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M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

2002 Accord, Sub-frame rot.. ANGRY!

Click for full size
View from above
Click for full size
Directly below the rusted out spot
Click for full size
The back of the sub-frame
Click for full size
Where the one part meets the next, this is hard metal and not rusted threw.
This car has 90K on it and looks mint, i have some strange tranny issues with this car and have been doing some inspecting of this and that. Today with the passenger side wheel off i see THIS! Sub-frame rot! I then go on line and see people trying to force Honda to fix this because the AC drain drips right on that part of the sub-frame.

I took a few pictures and also noticed that the rust in not threw to the bottom. I wonder if i can have the rusted part cleaned out and some metal welded in.


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

People are stalking Honda for a recall because the drain tube for the AC is right the above the passenger side rear beam front sub frame. Its a manufacturing and design defect that is also a safety issue. The drives side is rust free.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Sounds to me like they should repair it. A car 10 years old and otherwise well maintained should NOT have that kind of rot.

That IS a safety issue. How many years are affected?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

1 edit

1998 to 2002, read more here..

»www.arfc.org/complaints/2000/hon···lem.aspx

A lot of people are telling me I'm crazy to be so mad because the car is 11 years old and "cars rust" Come on i say, this seems a bit strange. And i have all the service records from day one and even the window sticker! This car had been maintained by the book and the dealer never saw that rust? Like it just appeared here today? Car has only 90K on it. The drivers side sub-frame is rust free!

Side note, between this and the shitty accord auto-trans F-U Honda! Why do people love these cars? I see these accords on Craigslist all the time. A really beat one is like $2000!!!! and some like mine are $5000 or even MORE, its a SCAM! I would just sell this now but i cant live with the fact some chick could be driving with her kids or to school and the fucking frame cracks in half.

What a nightmare. Car has been in family since new.

»www.arfc.org/complaints/2002/hon···lem.aspx



RobNyc
Premium
join:2002-03-06
New York, NY

said by M A R S:

1998 to 2002, read more here..

»www.arfc.org/complaints/2000/hon···lem.aspx

A lot of people are telling me I'm crazy to be so mad because the car is 11 years old and "cars rust" Come on i say, this seems a bit strange. And i have all the service records from day one and even the window sticker! This car had been maintained by the book and the dealer never saw that rust? Like it just appeared here today? Car has only 90K on it. The drivers side sub-frame is rust free!

Side note, between this and the shitty accord auto-trans F-U Honda! Why do people love these cars? I see these accords on Craigslist all the time. A really beat one is like $2000!!!! and some like mine are $5000 or even MORE, its a SCAM! I would just sell this now but i cant live with the fact some chick could be driving with her kids or to school and the fucking frame cracks in half.

What a nightmare. Car has been in family since new.

»www.arfc.org/complaints/2002/hon···lem.aspx

Absolutely agree with you!

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

reply to M A R S

Sorry about that. Good luck with Honda stepping up to the plate. They didn't with their transmissions for quite a long time.

I've said since the beginning of time Hondas are nothing special. Just junk like everyone else.


rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

4 edits
reply to M A R S

Be glad you dont own a ford and live in NEWYORK. I know its above the ac drain. But dont underestimate how much all that salt helped it along. Both newyork and new jersey are on my do not buy from list. followed by ohio and pa. Here is a example of what you get from the same site for a ford ranger »www.arfc.org/complaints/1997/for···lem.aspx . One common thing about rot is most of the complaints come from the same states where they use a lot of salt. a 14 year old vehicle from newyork rusting is hardly news. Hell its expected no matter what make.



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable

Wow rody,

Regardless of the quality or lack therof of the Rangers you linked to, it stuns me how people completely ignore the responsibility they have to keep up on basic maintenance and inspection - especially on an older vehicle.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by Cho Baka:

Wow rody,

Regardless of the quality or lack therof of the Rangers you linked to, it stuns me how people completely ignore the responsibility they have to keep up on basic maintenance and inspection - especially on an older vehicle.

+1

It's called "wash the vehicle" and does wonders to remove salt. The automatic bays with the under-body wash are the best.


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to M A R S

i need to get rid of this car, how can i sell it like this? And at this point in time a fear tranny issues too. Its not slipping its just a hard down shift to first thats getting worse. Im so angry and up set right now.



gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

You can sell it for parts, or fix it.
Dealer wants $2000 to fix it.
You might be able to get a good sub frame from a wrecking yard if you can find one that was washed frequently.
--
Let them eat FIBER!



M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1
reply to M A R S

I have been talking to a lot of people, this problem is WORSE on cars from the south because its cause by the AC drip tube and not salt on the road in the winter. I just drove the car 100+ miles today and it rides fine. Whatever.. Lots to think about.



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to M A R S

Living in the northeast near the ocean im surprised its not worse than that. Have to wash the underside of the car regularly! Cant blame the manufacturer for owner negligence.
--
Professional student pilot!


HarryH3

join:2005-02-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

said by Bruschi:

Living in the northeast near the ocean im surprised its not worse than that. Have to wash the underside of the car regularly! Cant blame the manufacturer for owner negligence.

Please do explain how owner negligence resulted in only ONE spot on the entire car rusting? Seems to me that if negligence was the issue then the entire car would be a perforated rust-bucket.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable
reply to M A R S

I should clarify that when I spoke of owner negligence, I was primarily referring to the Ford Rangers that were linked to as a comparison.

Most of the catastrophic failures, including rust related failures in those vehicles (averaging 15 years old), should have been caught during regular maintenance.

