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markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
reply to Mont

Re: New Bell Construction

That document is strangely silent on satellite TV.

I browsed through it and noticed a lot of talk about Fibe TV and triple play. Seems that's where the focus is.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Bell already showed their level of commitment to satellite when they leased the 73W DBS slot to the Americans. Bell TV isn't going to disappear and and they will most likely convert everything to MPEG4 for additional bandwidth, but they're not going to go crazy with it like Dishnet and DirecTV have in the US. They'll forcus their crazyness on Fibe TV instead.


Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

unless they mean rollout was completed in 2012 and now they're fully online for new subscriber growth in 2013

I went to read the french documents and the way it's written seem more clear and seem to be exactly what you said.

Nimiq 5 at 72.5W was leased since it seem it was too low of elevation for Western Canada subscribers beside the money also they got a deal on equipment (dish,switches,receivers).

It's definitely not their priority but with both satellites being able to do MPEG 4 they have bandwith for a few years.


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
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1 edit
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

And yes, they'll either strapped a 7330 onto the OPI in your neighbourhood, or install one in a separate cabinet nearby.

How far away does one have to be or what is the maximum distance from the JWI or FTTC/FTTN Cabinet to qualify for VDSL2+?

The one I noticed is about a couple minutes drive maximum from me in my area. However there might be more in my area that I haven't noticed.


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
reply to jumpingryan

Since bonding and vectoring keeps coming up just thought it's worth mentioning that the Stinger's Bell has deployed do not support bonding or vectoring at all. You need to be using a 7330 to get those features.


Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC

Thanks for mentioning it , i forgot to say it was only for 7330.



joeybee
Joey
Premium
join:2003-08-12
Hamilton, ON
reply to jumpingryan

Does anyone know what the plans are for replacing the stingers with 7330s?

With Fibe tv they aren't able to offer the full 50mb on a stinger. They have set me to 45mb when the receiver is off though which is nice but would be better if the tv didn't restrict my internet.
--
Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, Are the ones who do.


Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC

Here in the area most JWI with a stinger got a 7330 installed in the last year or so but it's not activated yet.

They will problably transfer Fibe TV clients or those who want higher speed on it at some point.



FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
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reply to joeybee

said by joeybee:

Does anyone know what the plans are for replacing the stingers with 7330s?

With Fibe tv they aren't able to offer the full 50mb on a stinger. They have set me to 45mb when the receiver is off though which is nice but would be better if the tv didn't restrict my internet.

I'm sure they will begin overhauling the Alcatel Stingers and replacing them with 7330's over the next 3-5 Years. However their priority would likely to be first to install 7330's in JWI's or area without Remotes and then overhaul the Stingers.

Eventually I can see the end-goal being towards FTTH within 15-30 Years half of Canada if not more will have FTTH. FTTN is always an interim step with potential towards FTTH transition.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Replace Canada with Ontario and Quebec. FTTH deployments are well underway in the Prairies, and almost complete in Atlantic Canada.



FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
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said by Gone:

Replace Canada with Ontario and Quebec. FTTH deployments are well underway in the Prairies, and almost complete in Atlantic Canada.

Correct me if I am wrong Gone but I thought the FTTH Focus for Bell or their main allocation of budget for FTTH was for Quebec with greenfield and brownfield. In Ontario only greenfield will be receiving it and it seems to be a piecemeal deployment (although not too far from me I read that someone in Markham with a newhouse had received Bell FTTH).

The Prairies will be completed by the end of this decade for Sasktel/MTS (although MTS began it later) and Bell Aliant 50-75% is done with FibreOP deployment (began in 2009).


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Right. You said Canada. I said you should replace that with Ontario and Quebec, because outside of Ontario and Quebec they're well underway to having full fibre. Canada isn't exactly backwoods when it comes to FTTH deployments, it's just that Bell Canada isn't worth shit for it and everyone assumes it's the same everywhere in the country.

Bell's focus right now is that all new greenfield developments will be FTTH, with all new servicing since 2010 being FTTH. There's entire swaths of FTTH-fed houses here in Niagara for that reason, and there's even serviced lots ready for building here in Fort Erie that have Bell fibre strung to them. They are also going to overlay copper with fibre in areas that have overhead infrastructure, which is mostly in Quebec as even areas of Ontario that have above-ground hydro and cable tend to still have underground telephone.



FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
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said by Gone:

Right. You said Canada. I said you should replace that with Ontario and Quebec, because outside of Ontario and Quebec they're well underway to having full fibre. Canada isn't exactly backwoods when it comes to FTTH deployments, it's just that Bell Canada isn't worth shit for it and everyone assumes it's the same everywhere in the country.

Bell's focus right now is that all new greenfield developments will be FTTH, with all new servicing since 2010 being FTTH. There's entire swaths of FTTH-fed houses here in Niagara for that reason, and there's even serviced lots ready for building here in Fort Erie that have Bell fibre strung to them. They are also going to overlay copper with fibre in areas that have overhead infrastructure, which is mostly in Quebec as even areas of Ontario that have above-ground hydro and cable tend to still have underground telephone.

Exactly there are parts of the country in other provinces where FTTH Program's are well underway.

In Ontario and Quebec it is a slower transition due to the late arrival of Bell to the introduction of FTTH and the budget allocation and investment.

It's also a question of population density and size of the provinces. Both Ontario and Quebec account for roughly 18 Million of Canada's entire population which is about 50% and most of the early penetration was done in Ontario and possibly Quebec. The maritime provinces and Saskatchwan/Manitoba have much less of the population but more concentration in the cities than in rural areas. I see it taking perhaps 10-20 years for the GTA to have FTTH GPON and perhaps other cities.

I've heard also that Bell will be doing FTTH to existing Brownfields with Aerial lines but I am not sure about Brownfields with buried copper.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by FiberToTheX:

The maritime provinces and Saskatchwan/Manitoba have much less of the population but more concentration in the cities than in rural areas. I see it taking perhaps 10-20 years for the GTA to have FTTH GPON and perhaps other cities.

Incorrect. Ontario and Quebec are far more urban than any of those other provinces. 85% of Ontario's population is considered urban, tied with British Columbia as the most urban province in Canada. Quebec is a bit lower, 80%, but it is still third behind Alberta. Manitoba and Sask are *much* lower - Manitoba is 72%, Sask is 65%. Lower still is Nova Scotia, only 56%. And still even lower is New Brunswick at 51%. Then you've got PEI where there is more rural population than urban, as only 45% of the population is considered urban. All of this information is available from Statscan.

Knowing this, the argument that those provinces have more concentrated urban populations really doesn't apply. Rather, it is a combo of most of the infrastructure being aerial and the telcos being more willing to invest in infrastructure upgrades.

said by FiberToTheX:

I've heard also that Bell will be doing FTTH to existing Brownfields with Aerial lines but I am not sure about Brownfields with buried copper.

They'll eventually have no choice but to start deploying fibre (most likely as an overlay to existing copper rather than an all-out replacement) in existing areas with buried infrastructure. There will come a point where it will be cheaper to wire up fibre rather than replace old/damaged/non-functional copper infrastructure, and we're quickly reaching that point. Knowing this, it's not a question of if - it's a question of when.


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
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said by Gone:

said by FiberToTheX:

The maritime provinces and Saskatchwan/Manitoba have much less of the population but more concentration in the cities than in rural areas. I see it taking perhaps 10-20 years for the GTA to have FTTH GPON and perhaps other cities.

Incorrect. Ontario and Quebec are far more urban than any of those other provinces. 85% of Ontario's population is considered urban, tied with British Columbia as the most urban province in Canada. Quebec is a bit lower, 80%, but it is still third behind Alberta. Manitoba and Sask are *much* lower - Manitoba is 72%, Sask is 65%. Lower still is Nova Scotia, only 56%. And still even lower is New Brunswick at 51%. Then you've got PEI where there is more rural population than urban, as only 45% of the population is considered urban. All of this information is available from Statscan.

Knowing this, the argument that those provinces have more concentrated urban populations really doesn't apply. Rather, it is a combo of most of the infrastructure being aerial and the telcos being more willing to invest in infrastructure upgrades.

said by FiberToTheX:

I've heard also that Bell will be doing FTTH to existing Brownfields with Aerial lines but I am not sure about Brownfields with buried copper.

They'll eventually have no choice but to start deploying fibre (most likely as an overlay to existing copper rather than an all-out replacement) in existing areas with buried infrastructure. There will come a point where it will be cheaper to wire up fibre rather than replace old/damaged/non-functional copper infrastructure, and we're quickly reaching that point. Knowing this, it's not a question of if - it's a question of when.

Somehow I had always thought that those other provinces were more Urbanized than Ontario seeing the size and scale of Ontario. I just checked and you are right on that. Thanks for correcting me.

