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morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Optional

Re: affordable router to handle 150/10?

For me its partially a power concern partially i just would rather not use a pc for a router though i do have a Nice b/g/n card i could toss in my old case and it already has a pair of gigabit i still don;t particularly want to use it as a router.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada
reply to RMerlin

said by RMerlin:

Unlike their Ralink-based devices (like the RT-N56U), there isn't that much HW offloading on the RT-N66U.

...

I think the RT-N16 also has that same module, provided you use a recent firmware (both routers now share the same code base).

said by RMerlin:

BTW, without CTF, the RT-N66U WAN routing caps at around 200 Mbits based on some user tests. So I would expect the RT-N16 to also be able to break 100 Mbits if that module gets loaded, unless Broadcom hid some N66/AC66-specific magic in there. Gotta love closed source code...

Hi RMerlin,

What does this mean, performance-wise between the 56u and the 66u? Are you suggesting that the 56u is a better performer with QoS running?

Also, re: RT-N16: So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that if I retested with the newest Asus firmware, as opposed to the 2 year old TomatoUSB that I am currently running, I would see better results? More specifically, would I be able to exceed 150mbps?... If so, that would mean I could keep the existing router and save myself a few bucks when I upgrade to 150/10...


RMerlin

join:2009-10-09
Montreal, QC

said by Doeboye:

Hi RMerlin,

What does this mean, performance-wise between the 56u and the 66u? Are you suggesting that the 56u is a better performer with QoS running?

Also, re: RT-N16: So if I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that if I retested with the newest Asus firmware, as opposed to the 2 year old TomatoUSB that I am currently running, I would see better results? More specifically, would I be able to exceed 150mbps?... If so, that would mean I could keep the existing router and save myself a few bucks when I upgrade to 150/10...

Not sure, as I don't have an RT-N56U to test, and most benchmarks/reviews are also dating back to the older pre-Asuswrt firmware. But third party firmwares like Padavan do have a good list of Ralink-specific optimization options available, and these might not be incompatible with QoS unlike their Broadcom-based routers.

RT-N16: there's a good chance that running an up-to-date version of Asuswrt (or Asuswrt-Merlin) might give you better performance than Tomato. I'd say it's worth a try for sure, I can't tell for sure because once again most benchmarks are dated back to much older firmwares.

Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada

said by RMerlin:

RT-N16: there's a good chance that running an up-to-date version of Asuswrt (or Asuswrt-Merlin) might give you better performance than Tomato. I'd say it's worth a try for sure, I can't tell for sure because once again most benchmarks are dated back to much older firmwares.

I'll definitely give this a try! I'm very curious to see if my WAN to LAN numbers go up!

Regarding the newest version of Asuswrt-merlin, you show it as beta for the RT-N16. Is it because the regular Asuswrt firmware (3.0.0.4.354) is also beta (issues with 3G/4g USB), or is it other issues that have been introduced?

Thanks!


Optional

join:2012-02-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Optional

I'm just a rank 4 nerd guys.. I dont know how to make my extra computer a router. It's not even reliable seeing as the psu is dying, it shuts off sometimes.

That asus n900 is a good bet yes? Everywhere I look people are drooling over it, it must be good.



RMerlin

join:2009-10-09
Montreal, QC
reply to Doeboye

said by Doeboye:

I'll definitely give this a try! I'm very curious to see if my WAN to LAN numbers go up!

Regarding the newest version of Asuswrt-merlin, you show it as beta for the RT-N16. Is it because the regular Asuswrt firmware (3.0.0.4.354) is also beta (issues with 3G/4g USB), or is it other issues that have been introduced?

Thanks!

This build includes a new wireless driver. Currently the RT-N66U driver has serious stability issues on the 5 GHz band - no idea if the RT-N16 might also be affected on its 2.4 GHz band. I'd recommend staying with 270.26b for now, the last stable version.

Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada

said by RMerlin:

This build includes a new wireless driver. Currently the RT-N66U driver has serious stability issues on the 5 GHz band - no idea if the RT-N16 might also be affected on its 2.4 GHz band. I'd recommend staying with 270.26b for now, the last stable version.

Will do!

Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada
reply to RMerlin

Update!

