dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
3799
share rss forum feed

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON

Old messages turning up in inbox

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages. Not just a few - hundreds dating back to October last year! All messages that I have already read and in at least some cases deleted.

These show up in my laptop Windows Live Mail email client. Reasonably easy to delete, but why?

The messages are also turning up on my BB Playbook tablet. Deleting a hundred messages on a tablet is quite a chore.

Can anyone explain why this is happening?

MrPink

join:2003-08-15
Peterborough, ON
When I delete a message in my inbox, I assume that includes the copy on the mail server.

Is his (our) e-mail not being deleted as I thought? Are there copies of deleted e-mail on Cogeco's servers? I would not want some old e-mails turning up in my inbox. I deleted them for a reason.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
said by MrPink:

When I delete a message in my inbox, I assume that includes the copy on the mail server.

Is his (our) e-mail not being deleted as I thought? Are there copies of deleted e-mail on Cogeco's servers? I would not want some old e-mails turning up in my inbox. I deleted them for a reason.

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 recommendation

reply to Dingaan
said by dillyhammer:

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

This issue does not fall under the PIPEDA act. Here is a link to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act if you need a refresher:
- »laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-8.6/

And some interpretations of the act:
- »www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/interpretat···02_e.asp

said by Dingaan:

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages.

If you delete a couple of these emails right now, will they return?

exseven
Premium,VIP
join:2003-05-23
L8E0G6
kudos:1
reply to Dingaan
If you leave them on the server, and delete from your inbox i think it would depend on the client if it goes back and deletes those emails or not. If you didnt check the box to leave them on the server then the mails would be deleted when your client downloads them (also dependant on the client).

If you are positive they were deleted off the server then file a ticket and someone in that department will look. Or like dillyhammer suggested full out jump to conclusions without investigation and start filing complaints.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..

2 edits
reply to urbanriot
Meh. I would file the complaint and let the Commissioner decide if it had jurisdiction or not.

Cogeco is certainly not the kind of company that warrants any latitude. Wouldn't get it from me anyway.

And it's hardly jumping to conclusions there, exseven. Cogeco's current set of email woes began in November 2012. In 1 more day it'll be April 2013. How 5 months is jumping to conclusions I'll never know, but for the prices Cogeco is charging - the most expensive in the world according to some of it's tariff filings - the services should just work, not spend 5 months in la-la-land.

People should NOT be putting up with it. They should be dragging Cogeco onto the carpet kicking and screaming for everything.

Mike

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

If you delete a couple of these emails right now, will they return?

This has happened several time. Each time I did a block delete (using Windows Live Mail) of all the old messages that now showed up as unread in the inbox. Not sure if they were the exact same messages, but at least 3 times, a new large block of old messages showed up in my inbox (on PC and tablet)

I have WLM set up so server should delete messages after 60 days and whenever I empty the deletd messages folder. The messages showing up are all older (from 2012)

Could this be something to do with the new and old webmail?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Potentially related to their upgrade but since you're the only person that's complained (so far), it might be a Dingaan problem.

As exseven suggested, do you have any options enabled to 'leave a message on the server'? I've seen this foul up in the past, especially in Outlook Express, and it could be related to the upgrade but not directly.

Looking here, »support.tigertech.net/windows-live-mail-lmos, do you have any of those boxes checked on your system?

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON

1 edit
said by urbanriot:

Potentially related to their upgrade but since you're the only person that's complained (so far), it might be a Dingaan problem.

As exseven suggested, do you have any options enabled to 'leave a message on the server'? I've seen this foul up in the past, especially in Outlook Express, and it could be related to the upgrade but not directly.

Looking here, »support.tigertech.net/windows-live-mail-lmos, do you have any of those boxes checked on your system?

See my previous message re WLM setup for deleting messages. I have it set up as it should be when using multiple devices i.e. Leave deleted messages on server, delete after 60 days or when deleted from deleted folder.

Deleted messages and others that were not deleted, but Read show up as new unread messages in the WLM and BB Playbook Inboxes. Not sure how this could be a "dingaan" problem?

My guess is that during the long transition periodm the WLM settings worked with one version of webmail and perhaps not with the other. But what do I know?

exseven
Premium,VIP
join:2003-05-23
L8E0G6
kudos:1
Chances are the backend filesystem changed for your mailbox causing the clients to think the messages are new when they are not depending on how they detect new messages its most likely remembering what the last counts were and their filesizes rom a combination of STAT and LIST commands. if the FS changed and then in turn the size on disk changes and the clients think the mail is new...


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Dingaan
I understand why you're doing it and again, I've seen the setting goof many times on many Windows mail clients for many years. This is normal.

