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| [HN7000S] 93W (G25) Frequency Change problems This morning around 7AM Eastern (3/27/2013) I was moved from 1265MHz (Symbol Rate of 10Msps) to 1334MHz (25Msps Symbol Rate). ... I am on the Small Office plan, and can force range to a 512 4/5 rate code easily, but system wants to stay at 256 1/2.
Called customer support and they said all was "normal" and the 256 1/2 was normal. Upon further questioning, they said that the 512 rate code is no longer available on this satellite. Also, said this was done to "improve performance". Well, performance was fine before the move, and it's now awful, especially with the low rate code, which has affected uplink to where it's now below 100Kbps, where is was 250Kbps plus before the move. ... Last speedtests were 460 down/12 up, followed by another of 444 down, 0 (yep ZERO) up. ...
If I can range to a 512 4/5, that makes it sound wrong when they say that they 512 rate code is no longer available.
Successful Rates | Unsuccessful Rates | Failed Rates |
----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
256k Turbo Code 1/2
256k Turbo Code 4/5
512k Turbo Code 1/2
512k Turbo Code 2/3
512k Turbo Code 4/5
_______________________________________________
Here are the stats after a few hours:
------------------------------------
Network Time: WED MAR 27 21:06:15 2013
------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 81 Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 72096/0
Flags............... 0x00001020 NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 6/32
Stream Error Rate....... 0.00% NonStream Error Rate....... 84.21%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 000:07:24:10 Aloha Starts................ 6
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0 Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000 Frames Received............. 1417650
Addresses Open............... 7 Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 093:W:13340 Miscellaneous Problems...... 1
Rate Code........ 256k 1/2 (TC) No Receive Outroute Lock.... 0
Inroute Group................ 20 No FLL Lock................. 0
Inroute...................... 5 No Network Timing Sync...... 0
IQoS ID...................... 0 Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 5/6 (15)
Rate Code Selection: Selected the highest available rate
Note the "Selected Highest Rate available"
____________________________________
Anyone have any ideas about this problem? All was fine before the move. Now getting reds in Diagnostics in Bandwidth Allocation Percentage (less than 5%), reds in Uplink Queuing, reds in RTT (at times over 2200 ms). ... Also, wondering if any others were affected by this move. ... Will check back later for any responses.
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
 grohgregDunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | I have a hard drive down, the one that contains my polarization data file. So - given the close proximity of former and current freqs - I'm going to speculate there was a polarization change involved. I base this on the poor ModCod and Rate Code data. If I'm correct, the solution may lie in optimizing the POL angle.
//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012 | |
| Thanks for the reply Greg. ... I have a config file from 5/25/2012 and 1334 (21K) was there back then. ... RX-Vertical, TX-Horizontal, which is the same as where I was on 1265. ... ModCod varies with SQF. On 1265 signal strength was always around 91 with a ModCod of 8-PSK 9/10 (17). It would drop when there was a heavy rain or wet snow in the dish. ... So, I still don't know what's going on. ... Sure don't think it's anything here, in that all was fine until the change yesterday morning.
Going to make a few calls and see if I can gain further info.
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
| reply to wa5sox1
Made several calls today. Yesterday, Tech Support said that I was on ProPlus plan. Today called account services and they said that I was on Small Office plan (which I am). ... Then called Tech Support again, and this time was told that the system showed I had two "active" accounts, ProPlus and Small Office. Been on SOHO plan since April 2008.
This leads me to wonder if where they placed me in the move is for the ProPlus, since it stays on a 256 1/2 rate code (as highest available rate), when I pass all rate codes up to 512 4/5.
They had me run a few speedtests, and acknowledged that there is a problem on upload, and that it began with the move to 1334 from 1265MHz. ... Escalated to Tier 4, supposed to call within 48 hours. Made certain that Rep noted proper time to call to get hold of me. ... So, we shall see.
I was told yesterday that this transponder does not support a 512 rate code. Does it make sense that if they placed me here, even though with Small Office plan, I can range to 512 but am stuck on 256?
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
grohgregDunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | reply to wa5sox1
Concur about the ModCod, that's typical of the adaptive outroute (your downlink). ModCods (1) through (17) are listed in the advanced pages under Receiver Stats/ACM-More/ModCod Stats. Those listing data are the ModCod rates employed since the last restart. Below Stats is the Trajectory Table. That shows the various signal levels at which the ModCod shifts up or down relative to downlink health. 8-PSK 5/6 (15) is consistent with a signal strength of 81. That's where I typically run. 8-PSK 7/8 (16) isn't available on my transponder, so it takes >92 for me to ever max out at 8-PSK (17). ModCod is not as susceptible to POL angle errors as is Rate Code. As long as your Az/El is accurate, ModCod is happy.
