dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
16561
share rss forum feed


obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

LED bulbs v incandescent

I'm not a huge fan of the LED bulbs but there seems to be more of a variety on the shelves now. One that that has always stumped me however, is whether you can use a lower wattage LED in a regular incandescent bulb fixture. By that, I mean, for a fixture that says the maximum light bulb wattage is 100 watts, if I were to buy the brightest LED bulb that only uses 15 watts but gives off lumens of 150 watts, can I use it in my light fixture or is not safe? Or is it because my fixtures are old and therefore made before LEDs came out?



shdesigns
Powered By Infinite Improbabilty Drive
Premium
join:2000-12-01
Stone Mountain, GA

The wattage rating maximum is for dissipated heat and/or current. If you use a 15 watt LED in a fixture rated for 100 watts, then it will get 1/6th as hot as an incandescent.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

Or to answer the original question directly, yes you can use a higher equivalent wattage rated bulb that exceeds the rating of the socket or appliance.

If you are looking more light, don't look specifically at wattage, look at the number of lumens the bulb produces. Almost all light bulbs should have that rating on the label similar to a nutrition label on food.



tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting
reply to obeythelaw

The fixture wattage rating is determined by the amount of heat generated by an incandescent bulb, CFL and LED bubs are much more efficient so they generate much less heat.

However, both CFL and LED bulbs use active electronics making bulb position important so waste heat can be dissipated. This makes inverted position fixtures a potential problem if they trap heat. CFL and LEDs are more efficient but still dump energy as waste heat that needs to be dissipated.

/tom



dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to obeythelaw

Watts ratings are the same so yes you can use a lower watt bulb in a higher rated socket.

The thing with LEDs to watch out for is dimmable.... if the circuit has a dimmer on it make sure you use a dimmable led bulb... otherwise you will fry the LED bulb and that $25 20 year bulb will be dead in minutes



rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
Premium
join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi
reply to obeythelaw


I just bought two new fixtures and they told me "Do not exceed a 100 watt incandescent light bulb, or a 26watt SBCFL"



obeythelaw
Premium
join:2003-04-16
Bayonne, NJ
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to obeythelaw

That's good to know. It appears that the 20 plus watt LED bulbs give off the most light when measured in Lumens. That is really what I am concerned about is lighting up rooms in lamps or ceiling fixtures. Unfortunately, my house is about 40 years old and there are no high hat lights and have to rely on lamps or single ceiling light fixture. The LED bulbs that give off the max light usually are relatively low in wattage. Usually, at most, 26 watts.



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to shdesigns

said by shdesigns:

If you use a 15 watt LED in a fixture rated for 100 watts, then it will get 1/6th as hot as an incandescent.

It's not quite that cut and dry. The waste heat output of a LED screw in replacement light bulb most certainly is not directly equivalent to that of a standard incandescent. You can't simply go by the wattage because "some" of that power is being turned in to light and "some" will be dissipated as heat. Without knowing these variables you can't make an assessment. The semiconductors and transformers in LED bulbs generate substantial waste heat and the exact amount varies accross manufacturing techniques and technologies.

That being said, given the typical 5% efficiency of an incandescent bulb, it's probably safe.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

The fixture wattage rating is determined by the amount of heat generated by an incandescent bulb,

how much electricity is used.

the equivalent rating is based on how bright the LED or CFL is compared to the wattage an Incandecent bulb sith equavalent wattage..
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to pike

said by pike:

said by shdesigns:

If you use a 15 watt LED in a fixture rated for 100 watts, then it will get 1/6th as hot as an incandescent.

It's not quite that cut and dry. The waste heat output of a LED screw in replacement light bulb most certainly is not directly equivalent to that of a standard incandescent. You can't simply go by the wattage because "some" of that power is being turned in to light and "some" will be dissipated as heat. Without knowing these variables you can't make an assessment. The semiconductors and transformers in LED bulbs generate substantial waste heat and the exact amount varies accross manufacturing techniques and technologies.

That being said, given the typical 5% efficiency of an incandescent bulb, it's probably safe.

its not just the fixture, but also the wiring.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA

1 recommendation

reply to obeythelaw

Yeah, we have to get away from looking at wattage and figuring out what the equivalent lumens are.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2

said by bobrk:

Yeah, we have to get away from looking at wattage and figuring out what the equivalent lumens are.

