Going from FTTN to FTTN is $25
Going from FTTN to VDSL (25 & 50) is $50
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to Legacy is $25
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to FTTN is $25
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to VDSL (25 & 50) is $25

6 = Legacy
7, 10 & 15 = FTTN
15/10, 25 & 50 = VDSL

--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery

TekSavvy Website | TekSavvy Blog


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to ghatreh0
The $25 discount that has been mentioned is "Receive $25 off your activation fee with the purchase of one of our DSL modems." Most people moving from ADSL to ADSL2+ (like 6 to 7 or 6 to 15) aren't going to need a new modem.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to ghatreh0
said by ghatreh0:

I just called now and I was told there is a charge of $50, but in teksavvy site under "Charges" and "Line Speed Change" indicates $25. Anyone from Teksavvy staff can clarify this?

Legacy DSL 6 to FTTN DSL 7 isn't a line speed change, but a new order. TSI Andre's post clarifies all the scenarios.


Jeff Ott

@teksavvy.com
reply to TSI Andre
said by TSI Andre:

Going from Legacy to FTTN is $50
Going from Legacy to VDSL (25 & 50) is $50
Going from FTTN to Legacy is $50
Going from FTTN to FTTN is $25
Going from FTTN to VDSL (25 & 50) is $50
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to Legacy is $50
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to FTTN is $50
Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to VDSL (25 & 50) is $25

6 = Legacy
7, 10 & 15 = FTTN
15/10, 25 & 50 = VDSL

So I don't see the value in this. For the incremental speed increase (legacy to FTTN) I get a small drop in price - but it costs me $50 up front.

It will take over a year for the price reduction to pay off the $50 'new order' fee!


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to ghatreh0
It's a more reliable service due to shorter loop lengths, line conditioning (they remove bridge taps), and newer equipment/infrastructure. Many people would also qualify for 7 meg on FTTN, but lower speeds like 3 meg on legacy.

If you have stable and reliable 6 meg service, there is no big need to upgrade, apart from the modest speed boost of downstream and upstream. It's possible that in the future Bell might decommission legacy hardware in your region, though, which might force you to upgrade.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:25
reply to Jeff Ott
See Guspaz's post right below yours


Crowbar10

join:2009-06-23
Toronto , ON
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

It's possible that in the future Bell might decommission legacy hardware in your region, though, which might force you to upgrade.

Typical HBELL , it's always about revenue

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

It's a more reliable service due to shorter loop lengths, line conditioning (they remove bridge taps), and newer equipment/infrastructure.

Most Bell's network conditioning and bridge taps removal is done as part of regular/bulk network maintenance rather than per-order at 2-3X the cost and Bell had to protest against the CRTC denying those costs incurred prior to mid-2010 or so being included in FTTN costing. Since the bulk clean-up being done in anticipation of providing higher-value services does not discriminate between loops without any service, POTS or xDSL on them, even legacy and POTS benefit from it.

As far as "legacy equipment" goes, I bet most people ordering legacy 6/0.8 in urban areas where VDSL2 is available are going to keep landing on the same IKNS remotes people ordering "FTTN" access land on for the foreseeable future due to ADSL1/2 ports getting freed up by people migrating to VDSL2. Sure, it isn't guaranteed but odds are pretty good since this is more convenient and cheaper for Bell too.

ekp

join:2004-09-14
Kanata, ON
reply to ghatreh0
Hello,

Just couple of questions about that:
- with that 7M service, what actual speed should be expected - 7M minus overhead, or 7M ?
- is any work should be done inside house - "normal" splitter installation, or everything is done outside at Bell side ? (I recall that year ago people talked about new splitter)
- If I currently have group discount with legacy product, will same discount be applied for new service ?

--
Thanks !

padenom

join:2008-03-28
Montreal, QC
reply to ghatreh0
Thinking of moving from DSL6 to FTTN DSL 7.
Changes will effectively cost me $50 I believe.
How much of this goes to Bell?

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to ghatreh0
"Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to FTTN is $50"

"Going from FTTN to FTTN is $25"

If you would entertain my 'nit-picking' , I'd say that those two statements are almost entirely contradictory?!?!

VDSL 25 / 50 is FTTN.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by urbang33k:

"Going from VDSL (25 & 50) to FTTN is $50"

"Going from FTTN to FTTN is $25"

If you would entertain my 'nit-picking' , I'd say that those two statements are almost entirely contradictory?!?!

VDSL 25 / 50 is FTTN.

The wording should be changed I guess to be FTTN ADSL2 and FTTN VDSL.

Though I still would like to know from Bell what is done differently between the two installations.


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:9
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
reply to ekp
said by ekp:

Hello,

Just couple of questions about that:
- with that 7M service, what actual speed should be expected - 7M minus overhead, or 7M ?