When you mention an overlay to existing copper wouldn't it simply be more cost-effective to replace that copper with strands of fiber. From what I gather copper has a lifespan of roughly 30 years whereas fiber has a lifespan of roughly 100 years which is more than double that of copper. When Verizon FiOS first began the cost for BPON FTTH was about $4000 in 2004. That figure was reduced to $650 around 2010 and later on GPON. I dont think it is expensive per house to go from copper to fiber considering FiOS was also deployed in brown fields with buried copper.

I just can't really see them trying to keep pushing out more remotes post the 7330 as VDSL FTTN is an interim step. Perhaps once areas receive the 7330 then 5-10 years later GPON FTTH will be introduced. I understand that vectoring is being introduced but sooner or later VDSL will have to be replaced.


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:9
Reviews:
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reply to FiberToTheX

said by FiberToTheX:

said by Gone:

And yes, they'll either strapped a 7330 onto the OPI in your neighbourhood, or install one in a separate cabinet nearby.

How far away does one have to be or what is the maximum distance from the JWI or FTTC/FTTN Cabinet to qualify for VDSL2+?

The one I noticed is about a couple minutes drive maximum from me in my area. However there might be more in my area that I haven't noticed.

To get the full speed you a need a loop length of 1.2km of the remote.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
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reply to FiberToTheX

Ontario is more urbanized because the vast majority of the population lives near Toronto, Ottawa and maybe London. Even the ones who don't live near those cities are close to other cities like Kingston or Thunder Bay.

Much of Ontario has a very sparse or non-existent population.
--
Tom



TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1

Everything exists more or less along the Windsor-Montreal transportation corridor and then the border crossings into the U.S.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

They'll eventually have no choice but to start deploying fibre (most likely as an overlay to existing copper rather than an all-out replacement) in existing areas with buried infrastructure. There will come a point where it will be cheaper to wire up fibre rather than replace old/damaged/non-functional copper infrastructure, and we're quickly reaching that point. Knowing this, it's not a question of if - it's a question of when.

If Bell makes the investment to install fibre in a brownfield area, they will cut the copper - simply to save on maintenance costs and to lock out wholesale. It won't be an overlay - it will be an all-out replacement.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by HeadSpinning:

If Bell makes the investment to install fibre in a brownfield area, they will cut the copper - simply to save on maintenance costs and to lock out wholesale. It won't be an overlay - it will be an all-out replacement.

I can't see them doing anything different than what they have done in the US, which is overlay first with a phased transition and disconnection later. I believe this is how it was one in Quebec City, too. Once the copper plant actually breaks, becomes more expensive to maintain or the phased transition is complete in an area then they'll turn off the copper (I can't see them actually ripping it out, either), but prior to that there will be a transition period where they run both networks rather than installing ONTs into every single home all at once. I'd put money on it.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to TLS2000

said by TLS2000:

Ontario is more urbanized because the vast majority of the population lives near Toronto, Ottawa and maybe London. Even the ones who don't live near those cities are close to other cities like Kingston or Thunder Bay.
Much of Ontario has a very sparse or non-existent population.

Most of Ontario's population is in the Greater Golden Horseshoe. Even London and Ottawa are drops in the bucket compared to the western-end of Lake Ontario.

Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
reply to Gone

I know it's bit off topic but it goes with the discussion , Hydro-Quebec started replacing the pole in my area a few years ago and my side of the street was done in the fall of 2011 , the other side as yet to be done.

They added a few more poles so the existing cable and telephone wires can't be used. Videotron came about a month ago and installed a new wire , now bell is left and like Videotron they will have to put a new wire so will they put fiber or copper or both , i suppose they will put copper but it will be interesting to see what they do.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

It could go either way. If all of the telephone infrastructure in your area is aerial they might just put up fibre and be done with it, but there is also back-end and customer-end infrastructure that needs to be in place before they switch. Switching cable from coax to fibre is a hell of a lot easier in that regard, because you can put the ONT right onto the telephone pole and only run coax from the pole to the customer. There's some rural areas around here that have setups like that.


Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC

It's mostly aerial but in some cases the wire goes underground like on my street the wire from my side who goes on the other side of the street goes underground.


jumpingryan

join:2008-07-27
Pembroke, ON
reply to SLAMtech

said by SLAMtech:

Very well looks to be a 7330 going in. First box is a fibre fed box already for pots(could also be hdsl fed) and second box is a distribution OPI.

It also could be a FTTH CSP going in if any new development is going on.