Exactly. And different bulbs are better in one situation than another. However, after changing all my lights to LED's, I cut my hydro bill by 30% month over month.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to obeythelaw

What's safe and what is not is rather tricky when you use a bulb other than incandescent.

Incandescent bulbs are very simple, very tolerant of heat, inherently self regulating (if the filament gets hotter its resistance increases which leads to decreased current and less heat generation) and if they do fail, they normally fail as an open circuit that stops working altogether.

LED/CFL bulbs on the other hand contains electronics that are heat sensitive, certain components may be probe to thermal runaway, and failure modes can include nasty ones like catching fire.
Because of these, fixtures cannot be well insulated -- they need to be able to take away enough heat so that the temperature of the LED/CFL bulbs cannot go too high.

Because CFL/LED lights generate much less heat, bulbs that output the same amount of light as incandescent are *usually* safe in the same fixtures. If in doubt, look for fixtures that contain ratings for CFL bulbs, or employ a bit of common sense.
--
Wacky Races 2012!



SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

reply to bobrk

said by bobrk:

Yeah, we have to get away from looking at wattage and figuring out what the equivalent lumens are.

The word is efficacy and demonstrated here in a graph. This happens to be for down lights but it gives you the idea. lm/W




»cool.conservation-us.org/byorg/u···leds.pdf

tschmidt See Profile and aurgathor See Profile explained why there is a heat problem.
--
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley

"omne ignotum pro magnifico."


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting

said by SparkChaser:

The word is efficacy and demonstrated here in a graph. This happens to be for down lights but it gives you the idea. lm/W

Interesting chart, I had assumed LED would fare much better in downright compared to CFL since they are so directional, but there seems to be a lot of overlap.

/tom


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to bobrk

said by bobrk:

Yeah, we have to get away from looking at wattage and figuring out what the equivalent lumens are.

That's part of the problem these days. Everyone is so used to buying lightbulbs by wattage they really don't know how many lumens they need. One needs to happen is that a requirement that output lumens needs to be displayed prominently on the packaging of each new bulb (color temperature would also be handy). People and could refer to a chart showing that their old conventional bulbs produced and determine what replacement to use. Even now, some manufacturers claim that they are a replacement for a 40 W bulb and that output ranges from 350 lm of to almost 500 lm! There certainly needs to be some type of standard.


Pacomartin

join:2013-03-18
Bethlehem, PA
Reviews:
·RCN CABLE

My brother had one 15 Amp circuit in his 80 year old house with 9 electrical outlets and 5 built in overhead lights, plus one track light. I urged him to put in LED bulbs and throw out his wife's electric hair dryer so the circuit couldn't be overloaded.

But that situation aside, it seems to me that LED bulbs are ridiculously expensive. For situations where you care about the quality of the light, this new generation of halogen incandescent bulbs seems more intelligent than LEDs. If you are replacing a traditional 100 Watt bulb, these new halogens use about 72 Watts and are roughly twice the price.

They don't have the extreme energy savings of the 26 Watt CFL (but also none of the issues(long startup time, lousy color), and while on paper a $30 LED bulb may save you money over the next decade, that is just to long of a payback time for me. The new halogen bulbs were designed to just barely meet the energy objectives of the new laws.


Oedipus

join:2005-05-09
kudos:1
reply to obeythelaw

I recently picked up a couple of these and I've been very pleased with them:

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991774?···WidgetID


pandora
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:2
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Comcast
·Future Nine Corp..

1 edit

said by Oedipus:

I recently picked up a couple of these and I've been very pleased with them:

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991774?···WidgetID

My local Lowes has a $10 850 lumen dimmable LED bulb using a standard socket, the bulbs use 13.5 watts per the box. These aren't the most energy efficient LED bulbs, but are inexpensive and seem to have a greater area of coverage than many other LED bulbs. These are more similar to traditional incandescent in that they seem to be less directional when lighting an area.

In our renovation, we installed 6" ceiling cans, and are using dimmable recessed LED bulbs with integrated trim kits. The same kit costs $25 at Home Depot, and $30 at Lowes. These are 13 watt 825 lumen.

In part of the addition, we needed low profile ceiling cans (due to 2 x 6 construction in the 40 year old part of the house, as opposed to 2 x 8 construction in the newer part). Home Depot was least expensive with $30 LED bulbs with integrated trim at 800 lumen's.