I am not suggesting any type of maintenance is required to stop a subframe/frame from rotting out prematurely. I am just stating that the owner has a responsibility to monitor the condition of their vehicle.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1

said by Cho Baka:

I am just stating that the owner has a responsibility to monitor the condition of their vehicle.

The majority of people dont and even less look underneath.
--
Professional student pilot!


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

4 edits
reply to M A R S

I looked the entire car over again, i found a tiny bit of rust on the rear wheel well and that rust on the frame. Thats it.

I wonder if i can some how patch this hole as it has not gone beyond the top. The spot now that it is cleaned out is about the size of a credit card long and about 3/4 wide. As i say there is no rust on the inside or the under side of this area. All the other rust is just surface.

said by Bruschi:

Living in the northeast near the ocean im surprised its not worse than that. Have to wash the underside of the car regularly! Cant blame the manufacturer for owner negligence.

Dude, this is THE ONLY RUST SPOT ON THE FRAME. Right below the AC drip hose. This is not "owner negligence" Also is 18 miles near the ocean?

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to rody_44

CT as well. I think a big issue in the Northeastern and southern New England states is the type of winter weather they get. While somewhere like Maine gets a lot more purely snow. CT and the Mid Atlantic states get the wonderful gift of "Mixed precipitation" that commonly includes freezing rain. as such they now do this presalting thing were they coat the roads with brine before the storm and then salt like hell during.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



fartness
computersoc dot com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
reply to M A R S

In the winter, how often would you get a car wash with under-spray?



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to M A R S

said by M A R S:

Dude, this is THE ONLY RUST SPOT ON THE FRAME. Right below the AC drip hose. This is not "owner negligence" Also is 18 miles near the ocean?

Unless your ac is on at all times please dont try to blame this on an ac tube. A car with that low miles in the northeast how many times do you run the ac a year? very little. 18 miles is near the ocean btw.
--
Professional student pilot!


M A R S
Premium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
kudos:1

Just an FYI, when you turn the defroster on in a Honda Accord the AC COMES ON EVERY TIME no matter what you have the temp set at.

And how would you explain the only rust one the sub frame is right below that tube.

Also this car spent 85% of its life in Sartoga Springs NY as a summer car. The 4X4 was used in the winter months. Oh it also gets hot up there too. Trust me. Im sure that's not near the ocean.



fartness
computersoc dot com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

In the winter when you DID drive it, how often would you get a car wash with under-spray?



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Bruschi

said by Bruschi:

The majority of people dont and even less look underneath.

Right, but they are responsible for having it serviced, including chassis and suspension inspection.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Cogeco Cable
reply to fartness

said by fartness:

In the winter, how often would you get a car wash with under-spray?

While salt may have exacerbated this concern, I don't think it is fair to blame M A R S for the current problem.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to M A R S

Did you not look where most of the people are from in your link. Its the salt states. I dont use automatic car washes after storms. I simply pull into a car wash with a wand and spray the underneath. leaving the salt attached to the vehicle isnt good at all when any moisture gets on it. I dont mind spraying the underneath after a storm but i also dont like using a automatic car wash after a storm and freezing weather.


rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to Cho Baka

Actually i linked on the ranger only to show any car is going to have rot complaints in some states. Not to point out the lack of quality of the ranger. While salt is awful brine is supposed to be even worse when it comes to causing rust.



fartness
computersoc dot com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside
reply to Cho Baka

I never blamed him. I'm just asking him a question that he has not answered.

rody, I was reading through that site and everyone's whining about issues that were caused by salt. Imagine all the people who live in the north and aren't whining. I'm not having any issues here with a 2001 Ranger like everyone else is posting for 2001, and I live in NY too. I get way more snow than the OP. Wash the underside of the vehicle once or twice a week in the winter and it does wonders. Sure there's some rust here and there, but it's expected. I'm sure my new 2012 car will not have nearly as much rust as the Ranger does in 11 years since I'm making sure I keep up on the washes religiously.


Zach1
Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota
reply to rody_44

said by rody_44:

Actually i linked on the ranger only to show any car is going to have rot complaints in some states. Not to point out the lack of quality of the ranger. While salt is awful brine is supposed to be even worse when it comes to causing rust.

Around here, calcium chloride brine is used. Not only is calcium chloride more corrosive than sodium chloride, it is also hygroscopic so this shit is a gift that keeps giving until it's thoroughly washed off. I read a list of states to avoid....add Minnesota to that list! I've got a 2000 F-350 w/285K on the clock (bought new in '99) that is beginning to show it's age but, with regular wintertime cleaning with the pressure washer, is still in good shape. Others in the area are rife with cancer.

More on topic...

The truck mentioned above and my 2003 as well have had the A/C condensate drain positioned to drip on the passenger side leaf spring shackle. The constant squeaking of the leaf spring due to the rust caused by the condensate called this bit of stupidity to my attention
--
Zach

Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Bruschi

said by Bruschi:

said by M A R S:

Dude, this is THE ONLY RUST SPOT ON THE FRAME. Right below the AC drip hose. This is not "owner negligence" Also is 18 miles near the ocean?

Unless your ac is on at all times please dont try to blame this on an ac tube. A car with that low miles in the northeast how many times do you run the ac a year? very little. 18 miles is near the ocean btw.

Having grown up in Southwestern CT and now living in NJ, I can say in the Northeast the AC is used very frequently once summer hits.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA
reply to fartness

That was my point. Spray the salt and brine off and you wont have these problems. Let it sit anywhere and everytime any moisture hiits it it gets activated again. Its not limited to any type or part of a vehicle.