So, once the wife went to bed, I logged into my Asus RT-N16, flashed it with the latest stable version of AsusWRT-Merlin (270.26b), and re-hooked up my test WAN-LAN setup.

Same wiring/switch/ etc.

Here's the a link to my previous findings using TomatoUSB:
»Re: affordable router to handle 150/10?

Frankly, I could not believe the difference!

WAN to LAN used to be (TomatoUSB Firmware):
WAN to LAN: 11-13000 KB/s (86 - 101 mbps)
LAN to WAN: 12-15000 KB/s (94 -117 mbps)

WAN to LAN now (AsusWRT-Merlin Firmware):
WAN to LAN: 32-33000 KB/s (256 - 264 mbps)
LAN to WAN: 22-23000 KB/s (176 -184 mbps)

Unbelievable! Looks like this HW Acceleration feature really does something. I turned on QoS (Which seems to disable HW Acceleration), and my transfer rates dropped to around (actually a bit less) what I got using TomatoUSB...

So, conclusion: Guess I might be returning the new RT-N66U I just bought! . This router is now more than sufficient for the new 150/10 package we are going to be seeing (Assuming you don't care about QoS)!

Thanks RMerlin for the heads up on the firmware!

I honestly wouldn't have believed the difference if I didn't see it myself (and transferred files back and forth for a couple of hours).


technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2

How much was WAN to LAN and LAN to WAN with QoS on? I just can't fathom it being more than 100mbps; if you have time please do post it, I would really like to see the results with QoS.


simsin0

join:2008-01-06
reply to Optional

so is there any benefit for me to flash my rt-n16 from tomato-toastmanUSB to Merlin?

I only have 15/1 and plan to change to 50/10


Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada
reply to technocar2

said by technocar2:

How much was WAN to LAN and LAN to WAN with QoS on? I just can't fathom it being more than 100mbps; if you have time please do post it, I would really like to see the results with QoS.

It was definitely not over 100mbps. I didn't do enough transfers to give a 100% solid number, but I'd be comfortable saying I was getting a minimum of 65mbps, and average of around 70-75mbps, and an occasional spike in the low 90s...

Doeboye

join:2006-11-07
Canada
reply to simsin0

said by simsin0:

so is there any benefit for me to flash my rt-n16 from tomato-toastmanUSB to Merlin?

I only have 15/1 and plan to change to 50/10

50mbps is still well below my previous maximums (around 100), so it won't cure any bottleneck-type issues you may have been having from too fast a WAN connection.

Some pluses:

1. The gui is slick (and not in a bad way with a bunch of gaudy bells and whistles. Surprisingly well done)

2. The extra 'capacity' might help with things like torrenting or multi-device simultaneous usage...

3. Going from TomatoUSB anyways, I have gained the ability to set up a guest network. I never used the stock firmware with this router, so I don't know if that was standard, but I never had the option with TomatoUSB. I see that as being quite handy for visitors so I don't have to go through the song and dance of passing them my 63 character pass code .

There may also be more features I haven't seen yet ... Perhaps RMerlin can weigh in if he's around. He is certainly the authority on this firmware.

Personally, from what I have seen, I would make the switch, irrespective of the firmware you are currently running. Super easy process as well. Just loaded the new firmware through the upgrade input box in Tomato. Took a couple of minutes to flash, rebooted, and away I went (Note: Read the upgrade doc before doing your own, just in case!).

[EDIT] Caveat: I only played with the firmware for a bit last night. Certainly not a comprehensive examination. My goal initially was to test pure transfer speeds, and that is where I spent the bulk of my time.


RMerlin

join:2009-10-09
Montreal, QC
reply to simsin0

said by simsin0:

so is there any benefit for me to flash my rt-n16 from tomato-toastmanUSB to Merlin?

I only have 15/1 and plan to change to 50/10

Fewer features in my firmware (I focus on tweaking the original Asus firmware rather than providing a major overhaul with tons of features that not everybody might need), but as pointed out you will get better throughput overall. Pretty much a matter of personal preferences. Tomato's biggest strength IMHO is its QoS capabilities (especially when looking at Toastman's build, for instance).


clarknova

join:2010-02-23
Grande Prairie, AB
kudos:7
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Doeboye

Click for full size
said by Doeboye:

3. Going from TomatoUSB anyways, I have gained the ability to set up a guest network.

TomatoUSB is a bit dated. Shibby's (and some other active) builds provide this ability with the addition of the Virtual Wireless page under the Advanced menu.