Regarding the inroute (your uplink), start by going to Transmitter/Allowed Inroutes. The green balls are indicative of the rate plan you're on. If you have no green under 512, ignore those ranging rates. So just because your modem sees 512 on the transponder doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. As with everything, you get what you pay for. Home plans are typically 256. Business plans can be either 256 or 512, depending upon what you pay for. If however you're actually paying for 512, your inroute problem is worse than I thought.
But it's not the symbol rate that initially got my attention. I don't like the FEC rate (1/2). A good clear sky POL angle should support 256 4/5 (TC). Unless the ModCod stats indicate that you typically get better than (15), yours is consistent with clear sky conditions. Hence your Rate Code should technically be 4/5.
Reason is, the inroute is adaptive too. The adaptive component is reflected in the Rate Code. As I said, clear skies should support xxx 4/5 (TC). As conditions deteriorate, FEC adapts as depicted by the Allowed Inroutes chart. And when the FEC can't drop any lower, the symbol rate drops. But when poor inroute numbers are present in clear sky conditions, the cause is likely a hardware problem in your TX path. The specific locations are many, so first let's start by checking your Allowed Inroutes. Then try to confirm which plan you're actually on. (PS: The partial Msps rates you originally mentioned do not suggest that you're assigned to a business transponder).
//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012 | |
2 edits | 
Allowed Inroutes |
If it's a hardware problem, and didn't manifest itself until they moved me (on 1265MHz I was always on a 512 2/3 or 4/5 except when the weather got VERY bad), then it would seem the problem would to be on their end.
Edit to add: What I am seeing is almost the same as when, with an SQF of 91, it would start snowing. If a wet snow, the SQF would drop until in the 60's, the rate would go to 256 1/2. ... I also find it strange that I never see the 256 4/5 which passed when ranging. ... As for the ranging stats, that's the way it's always ranged, always skipping or missing the 256 2/3.
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
| reply to wa5sox1
Okay, something just now happened. ... I'm now on the 512 4/5 rate code. Didn't do anything here. ... Have to wait and see if this stays, run a few speedtests, etc.
But, stream Ack/Nack percentage is wayyy up there at 34%. Hope that will settle down after a while. Going to clear stats and will post more info later. Here's how the stats stand prior to clearing.
____________________________________________________
------------------------------------
Network Time: FRI MAR 29 14:26:58 2013
------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 82 Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 714545/1717
Flags............... 0x00001020 NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 444/90
Stream Error Rate....... 0.24% NonStream Error Rate....... 16.85%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 002:00:44:54 Aloha Starts................ 447
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0 Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000 Frames Received............. 5503878
Addresses Open............... 7 Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 093:W:13340 Miscellaneous Problems...... 44426
Rate Code........ 512k 4/5 (TC) No Receive Outroute Lock.... 0
Inroute Group................ 21 No FLL Lock................. 0
Inroute..................... -1 No Network Timing Sync...... 0
IQoS ID...................... 0 Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 5/6 (15)
Rate Code Selection: Selected the highest available rate
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
grohgregDunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | reply to wa5sox1
Ok. Modem should have restarted itself after the freq change shift, but sometimes things go wrong. So first thing to power down the modem completely, power it back up, then run RE-registration. If 512 reappears as an allowed inroute, your modem is telling you it's on a business plan (I een won't pretend to understand why it's not Turbo Code though). Nevertheless, throw the 512 back at tech support. See what they do with it. Then we'll go from there
//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012 | |
| Not going to restart just yet. Lights are blinking and they may be taking a peek into the modem. ... Thus far, speeds are MUCH improved (just online tests). ... But the high Ack/Nack percentage is troubling.
It's possible that they could be just now applying the 512 rate code to this transponder and are establishing inroutes...difficult to say what's going on at this time. ... I did clear stats and here are the latest:
_________________________________________
------------------------------------
Network Time: FRI MAR 29 15:15:47 2013
------------------------------------
Adapter Main Statistics:
------------------------
Signal Strength.............. 83 Stream Msg-Ackd/Nakd........ 4181/1982
Flags............... 0x00001020 NonStream Msg-Ackd/Nakd..... 7/0
Stream Error Rate....... 32.16% NonStream Error Rate....... 0.00%
UpTime (d:h:m:s).. 002:01:33:43 Aloha Starts................ 7
WakeUp Aloha Starts.......... 0 Ranging Starts.............. 0
Transport Alarm Bit..... 0x0000 Frames Received............. 58586
Addresses Open............... 7 Frame Errors: CRC/Bad Key... 0/0
Carrier Info....... 093:W:13340 Miscellaneous Problems...... 0
Rate Code........ 512k 4/5 (TC) No Receive Outroute Lock.... 0
Inroute Group................ 21 No FLL Lock................. 0
Inroute...................... 0 No Network Timing Sync...... 0
IQoS ID...................... 0 Current Modcod.............. 8-PSK 5/6 (15)
Rate Code Selection: Selected the highest available rate
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
| reply to wa5sox1
Well, I'm definately on a 512 rate code. ... However, there appears to be only one Inroute Group, 21. ... And the Stream Error Rate is VERY high, at more than 30%.
