| [Homephone] Ported number, now being charged feesWe have ported out from Bell Canada to voip.ms, and I just checked out the final bill. Bell is attempting to charge us:
-Home Phone Package 30-day notice charge 27.83
-LD Network Charge 30-day notice charge 5.10
I was aware Bell played this game before I set things in motion, but the reading I did (mainly here and on RFD) led me to believe that they only did this in unregulated service areas. I have examined the relevant tariffs and do not see anything indicating this is allowed.
The facts:
-Residential land-line, regulated exchange (NPA 705, NXX 525)
-There was originally a 1 year contract, this ended as of September 2009
-Long distance was a post-paid plan from Rogers
Can anyone fill me in on which of these charges (if any...) are valid? |
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taraf
join:2011-05-07
Stittsville, ON | »www.bell.ca/styles/common/en/all···vice.pdf
Page 10. You, presumably, didn't give them advance notice that you were going to be cancelling the service by porting out. They're within their rights to charge you 30 days of service from the date you cancelled. As that appears to be a pro-rated charge and not the full month, it seems that's exactly what they did. |
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 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:15 | The problem is, and has always been with porting, there is no way to give a notice when porting numbers...
And charging for 30 days while not providing service should be fraud.
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F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!
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| reply to avenison
Are you in Quebec? I don't think that can be done here. When I ported my Videotron number to voip.ms there were no extra charges |
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 sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to avenison
From what I remember, since you are in a Regulated exchange, Bell CANNOT charge you a cancellation fee or notice if you are on basic service. Any additional services or addition or contracted services like call display, call waiting etc can take you OFF the regulated service.
That said, the fact that it is impossible to provide 30 days notice on a port out makes Bell's position tenuous, and I would push back and if no satisfactory result go to the Office of the Ombudsman, and if that doesn't work, to the CCTS. |
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HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:15 Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
 ·TekSavvy DSL
| said by sbrook:That said, the fact that it is impossible to provide 30 days notice on a port out makes Bell's position tenuous, and I would push back and if no satisfactory result go to the Office of the Ombudsman, and if that doesn't work, to the CCTS.
Thats exactly it... One thing is if you are just cancelling, you can arrange a month before to cancel, and still have 30 days of service that you actually pay for and can use.
This should be challenged in front of the CRTC, regulated area or not.
This is nothing but a cash grab designed to penalize a leaving customer. How shit like this is allowed in a civilized and modern country is beyond me. This isn't the "market forces" working...
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F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!
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2 edits | reply to avenison
Thanks for the interest. I am still not sure what to do at this point, Bell has given me extremely little time to react (another bullying tactic in itself) as they have neglected to email me the final bill - even though I have been using paperless billing for years. I just yesterday received a paper copy - payment due by April 5th. This gives me five business days to comply (or not).
said by taraf:(link) Page 10. You, presumably, didn't give them advance notice ...] As I was not under contract, only section 21.1 of that Article should apply: Customers who give Bell Canada reasonable advance notice may
terminate their service after expiry of the minimum contract period, in which
case they must pay charges due for service which has been furnished.
said by HiVolt:The problem is, and has always been with porting, there is no way to give a notice when porting numbers...
And charging for 30 days while not providing service should be fraud.
The posts I have seen by people in unregulated exchanges indicate that they are being charged an extra month's service, but I do not believe that is the case here. Bell actually prorated my previous bill to account for the time I was not receiving service - however they have applied this balance towards these "notice fees". So out of the ~$35 they want, I now owe them $10. I am all for sticking it to them, but I have to admit that wasting my time and possibly risking my credit rating over the price of a dinner is not all that appealing.
said by Dunlop:Are you in Quebec? Nope, Ontario.
said by sbrook:From what I remember, since you are in a Regulated exchange, Bell CANNOT charge you a cancellation fee or notice if you are on basic service. Any additional services or addition or contracted services like call display, call waiting etc can take you OFF the regulated service.
That said, the fact that it is impossible to provide 30 days notice on a port out makes Bell's position tenuous, and I would push back and if no satisfactory result go to the Office of the Ombudsman, and if that doesn't work, to the CCTS.
Could you please elablorate on this? I have never heard anything about your package choices affecting whether or not your service is regulated. I was on the "Home Phone Choice" plan (5 add-on features), however I was paying the "Touch-Tone service" fee, which from what I have read indicates that it was indeed regulated.
I would be very interested to know if this is not the case, because the proven avenue of fighting these charges (the CCTS) claims that they do NOT deal with complaints about regulated services. Their FAQ states:
3. Are there some telecom complaints you can’t deal with?
Yes. We cannot accept complaints about services that are regulated by the CRTC.
Some complaints about regulated services are outside of the CCTS mandate, but can be handled by the CRTC. If you file a complaint with the CCTS that should go to the CRTC, it will be forwarded to the CRTC and you'll be notified that the complaint has been forwarded.