The resolution is typically to set your mail client not to leave messages on the server (so ensure you have them downloaded on all your devices) which will 'flush' out your mail queue by deleting all the emails on the server and then re-enable the setting.

I say 'dingaan problem' as it's a problem on your end that needs to be resolved and it's related to this mail setting. Cogeco can't resolve this for you.

Trust me and give it a try

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON

1 edit
"I say 'dingaan problem' as it's a problem on your end that needs to be resolved and it's related to this mail setting. Cogeco can't resolve this for you."

Well, I did nothing out of the ordinary. In fact I used one of the only ways there is to get around the POP server problem when using multiple devices. Having deleted (and undeleted but read) messages end up in Inbox, is not something I can fix.

Even although I should not have to fix the problem, I have tried. What I did was go to webmail and delete the contents of all folders. I also emptied all deleted folders on WLM and Playbook. This seems easy enough, but our 5 emails opened different versions of webmail and one in a different language! But maybe deleting from the new webmail may not delete from the old!

Whatever Nothing surprises me.

I have been with Cogeco forever, but I think I will soon transition to non-cogeco email for everyday use. Not just because of this issue. I just replied to a Cogeco friend and my reply was rejected. My wife just sent an email to our daughter - also rejected. We are in USA and understand that we often cannot send using our Cogeco accounts. But we have been doing so for 2 months and today it changed. Frustrating, but problem solved my Gmail!


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
said by Dingaan:

I have been with Cogeco forever, but I think I will soon transition to non-cogeco email for everyday use. Not just because of this issue. I just replied to a Cogeco friend and my reply was rejected. My wife just sent an email to our daughter - also rejected. We are in USA and understand that we often cannot send using our Cogeco accounts. But we have been doing so for 2 months and today it changed. Frustrating, but problem solved my Gmail!

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


teddy

join:2002-02-20
Kingston, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Start Communicat..
·Cogeco Cable
said by dillyhammer:

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.

I believe it is $50 per user per year now.


ruddypict

join:2010-03-24
kudos:2
said by teddy:

said by dillyhammer:

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.

I believe it is $50 per user per year now.

I still have my hands on a 50 user free acct as well as a 10 user free acct. I'd pay for access to it as a business for sure, or if I wanted hassle free email.

If I wanted to play hide and seek with my emails I'd go with Cogeco, lol.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to teddy
said by teddy:

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.
I believe it is $50 per user per year now.

I believe they'll still do a one user account for free, but you need to look hard for it. Anything more than that and you pay.

We use a free 10 user account at the store. If I'm ever forced into paying for it, I'll move the accounts to something better for the same price in a heartbeat.

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON

3 edits
reply to Dingaan
said by Dingaan:

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages. Not just a few - hundreds dating back to October last year! All messages that I have already read and in at least some cases deleted.

This has just happened again.

This morning 261 messages showed up in my email as unread messages. They were a mix of messages addresses to our 5 email addresses. They dated back to mid December. All had been read and most previously deleted.

Another thing - the messages included some addressed to my wife. I don't have my email client (WLM) set to download her messages. This would seem to indicate that these messages must have been moved as a group.

It is so confusing and there are so many messages to inspect, that I will have some trouble explaining to Cogeco what I am seeing. But that is what I will have to try.

Spoke to first agent - He insisted it was way my WLM is set up. But I asked, would the unread messages not be on webmail. He said that they were there. My WLM is snot set up to receive my wife's email, but there were many of her messages amongst the 261 re-received today. I gave up with that agent - he would not try and understand what I was saying.

I then logged onto Webmail. It showed zero messages but also showed 39Mb of 100Mb being used. Called again - different agent. Kept apologizing ! He said 39Mb was a display error. Also could not explain why there were two inbox folders. He said, that like me he could see no messages in my webmail his end. (maybe other agent deleted them?) He said that it must be a WLM problem and that it was finding those messages on my computer. But the messages included some of my wife's emails that had never been on my computer so where did they come from!

It's frustrating when agents just seem to want to get you off phone and not try and solve problem.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by dillyhammer:

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

This issue does not fall under the PIPEDA act. Here is a link to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act if you need a refresher:
- »laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-8.6/

And some interpretations of the act:
- »www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/interpretat···02_e.asp

Do you have specific ruling or case law as it would fall under the Act as personally identifiable information. Even an IP held by an ISP is covered under the ACT.

" An Internet Protocol (IP) address can be considered personal information if it can be associated with an identifiable individual. For example, in one complaint finding, we determined that some of the IP addresses that an internet service provider (ISP) was collecting were personal information because the ISP had the ability to link the IP addresses to its customers through their subscriber IDs."


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
huh-what...!? None of that even is even closely related to this issue.