Any profile that's not VDSL2 will use ATM encapsulation, so ~6.2Mbps if it's 7Mbps, but I'm sure the profiles are slightly higher to account for the overhead.


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by xsbell:

said by ekp:

Hello,

Just couple of questions about that:
- with that 7M service, what actual speed should be expected - 7M minus overhead, or 7M ?

Any profile that's not VDSL2 will use ATM encapsulation, so ~6.2Mbps if it's 7Mbps, but I'm sure the profiles are slightly higher to account for the overhead.

Yup. Seems to be the case. I am on FTTN 7M and I noticed today that my actual download speed on SABnzbd was around 7M or even slightly higher (single video download).
--
BHell... A Public Futility. When life throws you lemons, make lemonade.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to ghatreh0
Bell does set the sync profiles higher to account for overhead on ADSL2+, although they can't do that fully for the upstream (because they're selling 1 meg upstream and it maxes out at 1.088 megs). VDSL2 does get both the up and down overhead fully compensated for, although VDSL2 inherently has a ton less overhead on account of not using ATM.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

The $25 discount that has been mentioned is "Receive $25 off your activation fee with the purchase of one of our DSL modems." Most people moving from ADSL to ADSL2+ (like 6 to 7 or 6 to 15) aren't going to need a new modem.

There is no mention of a requirement to buy a modem.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
said by bjlockie:

There is no mention of a requirement to buy a modem.

Yes, there is.

That text appears on both the all ADSL and ADSL2+ tiers, but not the VDSL2 tiers (which have no discount). Marc has indicated this no longer applies, but it wasn't clear if he meant it doesn't apply to VDSL2, or if the discount doesn't apply at all, or the modem purchase is no longer required.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
reply to ghatreh0
This seems like the appropriate thread to post this question. I'm moving from legacy 6 meg to FTTN 7 meg next week. Apparently, a telecom tech will have to come to my apartment to install a POTS splitter (totally separate from the Bell tech going to the node to enable FTTN). Question... is this just one piece of equipment that gets installed where the router-modem is? Or is one installed at every phone jack?

mactalla

join:2008-02-19
kudos:1
POTS splitters are usually installed at the demarc (which are usually outside your house). You can have an internal POTS splitter which, in that case will be right where your modem is.

The stuff at every phone jack you're thinking of are filters and are completely unnecessary if you've got a POTS splitter (so if you do still have some, you can get rid of them).

Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
said by mactalla:

POTS splitters are usually installed at the demarc (which are usually outside your house). You can have an internal POTS splitter which, in that case will be right where your modem is.

I live in a condo building, and have no idea where the demarc for my suite is.

mactalla

join:2008-02-19
kudos:1
If you have more than one pair going up to your condo I expect they'll put it in the wiring closet with the rest of Bell's gear. If not they'll likely install a splitter right at your jack inside your condo. In that case your jack in the wall will become 2 jacks. One that you'll use for your modem and the other for phone.

Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
said by mactalla:

If you have more than one pair going up to your condo I expect they'll put it in the wiring closet with the rest of Bell's gear. If not they'll likely install a splitter right at your jack inside your condo. In that case your jack in the wall will become 2 jacks. One that you'll use for your modem and the other for phone.

Thanks. For the install, I'll have clear the area near the jack in my computer den (actually spare bedroom). Quite the rats-nest of wiring I have there...
•An ST546 router/modem; like a 516, but has 4 ports.
•2 Dell PC's that are getting on in years.
•1 netbook.
•1 port with a 50 foot ethernet cable to my "Home Theatre" PC in the living room.
•USB drive for backups. Doesn't everybody?
•The 2 PC's, netbook, ST546, and USB drive are hooked up directly or indirectly to a UPS.


Jeff Ott

@teksavvy.com
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

It's a more reliable service due to shorter loop lengths, line conditioning (they remove bridge taps), and newer equipment/infrastructure. Many people would also qualify for 7 meg on FTTN, but lower speeds like 3 meg on legacy.

If you have stable and reliable 6 meg service, there is no big need to upgrade, apart from the modest speed boost of downstream and upstream. It's possible that in the future Bell might decommission legacy hardware in your region, though, which might force you to upgrade.

Thanks for the response, Guspaz! I appreciate it.

But as one of your regular posters pointed out elsewhere...
said by InvalidError:

As for possibly lower support costs, I seriously doubt those costs would account the remainder of the $12/month discrepancy between wholesale costs and retail rates. Lately, there seems to be far many more people complaining about speed and profile issues on FTTN than legacy so I doubt legacy support costs are substantially higher.

Is there any data to confirm/refute a statement like that? Maybe FTTN is more reliable (technically) but not from the enduser standpoint if Bell is monkeywrenching profiles all the time.

And if TekSavvy's profit margin for FTTN is so thin (compared to legacy) I wonder how long before we see a surprise price increase on those tiers? I would hate to fork over $50 just to have them raise my rates soon after...