One thing I did find in the Regulated Service tariffs is in Part 2 - Item 90::
»www.bce.ca/aboutbce/regulatory/t···_90_____
Service Charges (General)
4. When a customer stipulates the performance of work
outside regular working hours or conditions that cause
unusual expense, an additional charge may be made
based on the additional expense incurred.
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9. A service charge does not apply for the following:
(a) Repair work.
(b) The removal of service and/or facilities except as
stated in 4. above.
»www.bce.ca/aboutbce/regulatory/t···227_____
2. Terms and Conditions - continued
(m) Customers must provide a minimum of 30 days notice
to disconnect Home Phone Choice Package. Customers who
cancel their subscription without providing at least 30 days
notice will be charged a pro-rated monthly rate based on 30
days, less the number of days from the date of notification, at
the Company's discretion. The 30-day notification period
will not be required for customers migrating to another
Company-provided residential wireline service or to Bell
Digital Voice. |
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4 Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
| Yes, if you have been paying Touch Tone Fee, this is a regulated fee, so you had a regulated line, but if you had non-regulated services associated with the line, you may be considered to have been unregulated. e.g. Call messaging etc. I got a letter from Bell several years back on this one because we were in a regulated area just outside Ottawa. It is definitely a crazy situation. I can't find an online reference.
Another way to be sure is if you weren't paying a Network LD fee to use other LD providers, but it seems you were paying the network charge ... so this is NOT a regulated line!
Whatever way around it is, Bell is scamming you! |
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| said by sbrook:Another way to be sure is if you weren't paying a Network LD fee to use other LD providers Which fee would that be? Here's the list of monthly charges:
1 - Home Phone Choice package........ 43.98
Residence line
Call Forwarding
3 Way Calling
Visual Call Waiting
Call Answer English
1 - Service Area Charge........ 0.00
1 - Network Charge........ 6.95
1 - 15¢ a Minute Long Distance........ 0.00
1 - 911 emergency service access........ 0.17
1 - Touch-Tone service........ 2.80
So if you meant that the service would be regulated if I wasn't paying a fee to Bell, then that looks like it's the case? On the other hand the Rogers Long Distance bills also have a monthly System Access fee ($5.95). |
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4 | reply to avenison
Network Charge ... 6.95
When I was on a regulated service with YAK LD, there was no network charge |
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| So I was regulated because I paid Touch-Tone, and also unregulated because I paid the Network Charge. I get it now! 
Tentative plan of action as follows:
1. Call and request charges dropped and balance refunded.
2. After being denied, go online and pay the $10 as a show of good faith to whichever entity will be reviewing the case, likewise preventing the "debt" being sent to a collection agency.
3. File with CCTS, wait for them to declare it regulated service and forward it to the CRTC, who will eventually declare it unregulated service and drop the case without notifying me.
4. Become a bitter old man who still tells this story 50 years from now. |
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sbrookPremium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:4 | The other clue that this is a non-regulated service is that they called it Home Phone and not Residential Line. |
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 nitzguyPremium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
·TekSavvy DSL
| said by sbrook:The other clue that this is a non-regulated service is that they called it Home Phone and not Residential Line.
Its Sudbury, Ontario...I'm pretty sure we are not in a regulated exchange because there is more than 1 provider that can provide choice to the consumer and Bell doesn't hold their 95% or whatever share of the market.
So, unfortunately OP...you're going to be super screwed by BCE one last time...
Everyone in Sudbury paid the touch-tone charge...Heck everyone in Sudbury who was with Bell anyway, paid whatever that ridiculous charge was for 3 years to offset "revenue loss" for businesses or consumers calling within the Same city...
I'm sure if people in oh lets say because I know the areas....if it was a long distance from Clarkson to Cooksville...well they would have had a riot...because oh wait its all Mississauga.
But because we're smaller ....Bell can get away with more stuff....anyways...You could fight it but...chances are you'd lose...
I think the CRTC deemed Sudbury to be an unregulated service area when Eastlink moved in a few years ago. |
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| Hiya nitzguy... You're probably correct, although it is odd that there are no Sudbury exchanges in the unregulated list:
»www.bell.ca/styles/common/en/all···umer.pdf
They are listed in the Bell Aliant file next to it, not sure what purpose that serves though:
»www.bell.ca/styles/common/en/all···edCo.pdf |
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1 edit | I spoke to a Bell CSR who kindly removed the charge for the long distance plan, which seems to have been present because it's bundled with the plan by default. So that's a few bucks less, anyway. As for the other fee, the answer I got was the usual "porting as well as any other type of cancellation counts as termination and as such notice must be provided". I've now paid the rest of the bill, and am off to fill out the CCTS form. |
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