The OP left emails on his mail server, his system kept track of which emails he'd already downloaded, the tracking function malfunctioned and he started re-downloading old messages again - this is a common problem with mail clients, I've seen it plenty in the past decade with people that do this.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by urbanriot:

huh-what...!? None of that even is even closely related to this issue.

Lets see...we are discussing whether Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act applies to emails on an ISP's server and I posted that it apparently does as they have personally identifiable information. The ISP has very clear obligations under the Act.

Did you even understand the Act before you stated posting in here?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Sure, it occasionally involves my contractual job with more hands on experience than I'm sure you have with it. Do you understand the internet before posting here

I'd encourage you to specifically point to how the user's issue is in any way tied to the act but such a conversation is taking this thread wildly off topic. We can discuss philosophy in PM's if you want to, I'm open to it.

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

The OP left emails on his mail server, his system kept track of which emails he'd already downloaded, the tracking function malfunctioned and he started re-downloading old messages again

Yes, I am sure that could happen. But could you explain how my wife's old emails would be part of the block of emails that were downloaded? My mail client is not configured to access her account yet her old emails were there along with a host of mine that had already been read and deleted. The other strange thing, was that webmail did not show those emails yet did show 39Mb being used.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Last weekend I suggested this:

said by urbanriot:

The resolution is typically to set your mail client not to leave messages on the server (so ensure you have them downloaded on all your devices) which will 'flush' out your mail queue by deleting all the emails on the server and then re-enable the setting.

Did you try that?

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

Sure, it occasionally involves my contractual job with more hands on experience than I'm sure you have with it.

Then you would, or should know that retention of consumers data is one of the paramount foundations of the Act.

said by urbanriot:

Do you understand the internet before posting here

Actually I don't know how the internet works. I just click the mouse thing and away things go and come back from you. I am in a constant state of amazement.

said by urbanriot:

I'd encourage you to specifically point to how the user's issue is in any way tied to the act but such a conversation is taking this thread wildly off topic. We can discuss philosophy in PM's if you want to, I'm open to it.

There is a whole framework in the Act that addresses what data is retained, for how long, how it is guarded and what circumstances it is distributed that are germane to the OPs situation. But you already knew that or should.

MrPink

join:2003-08-15
Peterborough, ON
reply to Dingaan
I have been following this thread with more interest than I normally do.

There seems to be two trains of thought, one is that this is a client side issue due to how his e-mail is or was set up, the other is that there is an issue with Cogeco and how old/deleted e-mails are handled on their end.

I would very much like to definitively know if this is a Cogeco thing or not. As I stated in my previous reply I very much do not want old deleted e-mails being regurgitated back to my family's Cogeco inbox's at random.


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
It could be due to either side. I've seen both. For example, if Cogeco has a primary and secondary mail server that mirror each other, and the mirror isn't perfect (some deleted messages stay on the secondary server due to a software or communications issue), when they do a role swap, old messages get re-sent.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to peterboro
said by peterboro:

There is a whole framework in the Act that addresses what data is retained, for how long, how it is guarded and what circumstances it is distributed that are germane to the OPs situation. But you already knew that or should.

While I am not 100% certain that what the OP experienced could be considered a PIPEDA violation, what I suggested was that a complaint should be filed because it may well be. Let the feds do their job.

Cogeco is a federally regulated business, and given that their entire email infrastructure recently underwent lengthy, problematic changes, someone needs to be looking at this. Other than Cogeco with their rose-coloured glasses that is.

It has nothing to do with hammering on Cogeco, or jumping to conclusions. It has everything to do with getting this issue on the radar and holding Cogeco (and any other federally-regulated business) accountable.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
said by dillyhammer:

Cogeco is a federally regulated business, and given that their entire email infrastructure recently underwent lengthy, problematic changes, someone needs to be looking at this. Other than Cogeco with their rose-coloured glasses that is.

It has nothing to do with hammering on Cogeco, or jumping to conclusions. It has everything to do with getting this issue on the radar and holding Cogeco (and any other federally-regulated business) accountable.

Mike

Federal/Provincial regulation for the most part is not a distinction for a business under PIPEDA. If you are a business you have obligations under PIPEDA. The Federal/Provincial distinctions are relevant to labour code and human rights for example.

Under PIPEDA Cogeco will be required to disclose their retention policies for emails. If the requester articulates very specific criteria they may get more information. But as Urbanriot said I don't know how the internets, or emails for that matter work, so it wouldn't be someone like me.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Yes, I stand corrected. The distinction was removed almost 9 years ago. Good to know, my thanks.

Mike

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
reply to MrPink
said by MrPink:

I would very much like to definitively know if this is a Cogeco thing or not. As I stated in my previous reply I very much do not want old deleted e-mails being regurgitated back to my family's Cogeco inbox's at random.

I would too! Imagine my wife had a lover on the side or something and this sort of thing happened