Intriguing to see the results of Merlin's firmware and higher throughput. How is it that the Tomato devs aren't using the same CTF functionality?
--
db


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Optional

Tomato happens to be the only firmware I ever managed to actually get QoS working on too, for that matter

I haven't looked into QoS for years, but my last experience was that UI designers generally did an atrocious job when it came to QoS. There is actually very little information that is required to get a good QoS setup going from the "what information can we not possibly get anywhere but the human", but most QoS interfaces in third party firmware do little more than offer a thin veneer over one of the QoS implementations in the low-level networking system. As soon as I start having to read MAN pages to figure out how to set up QoS on my home router, you've failed utterly as a UI designer.

There's a lot of room for letting the user pick what's important to them without resorting to either extremes, be they the "single checkbox to make games lag less" approach or the "let's expose the user to low-level CBQ configuration" approach.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


snark

join:2013-04-05
canada
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Optional

Don't buy ASUS, I have the RT-N56U which is one of the fanciest they make and I'm unhappy with it. If I could do it again I would get the fanciest linksys (should get it for ~100 or so on sale) or something that can be flashed with the open source firmwares floating around (high end dlink?). And get something with dual simultaneous 2.4 and 5ghz bands, even if you don't think you'll need it. You might be surprised.

IMO the ultimate solution would be building a small dedicated machine that could run pfsense. But that would be more than $200, not less.



random

@teksavvy.com

>If I could do it again I would get the fanciest linksys

FYI: Cisco sold off their Linksys division to Belkin. »www.zdnet.com/belkin-completes-l···0012692/


technocar2

join:2009-05-29
Brampton, ON
kudos:2
reply to snark

said by snark:

IMO the ultimate solution would be building a small dedicated machine that could run pfsense. But that would be more than $200, not less.

A refurbished dell OptiPlex with 3GHz core 2 duo CPU with tons of RAM can be had for about $100 (it would come with a 1Gbps NIC); all that would be needed is a second 1Gbps NIC; so add another $20. I can't imagine a situation where it can cost more than $150 yet a lot more powerful than even a $200 router.

mario9999998

join:2000-08-25
Canada

Extreme overkill. You can get away with something even older (and cheaper). I have a 1.86 Core2Duo laptop with 2GB RAM running m0n0wall and I don't hit over 5% CPU utilization.

Getting something used/older would leave more room to spend on a wireless AP/router ($65 for the TP-Link N750) and/or a switch (5-port gigE around $20-25).



RMerlin

join:2009-10-09
Montreal, QC
reply to clarknova

said by clarknova:

Intriguing to see the results of Merlin's firmware and higher throughput. How is it that the Tomato devs aren't using the same CTF functionality?

Too many Tomato features would force CTF to be disabled as they are incompatible. And since CTF is closed-source, it's hard to tell what's compatible and what isn't. So TB decided a few years ago to drop CTF from the Tomato mainline. I think some variants still list the option to enable it, but it doesn't actually do anything.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to Doeboye

said by Doeboye:

3. Going from TomatoUSB anyways, I have gained the ability to set up a guest network. I never used the stock firmware with this router, so I don't know if that was standard, but I never had the option with TomatoUSB. I see that as being quite handy for visitors so I don't have to go through the song and dance of passing them my 63 character pass code .

There is no point in having a 63 chars long password since it gets hashed down to 256bits anyway, so anything much beyond 43 "base64" characters (258bits) is mostly unnecessary entropy, give maybe another 3-4 characters to account for the fact that you aren't making perfectly random use of those characters if you are forming words/phrases/sentences.

Once your password's effective bit length is longer than the hash that represents it, there is no point to it beyond completing an easier-to-remember phrase.

Personally, I won't be losing sleep over my 25 characters alphanumeric phrase with oddly placed punctuations... the chances of finding a match are already only 1 in ~1E36. By the time someone cracks it (assuming someone even is trying), I will have moved to a new apartment long before then unless they got lucky... and the likelihood of getting lucky is pretty much the same regardless of how "strong" your pass-phrase is.