Outside, I picked up Par 38 floodlight bulbs for $25 each that are 22 watts and rated at 1025 lumen's. The floodlights are likely the least efficient LED in my home, but are instant on, and still use a lot less energy than incandescent. They run mostly at half power (being dimmable, the floodlights are set to half intensity unless motion is detected for 4 hours after sunset or after activation after sunset).

In some applications, CFL may be more energy efficient, though as an incandescent replacement, my preference is for LED. The high cost per LED bulb is partially offset by the estimated lifetime.
--
Congress could mess up a one piece jigsaw puzzle.
Expand your moderator at work


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to obeythelaw

Re: LED bulbs CREE @ Home Depot

Has anyone seen these at HD, yet?

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991778?···ications



35245635

join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA

1 edit

said by SparkChaser:

Has anyone seen these at HD, yet?

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991778?···ications

Haven't used them yet but checked them out yesterday while I was there. They lowered the Philips 12.5w (60w eq) to $12.97 each so I ended up getting them since it was only $3.00 each more. The Cree were $9.97 each.

»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···Id=10053
--
"Everyone has his day and some days last longer than others." - Winston Churchill


PeeWee
Premium
join:2001-10-21
Madera, CA
reply to Oedipus

Re: LED bulbs v incandescent

What are the "K" ratings? As in 2700K, and 5000K.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by PeeWee:

What are the "K" ratings? As in 2700K, and 5000K.

Degrees Kelvin. It has to do with the colour temperature of the light. More here.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


Jan Janowski
Premium
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to SparkChaser

Re: LED bulbs CREE @ Home Depot

Yes I have, BUT.... The Lumen that were written on the box is LESS than the Lumens in the AD!

I would have ignored that on this, and other Stores IF there was a side by side demonstration of incandescent and LED, but I only saw one once, at a Lowes with a $9 LED 40W equivalent... and I bought one as a "Test", and now that I find I'm happy with that bulb, Lowes no longer stocks it!!!

So I'm back in the 'hunt' again, looking for a side by side demonstration!!

said by SparkChaser:

Has anyone seen these at HD, yet?

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991778?···ications


--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle


Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to obeythelaw

Re: LED bulbs v incandescent

Jan brings up another good point with LED and CFL bulbs. It seems like there are always different brands being stocked. You find one you like and when you go back for more, they have something different. The worst part is bulbs from different manufacturers perform differently.


PX Eliezer
Morrow Project fan
Premium
join:2013-03-10
Outland
kudos:5
reply to obeythelaw

Also important:

Only certain LED's can be used in an enclosed fixture. Those LED's are labelled as such.



EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to obeythelaw

Those look like they'd be good to replace 60 watt incandescent bulbs in my porch ceiling light fixture. Not as bright as 60 watt bulbs, but I've been using 40 watt bulbs in it anyway.
--
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.



Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to SparkChaser

Re: LED bulbs CREE @ Home Depot

said by SparkChaser:

Has anyone seen these at HD, yet?

»www.homedepot.com/p/t/203991778?···ications

yes I was at the HD today and I passed by the display $12 if I remember right.


Jan Janowski
Premium
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to obeythelaw

Re: LED bulbs v incandescent

I was at Lowes today, and saw the side by side test I wanted...

LED Light looked darn good! $9.95 and right below the demo!

I was going to buy a couple of them.... and then I looked off to the right of the display... Another similarly sized LED Bulb, except this one is $24.95....

Same Physical size as the 9.95 one...

OK, WHICH is in the 'side-by-side Demo?

Looking closely at the demo, the light in there says 129ma... in teeny tiny text.

By now I'm very curious... Looked at a few of each and both have the current markings: rotated away from the opening... !!

Opened box and rotated the lamp... says 129ma.... This is the 24.95 bulb!!!

Opened box and rotated lamp on the 9.95 bulb... 70 something ma!

DAMN! Even the Demo is stacked in their favor!! The 9.95 stock is DIRECTLY UNDER the light demo, and the 24.95 lamp (as is used in the demo) is off to the side of demo... by maybe 5', and 4 other bulb types....

The light I was looking at was white on the top half, and a grey heat sink all around the bottom of the bulb, and other than the tiny current label, there is NO Discernible Difference (Other than Price) between the two lamps!

Check it out at your Lowes!
--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle