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GeorgeBurger

join:2011-12-30
kudos:2
reply to morisato

Re: VMedia Launches

What I'm saying. Thanks for the neat analysis.

GeorgeBurger

join:2011-12-30
kudos:2
reply to Gone
Yes we offer the Cogeco 20Mg service.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to GeorgeBurger
Congrats on getting your baby to stand!
However, I might be going blind, what's the site?
--
~ Project Hope ~

jfn0106

join:2012-09-16
reply to GeorgeBurger
Hi George,

Congratulations on the launch, and thanks for bringing more choices to the market. I've got a few points for you and your team to consider:

I'd echo other comments for more standalone channel choices. Specifically, I'd like to see HBO and AMC available standalone, but in general more single channel choices are better. You seem to have addressed this in a previous post, so hopefully we'll see this coming soon.

Please reconsider the multiple receiver fee of $6.95 per extra VBox (I assume per month, it's not clear on your website). Look, I don't think it's wrong to make money, but this is a perfect example of the extra fees driving me away from the incumbents in the first place. Why not make it easier for customers with lots of screens to embrace your offerings?

Perhaps you could look into making available a whole home PVR (supporting at least 3 screens) that customers could buy outright, rather than rent-only?

Oh, and one last thing...please work out a deal for carriage with Marc at Teksavvy please.

Good Luck!

GeorgeBurger

join:2011-12-30
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to EUS
www.vmedia.ca

realist123

join:2010-11-29
h0h0h0
reply to GeorgeBurger
said by GeorgeBurger:

For now our support hours are from 10 a.m. – 9:00 p.m. We are working on being able to extend hours beyond 9 p.m. Sorry we weren't there for you, please try again if you didn't leave a message.

Any help from you about what additional info beyond what is on the site and FAQs would be really great.

We are running Android 4.0.4 soon switching to Android 2.0.

The website has hours under "call us", but not under "chat". I figured it was after 9pm, but there should be note and at 9pm you should bar visitors from opening chat windows. make a popup warning or something.

As for website information, the pictures of your vbox screens are very small and I cannot figure out what the experience looks like. A video would be handy. I beta tested Bell Fibe back when it was called Bell Entertainment and they gave me 50% off the service at the time to be a guinea pig. When I signed up they had demos available to see what I was getting myself into.

I find your pricing reasonable, but without a clearer idea of what the service experience is like, it is hard to convince a consumer to spend upfront installation/time/effort for a mystery box.

Lastly, as many people have noted, I've become very reliant on my PVR, and a promise of "soon" doesn't cut it for me.

If you have it ready by late May there's a good chance I'll subscribe.

Oh, and can we root the device to add apps ourselves?


jasmo34

join:2008-03-20
London, ON
reply to GeorgeBurger
Interesting product/service... I'll have to take another look at your product when it's available in London. Maybe by then, you might allow (or be allowed to negotiate) access via another ISP 'partner'?

At least your $25 basic package includes FOX (for racing, baseball). Here in London, we do not get FOX on Basic Cable, with Rogers!

We actually came close to dumping cable TV, but we would actually miss SOME of the cable channels, including CBC (which is not available OTA in London!).

Hmmm...

Why so many CTV and CTV2 channels on Basic, which are almost duplicates of each other (at least in primetime)?

Is that just to provide some 'local news' in major centres? Is it easier to just offer them all (and make the BASIC package look bigger), instead of letting the customer choose the one or two they want?


En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
said by jasmo34:

Why so many CTV and CTV2 channels on Basic, which are almost duplicates of each other (at least in primetime)?

My theory, George most likely receives a big paycheck for distributing Bell channels. But don't worry, the CTV/CTV2 channels are free OTA stations and are not making basic service price increase.

Basic service includes 9 optional channels, 7 belongs to Bell (MuchMusic, MuchMore, TSN, TSN2, CTV News, E!, CP24), one from Corus (YTV), and one from Moses Znaimer (VisionTV).

Premium Basic contains 6 channels from Bell (Bravo, Discovery, Comedy, MTV, BNN, Space), one from Shaw (Showcase), one from Rogers (Sportsnet), and 6 american (AMC, A&E, CNN, NFL, HLN, TMC).

All of Bell's analog specialties are included with this package, leaving out Shaw Media (Slice, History, TVtropolis, Food, HGTV) and Corus (CMT, OWN, Teletoon, Treehouse, W Network). Out of balance, that doesn't seem to be fair to Bell Media's competitors.
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


Not4QC

@videotron.ca
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

Yes, my Videotron prices are TV-only. I do not have any other services from Videotron, and so do not qualify for any bundle discounts. I also have not gotten any retention deals because I haven't seen any better options from other providers yet that I can threaten them with (although I suppose I could try the "I don't watch much, cut me a deal or I'm gone" thing).

Yeah Videotron is the hardest company that exists to even get a dollar knocked off. But I got that Fee knocked off with an additional penny as you will see below.

Didn't get a chance to look at my bill till just now, this is what I see:
Basic: 17.99 (not the 25,25$, so a ~7$ rebate)
Network fee: 2.99 (Some network fee that I had a fight about)
Rebate: -3.00 (No Network fee. see the extra penny? Woot!)
A la carte 30: 32.00 even (a 25-cent rebate or something).
a la carte 30 rebate: -10.90 (Another rebate)
Total: 39.08 + tx (almost half the price you pay)

So someone above stated it came to 1$ a channel. Actually, they get ~70-cents a channel out of me and still make a high profit.

If Vmedia came to Quebec with the same channel packages I would need to get the following to make everyone here happy (that is, the same channels they want):

Vmedia
Premium Basic: 39.95
Living package: 6.95
Information package: 6.95
Movies package: 7.95
MEncore Package: 7.95
Kids package: 9.95
Knowledge package 8.95
Entertainment Package 10.95
Total: 99.60$

So yeah, 60.52$ difference. That is a very severe difference. That's the price of Videotrons 30-meg internet I would fork over every month just to get the same channels. Plus I would have to change ISP.

Anyhow, he said it would be a year from now *if* they break into the Quebec market. So that is a year to drop prices to make bundle people like me with families happy enough to want to jump. Which I doubt will ever happen.

So this is more for couples or bachelore(ettes), or students. Or for people in Ontario who don't seem to have the same pricing and quasi-a-la-carte like Quebec.

So even in your case, Guspaz, where you get no rebates at all (because you are a dissenter with a wholesaler ), you are still about 20$ ahead (in your pocket) than w/ Vmedia due to their package structure geared to the Ontario market or something.

Not worth it (in Quebec).

Now I'm going to call in to get unlimited for 10$ more and might complain about that dollar raise Videotron gave itself a month or so back and try and get two out of it


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GeorgeBurger
That is pretty sweet. The math on the $7 basic rebate is a bit off though, the $25.25 price is the price with the fees because advertising laws make them show the all-in price, while what shows up on your bill is the component price. I of memory serves, the itemized basic price on my bill is $20.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Not4QC

@videotron.ca
said by Guspaz:

That is pretty sweet. The math on the $7 basic rebate is a bit off though, the $25.25 price is the price with the fees because advertising laws make them show the all-in price, while what shows up on your bill is the component price. I of memory serves, the itemized basic price on my bill is $20.

Ah ok. It could be. No clue really. First time i looked at my bill since over a year ago. No problems or headaches so I just pay. Guess it makes both parties happy. So it works out to be about ~21$/30-chan (+ ~18$ basic subscription). Seems ok to me.

This is what any IPTV service will have to beat. And then beat it by more than enough to pull me away that would kill and ruin the discounts on phone and internet. So they would have to do a lot better than the prices I have. And what I guess many other Quebeckers have.

So even if they break into Quebec, they will only go after young people (students & bachelor(ettes)). Perhaps people not in any bundles as well. Which is what I guess they are doing in Ontario because those prices don't look bundle competitive.


En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
reply to Not4QC
By the way, guys, forget about the 1% inflated rates for LPIF, which will be eliminated in 2014.

said by Not4QC :

So someone above stated it came to 1$ a channel. Actually, they get ~70-cents a channel out of me and still make a high profit.

- Vidéotron's English package has 27 "channel selections" for 25$ : $0.926/channel
(ABC-NBC-CBS-FOX-PBS are free, TSN2 comes with TSN, Retro comes with Teletoon, MEncore2 comes with MEncore, Disney Jr comes with Family).
- Vidéotron's Telemax package has 37 "channel selections" for 30$ : $0.811/channel
- Videotron's Mega package lists 145 channels for 60$ (not gonna count channel selections here), but you figure out it's a lower rate per channel.

Yet, vmedia's whole set of package containing half of these channels without PayTV costs 99.60$. Huh. Not a way to save money here.
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


Not4QC

@videotron.ca
said by En Enfer:

Yet, vmedia's whole set of package containing half of these channels without PayTV costs 99.60$. Huh. Not a way to save money here.

yeah it's no money saver right now the way it's structured. At least not here in Quebec, or not people in bundles. No clue about Ontario.

Also, I don't know how many total channels that would be with Vmedia. I was only looking at what the kids and wife chose from the a-la-carte-30. And with those specific channels, yeah I would have to buy the Vmedia packages for 100$.

But it's a launch to get off the ground. And the basic seems to have Ontario people speaking in the TSI forum, and else-where, and they seem to want it. I also noticed a few Quebeckers who are not in bundles (ie with wholesale via TSI or Ebox) who think it's a decent deal also for 25$.

Like I said up above. It seems geared towards young people or those not in bundles. I haven't looked at the over-all pricing as you have. Just what I have here versus Vmedia.

Also, I imagine Vmedia will have to come out with their own bundle pricing. Don't know if they have this already. Double-bundle: IPTV + Net. Triple bundle: IPTV + Net + Voip. If they don't offer this already I can see them offering this within a year and pulling in customers from other wholesalers. So they have potential with their IPTV offering.

So if I was a betting man, En Enfer, because their prices are a little higher (between you and I, and here in QC anyhow), I am betting they are going to come out with bundle prices and lower that IPTV cost and scoop people up if it all pans out. At least that is what I am envisioning here.

But they really need to get rid of the packages and go a-la-carte.

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
reply to realist123
So I guess the answer is - yes the "HD" channels are only 2Mb/sec?

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to GeorgeBurger
said by GeorgeBurger:

You are absolutely right it would be, but two things, one, we will be adding our UChoose pick a pack with over 40 channels to start in a couple of weeks, and about 60 standalones, and two, you are in Quebec, which is a wholeother world because you have an all-pick a pack environment, right? For now we are not in Quebec, and we will be developing an entirely different offering for that market to be able to compete with Videotron, Bell and Cogeco there.Stay tuned.

Bell Canada in Quebec is a la carte.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to darrylr
said by darrylr:

So I guess the answer is - yes the "HD" channels are only 2Mb/sec?

That's what Vmedia's FAQ says. Yes. As Guspaz stated should be good enough.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

2 edits
reply to GeorgeBurger
downloadbourne2.mkv.zip 9,534,499 bytes
720p sample @ 2 Mbps
I said it's enough for SD, not HD... What I said was that it might be barely passable (but still at a lower quality than even Netflix 720p) using h.265, which is a next-gen codec not really currently available.

2Mbps CBR h.264 720p won't look very good...

EDIT: Upon some testing with some ABR video, though, 2Mbps won't look at that bad. Not fantastic, but passable. I'll post a sample maybe.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I suspect that in comparison to the heavily-compressed MPEG2 that cable companies deliver, it'll look fine.

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
Doubtful but I guess we'll need to hear from some guys who are used to watching quality stuff.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Cable isn't "quality stuff"


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GeorgeBurger
Well, the sample shows some pretty nasty detail loss in the first shot where the camera pulls back from the forest, but it's not so bad after that. The rain in the last shot isn't great, a lot of detail is blurred out.

I think the sample demonstrates you can get away with 2Mbps 720p, but it's not going to be any sort of "hifi" experience.

EDIT: This will look worse than cable, cable is doing much higher bitrate 1080p. Even MPEG-2 does a good enough job when it has 14x the bitrate.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Well, cable around here in Cogecoland certainly isn't doing any 1080p, let alone anything high bit rate. I suspect Rogers might be doing something like that for their VOD, but it is exceedingly doubtful that they're doing it for for every single one of their channels.

Nothing beats off-air full bitrate ATSC straight from an American network feed. The quality is instantly recognizable and blows away anything even off-air Canadian television delivers, let alone BDUs. Quite simply, it's like looking at a photograph and makes it difficult to watch anything off even Shaw Direct which has one of the better HD PQs out there for a BDU. Still, I would take the detail loss with 2Mbit/s H.264 over the incessant macroblocking that occurs with typical BDU transmissions MPEG2 high-def content any day. "Typical" cable is not 28Mbit/s, no bloody way.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GeorgeBurger
All the audiovisual details on resolutions and compression can be seen here:

»illicotech.com/NumMtl.html

It's all MPEG-2.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I saw a few that were 17, none that were 24. But yeah, those are some impressive bitrates. I believe Rogers maxes out at 8 or so at the best of times and Bell is doing 4-7 third-generation 720p on their MPEG2 channels. They used to be higher until they started cramming more channels into QAMs and transponders in the last few years.

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
Rogers is over 10. Here are some recent numbers...

»www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpos···count=98

Channel / Bitrate (mbps)

497 - Animal - 15
498 - Sci - 14
501 - SN1 - 15
506 - TSN - 19
514 - CBC - 16
525 - PBS - 10
528 - CBSW - 12
532 - PBSW - 14
534 - DW - 14
535 - NG - 12
550 - TMN - 14
563 - TCM - 10
574 - Discovery - 15
583 - CityW - 15
586 - TWN - 11

I have a hard time believing 2Mb/sec is going to look very good but to each their own.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
For what it's worth, 10 still looks like shit in MPEG2.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to GeorgeBurger
Has George confirmed the bitrate yet? All he said was 2Meg but he never said if that's for just SD or everything.

While 2Meg may be passable (you'd be surprised just how many people settle for really shitty quality pirated stuff), it certainly isn't a quality level I'd want to pay for.

1080p stuff should start off at minimum 8mb/s with H.264 imo, NetFlix's 5.8Mb/s is getting there but not really enough. The issue is the surprising number of people that still stuck on 5/6Mbps DSL.

George, the DSL 6 packaged should not be offered period with IPTV service, you're just asking for trouble. That or have a way to restrict HD if someone is only on 6Mbps.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by TypeS:

Has George confirmed the bitrate yet? All he said was 2Meg but he never said if that's for just SD or everything.

Could be minimum VBR based on available line bandwidth, too.

Fibe TV is 7Mbit/s, no?


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to GeorgeBurger
Well, for whatever reason most stuff on Videotron looks pretty bad. People generally agree that Bell is better quality, both on ExpessVu and Fibe.

Fibe is probably VC-1, though, which is similar to h.264. It has an in-loop deblocker. MPEG-2 doesn't, and so h.264 doesn't suffer from macroblocking artifacts (that part of the picture just gets less and less detailed). I think that even if you just took MPEG-2 and added an in-loop deblocker you'd see a pretty big improvement there, but of course that wouldn't be MPEG-2 anymore, and nothing would decode it.

Videotron originally promised when they launched digital HD cable that they'd only put two HD channels per QAM, giving them something like 19 Mbps each, but that idea went down the crapper due to the spectrum crunch (they still have lots of analog channels and haven't fully migrated to SDV), so now they do three.

Also of note is the list where the entire cable spectrum from 57 to 861 Mhz is broken down:

»illicotech.com/NumMtlRes.html

The west island (where my parents live) would be MGM-Montreal-Ouest, I think, while all of downtown Montreal where I live would be Montreal-A. MGM stands for, translated, "Modernization of Greater Montreal", the areas that have moved to FTTN. That apparently bought then another 12 QAMs by pushing from 789MHz to 860 MHz, and that in turn was enough for 8-channel bonded DOCSIS 3.0 (up to 200Mbps), while those of us downtown are stuck on 4-channel bonding at 60 meg.

EDIT: Also, huh, apparently we now have a CityTV Montreal as of a few months ago.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Yeah, the lack of macroblocking on MPEG4-related codecs is what makes a big difference. Even a "lower quality" stream is visually easier to deal with due to the lack of the macroblocking.

I believe Fibe TV is VC-1. Shaw Direct and Bell TV use H.264 for what isn't MPEG2.