Note from first post, when on the 256 1/2 rate code, Stream Error Rate was 0.00%. When on 1265, prior to move to 1334, the Error Rate was always below 1%. ... This has something to do with the new Inroute Group of 21. When on the 256 1/2, the Inroute Group was either 10, 20 or 30. ... The Inroute Group 21 wasn't seen until the transition to a 512 rate code.
So, I'm relatively certain that it isn't a problem on my end. Will wait for Tier 4 to call (if they call on weekends), or touch base with them on Monday if no call. ... Speed has improved somewhat on the upload. ... When I first noticed that I was on the 512, the speed was GREAT. Now, Flow Control is on, Bandwidth Allocation is low to marginal, and getting Priority Q2 High, Q3 High and Very High latency indications in diagnostics.
Before the move to 1334, there were always two Inroute Groups, 41 and 52. The 41 always showed a higher Stream Error Rate, below 2%, while the 52 was always 0.00%. ... Will post when I know more.
--
G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
grohgregDunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY
1 edit | said by wa5sox1:So, I'm relatively certain that it isn't a problem on my end.
Famous last words. There are lots of things in your TX path that can cause that, starting with the power adapter. Insufficient amperage/wrong voltage arriving at the TRIA will induce transmit errors (Stream Errors). If you have a spare power adapter, start there. If not, I have one. Next is the TX cable path, a possible bad connector or cable introducing transmit errors. Power down the modem, reverse the cables at the back, go outside and reverse the cables at the TRIA. Power the modem back up and see if (a) the Stream Errors persist, or (b) the ModCod drops. If the latter, you found a bad cable/connector. If the former, there's still the possibility of the transmitter component of the TRIA failing. Not too many customers have a spare transmitter hanging around, but I can help you there if it comes to it.
And as I said originally, a bad POL angle will cause bad Rate Codes and the associated stream errors. But in this case, it's sounding more like a hardware problem. I'm not saying that there couldn't be an inroute problem as well. But all those items mentioned above have to working to spec before you can confidently conclude that the problem's not on your end.
//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012 | |
2 edits | Just tried two power adapters with same results. Measured the Voltage out of modem ... Last I measured the voltage, I was on Horizontal receive, now it's Vertical. ... When Horizontally polarized, out to the LNB was 18.59 VDC. As I understand, when polarization is changed, there is a change in control voltage. ... So, before I proceed, I wonder if these voltages look okay, directly out of the modem.
Sat IN (to LNB): 13.59 VDC (Vertical RX)
Sat Out (to TX): 19.71 VDC
If this LNB voltage looks okay, and I sure hope it is and isn't the modem, then I will reverse the cables. ... Checked voltages with two meters to verify results. AC line voltage is right on 117 VAC.
Edit to add: I've searched all over DSL reports for info regarding LNB polarization voltages. The only result I could find was on a DBS forum, someone stating that the polarization is determined by whether the LNB voltage is above or below 15 VDC. ... Not certain if this applies to Hughes LNB, so awaiting reply as to whether the above voltage, of 13.59VDC, is correct for Vertical polarization.
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G25, 93W, 1265 MHz (10Msps), SOHO, .98/2Wt, Router (Gateway) 67.44.65.99 | |
grohgregDunno. Ask The Chief
join:2001-07-05
Dawson Springs, KY | reply to wa5sox1
Ok. As I said, I don't have access to my transponder files. Butthis takes us right back around full circle. A polarization change VERY often results in a bad POL angle on the new transponder. Some installers have a tendency to over-tweak to one polarization, which comes back to bite the user in the ass if/when shifted to a transponder of the opposite polarization.
It's not difficult to prove me wrong. Run ACP, and peak POL on the new transponder. If that doesn't fix things, we'll dig deeper
//greg//
--
HN7000S - 98cm Prodelin/2w "pure" Osiris - ProPlus - G16/1001H - NOC:GTN - NAT 67.142.115.130 - Gateway 66.82.25.10 - DNS 66.82.4.12 and 66.82.4.8 - Firefox 15/MSIE9 - AV/Firewalled by NIS2012 | | |
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