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cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to bcool

Re: R-30 to R-38 in attic

said by bcool:

House is 1365 sq.ft.
957 sq.ft. sits on top of unconditioned crawl space
408 sq.ft. sits over (partially finished) basement.

If there is no insulation in the floor and you're only spending $500 then do the ~1000 sqft of uninsulated floor first - that will give you the best bang for the buck. You're likely to lose 2-3 times more heat through the floor than through the ceiling. Increasing the amount of insulation in the ceiling will eventually pay off, but not as fast as fixing the biggest losses.
BTW are your floors cold to the touch in winter?


bcool
Premium
join:2000-08-25
The Ozarks

Yes, the floors are cold to the touch during winter. I have a hunch, though, that doing 1000 sq.ft of floor is going to cost me way more than $500?



bcool
Premium
join:2000-08-25
The Ozarks
reply to 35245635

said by 35245635:

said by bcool:

I'm assuming added insulation in attic will also reduce A/C (cooling) cost even if by small percentage? Or are we talking heating only here?

It helps both. Look at it this way. If it costs you $100 a month for heat or A/C per month so say $1,200 a year. If this insulation saves you say 4% it would take you 10 years to pay for it. After that it is pure profit. If it saves you 8% now it only takes 5 years to pay for itself. If your bills average more then $1,200 a year you save faster. If you plan to be in the house more then 5-7 years it a no brainer to add the insulation. Don't forget it will also be a selling point if you ever want to sell. You can say the house has upgraded insulation. It may or may not help but it can't hurt.



One thing I did not bring up in this discussion. We've concentrated on the finite math and savings to energy bill. The topic is comfort.
This winter (which have been moderate for last few years here) there's been a slight chill in the living room and hall way just enough to make sitting on couch uncomfortable without a small "blanket" of some sort. Thermostat set at 71 F for winter.
I understand that insulating floor would go long way but that is likely to be more than my budget could stand here and now.


35245635

join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA
reply to bcool

said by bcool:

Yes, the floors are cold to the touch during winter. I have a hunch, though, that doing 1000 sq.ft of floor is going to cost me way more than $500?

I'd guess $1,000 to $1,300 for the floors. You get a tax credit of 10% off up to $500 also to help. It sounds like doing both would pay for themselves in a few years.

Another option is get in someone to do an energy audit with thermal imaging. They'll tell you where you are losing heat then you'll know where to throw your money.
--
"Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others." - Winston Churchill


bcool
Premium
join:2000-08-25
The Ozarks
reply to bcool

I'm sorry to belabor this issue....

but maybe it would be smarter to leave attic alone for the time being and put money toward doing floor @ R-25 batt or something like that, right?



35245635

join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA

said by bcool:

I'm sorry to belabor this issue....

but maybe it would be smarter to leave attic alone for the time being and put money toward doing floor @ R-25 batt or something like that, right?

Normally you'd use R-30 for the floor. A roll covers about 30 sq. ft. so you'd be looking at $525 plus tax for a DIY install on the floor. After the 10% rebate you should be around $500 in just materials. Normally they charge about the same price in labor as materials so I'd guess $600 for installation. Honestly you could install the floor insulation yourself in a day. If you DIY the floor and pay them to do the ceiling you should be around $1,000 for both.
--
"Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others." - Winston Churchill


bcool
Premium
join:2000-08-25
The Ozarks

Ok. Good. thanks all.



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to bcool

What is the floor covering? If it is carpet, that is worth an R3 0r R4

R25 in the basement is overkill with such a small temperature difference between the basement (66*) and the living space (71*).

Nice thing about the basement is it can be a DIY project and you can chip away at it. Get a roll or two of R19 (or R13 ) insulation each month. You can get a 50ft^2 roll for about $18.00. So if you do 2 rolls a month, most of the house will be done by next winter.

If it were me, I would do the attic first as it will give you the most savings due to the temperature differential between the attic and the ceiling. In the winter and summer there is a 50* difference between the attic and the living space. That is a lot of load. Attic will also benefit you for heating and cooling.

Basement insulation will only benefit you for the heating season and will not really save that much as there is only a 5* difference between the areas.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.



35245635

join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA

1 edit
reply to bcool

Click for full size
Our basement ceiling isn't insulated. Our's is almost exactly what pende_tim said. We keep the living space at 71 and the basement stays around 67. I've had 2 energy audits by different companies over the last 2 1/2 years and both recommended against insulating the basement ceiling. Not sure why but I had them do the attic space last year. It was around R-19 to R-22 and they took it up to R-50 to R-52. That was the most they could install. It cost about $1,000 after utility and tax rebates. So far I've calculated we saved about 300 gallons of heating oil. That's about $1,100 in heating oil so for us insulating the attic was a 1 year return on investment.

Edit: Attached my job from last year. The cellulose quantities are the square feet they installed. You can see it's about $1.38 per sq. ft. for 9 inches of cellulose before rebates and incentives.
--
"Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others." - Winston Churchill


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to bcool

said by bcool:

I have a hunch, though, that doing 1000 sq.ft of floor is going to cost me way more than $500?

Not quite...
»www.lowes.com/pd_177781-1722-B39···rating|1
$15.65 for 31.25 sqft
You do the math
And then you can get some federal tax credits on top of it.
Sure you'll have to add some staples and a couple of plastic sheet rolls to that but still...


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

said by aurgathor:

Given the R-13 walls and uninsulated floors, it is probably not worth to beef up the insulation over the ceiling.

Sounds like you are saying that if I am wearing shorts and sandals then there is no reason to put a cap on my head.

A more proper comparison would be that you're wearing a sandal, shorts, a shirt, and a knit cap, and to feel better, you want a fur cap.

Furthermore, I also had a "however" section.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


35245635

join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA
reply to bcool

"According to the DOE, basement wall insulation is preferable to basement ceiling insulation. Basement wall insulation offers fewer opportunities for air leakage because basement ceilings contain wiring, piping and plumbing. The DOE says basement wall insulation also requires less insulation, reduces heat loss through the foundation, reduces potential for condensation on basement surfaces and protects the foundation from the heat-thaw cycle effects."

In an ideal world you could insulate the basement walls not the ceiling aka floor.
--
"Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others." - Winston Churchill