One thing I must note that in the rurals the regular under 5km distance for DSL does not generally apply. The cable guage is lower and pushes the DSL further than normal. Seen a sub on a 7330 that was installed in the rural and he was just under 7km away and was receiving full adsl attainables 8128/928.

SLAMtech,

Just wondering if you had any information on the equipment in my post updated as of today (the google earth file with more pictures).

Was wondering if you can tell me about the equipment installed at Achray Road and Forest Lea Road. Are you able to tell if they are Stingers or 7330's?

I am learning quite abit on how DSL networks are made through this mini-project....

Thanks

R


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

If it's a brand new install it'll be a 7330, not a Stinger.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to jumpingryan

said by jumpingryan:

said by SLAMtech:

Very well looks to be a 7330 going in. First box is a fibre fed box already for pots(could also be hdsl fed) and second box is a distribution OPI.

It also could be a FTTH CSP going in if any new development is going on.

One thing I must note that in the rurals the regular under 5km distance for DSL does not generally apply. The cable guage is lower and pushes the DSL further than normal. Seen a sub on a 7330 that was installed in the rural and he was just under 7km away and was receiving full adsl attainables 8128/928.

SLAMtech,

Just wondering if you had any information on the equipment in my post updated as of today (the google earth file with more pictures).

Was wondering if you can tell me about the equipment installed at Achray Road and Forest Lea Road. Are you able to tell if they are Stingers or 7330's?

I am learning quite abit on how DSL networks are made through this mini-project....

Thanks

R

Just an FYI and I don't know if this is still the case, but Aecon had the contract for Bell work around Pembroke a couple of years ago. Not likely you'll see Bell vehicles constructing pedestals, unless it's an inspector....


FTTHTechie

@axxent.ca
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

Heh, that document has a bit of contradictory information since Fibe TV is already available in all of those markets they claim will be "new" in 2013, unless they mean rollout was completed in 2012 and now they're fully online for new subscriber growth in 2013 which would make more sense, with the additional million households being other markets that will be "new" in 2014.

I just took a look at the document posted in this topic:

»www.bce.ca/assets/investors/Q4-2···ted2.pdf

It's a Q4 2012 Year End Report and on Page 42 it has the following key information:

quote:
New Fibe TV markets for 2013
Ottawa
Barrie
Hamilton
Aurora
Markham
Milton
Newmarket
Richmond Hill
Stoney Creek
Vaughan
Laval
North Shore (Montréal)
South Shore (Montréal)
quote:
• ~4.3M Fibe TV-enabled homes at YE’13 out
of total residential footprint of ~7M homes
quote:
Growing IPTV footprint by ~1M homes in 2013
If the document is correct and they stand by that schedule it would indicate that the GTA remains the priority with Stoney Creek (part of Hamilton) , Ottawa , Barrie , Hamilton being the other areas for deployment primarily in 2013.

Some areas are indeed listed that already have FTTN access but I've been cataloging/documenting the availability of Remotes in Richmond Hill and Markham and I've noticed in certain areas even with remote's JWI's that don't have FTTN and also JWI's in areas with no remotes. I would assume that they plan to finish deployment of 7330's and perhaps overhaul existing Stinger remotes or complement them with 7330's (as I've seen in a few locations). I'm sure in some locations roll-out was also completed but I've seen a 7330 or a few that don't seem to be activated or available with FTTN. Perhaps their awaiting activation in 2013.

I'll be switching to a 45/3 Cable Internet connection sometime in early summer however if they install a 7330 from my CO (which is only a few km's) what kind of advantage will I see in upgrading from 45/3 to 50/10 provided I am within distance and the line quality affords it ?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Those are the areas that came online in 2012 and are now ready for full sales in 2013. This has already been discussed, as the French translation makes it more obvious. The builtout that occurs during the summer of 2013 is will be the "new" markets in in 2014. These "new for 2014" locations will be places like Niagara Falls, Welland, Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo, Guelph, Kingston, etc.

Bell will most definitely not reveal their 2013 buildout locations for competitive reasons. The last thing they would want are Rogers and Cogeco blanketing the market and locking people into contracts during the year. The only thing they'll tell you are that one million more homes will be wired up by the end of the year.



xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:7
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..

said by Gone:

These "new for 2014" locations will be places like Niagara Falls, Welland, Kitchener-Cambridge-Waterloo, Guelph, Kingston, etc.

Guelph has had FibeTV for over four months now.