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Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

Old messages turning up in inbox

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages. Not just a few - hundreds dating back to October last year! All messages that I have already read and in at least some cases deleted.

These show up in my laptop Windows Live Mail email client. Reasonably easy to delete, but why?

The messages are also turning up on my BB Playbook tablet. Deleting a hundred messages on a tablet is quite a chore.

Can anyone explain why this is happening?

MrPink

join:2003-08-15
Peterborough, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

When I delete a message in my inbox, I assume that includes the copy on the mail server.

Is his (our) e-mail not being deleted as I thought? Are there copies of deleted e-mail on Cogeco's servers? I would not want some old e-mails turning up in my inbox. I deleted them for a reason.



dillyhammer
A. Good. Start.
Premium,MVM
join:2010-01-09
Hamilton, ON
kudos:9
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said by MrPink:

When I delete a message in my inbox, I assume that includes the copy on the mail server.

Is his (our) e-mail not being deleted as I thought? Are there copies of deleted e-mail on Cogeco's servers? I would not want some old e-mails turning up in my inbox. I deleted them for a reason.

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

reply to Dingaan

said by dillyhammer:

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

This issue does not fall under the PIPEDA act. Here is a link to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act if you need a refresher:
- »laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-8.6/

And some interpretations of the act:
- »www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/interpretat···02_e.asp

said by Dingaan:

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages.

If you delete a couple of these emails right now, will they return?

exseven
Premium,VIP
join:2003-05-23
L8E0G6
kudos:1

reply to Dingaan
If you leave them on the server, and delete from your inbox i think it would depend on the client if it goes back and deletes those emails or not. If you didnt check the box to leave them on the server then the mails would be deleted when your client downloads them (also dependant on the client).

If you are positive they were deleted off the server then file a ticket and someone in that department will look. Or like dillyhammer suggested full out jump to conclusions without investigation and start filing complaints.



dillyhammer
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join:2010-01-09
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2 edits

reply to urbanriot
Meh. I would file the complaint and let the Commissioner decide if it had jurisdiction or not.

Cogeco is certainly not the kind of company that warrants any latitude. Wouldn't get it from me anyway.

And it's hardly jumping to conclusions there, exseven. Cogeco's current set of email woes began in November 2012. In 1 more day it'll be April 2013. How 5 months is jumping to conclusions I'll never know, but for the prices Cogeco is charging - the most expensive in the world according to some of it's tariff filings - the services should just work, not spend 5 months in la-la-land.

People should NOT be putting up with it. They should be dragging Cogeco onto the carpet kicking and screaming for everything.

Mike


Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

If you delete a couple of these emails right now, will they return?

This has happened several time. Each time I did a block delete (using Windows Live Mail) of all the old messages that now showed up as unread in the inbox. Not sure if they were the exact same messages, but at least 3 times, a new large block of old messages showed up in my inbox (on PC and tablet)

I have WLM set up so server should delete messages after 60 days and whenever I empty the deletd messages folder. The messages showing up are all older (from 2012)

Could this be something to do with the new and old webmail?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

Potentially related to their upgrade but since you're the only person that's complained (so far), it might be a Dingaan problem.

As exseven suggested, do you have any options enabled to 'leave a message on the server'? I've seen this foul up in the past, especially in Outlook Express, and it could be related to the upgrade but not directly.

Looking here, »support.tigertech.net/windows-live-mail-lmos, do you have any of those boxes checked on your system?


Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 edit

said by urbanriot:

Potentially related to their upgrade but since you're the only person that's complained (so far), it might be a Dingaan problem.

As exseven suggested, do you have any options enabled to 'leave a message on the server'? I've seen this foul up in the past, especially in Outlook Express, and it could be related to the upgrade but not directly.

Looking here, »support.tigertech.net/windows-live-mail-lmos, do you have any of those boxes checked on your system?

See my previous message re WLM setup for deleting messages. I have it set up as it should be when using multiple devices i.e. Leave deleted messages on server, delete after 60 days or when deleted from deleted folder.

Deleted messages and others that were not deleted, but Read show up as new unread messages in the WLM and BB Playbook Inboxes. Not sure how this could be a "dingaan" problem?

My guess is that during the long transition periodm the WLM settings worked with one version of webmail and perhaps not with the other. But what do I know?

exseven
Premium,VIP
join:2003-05-23
L8E0G6
kudos:1

Chances are the backend filesystem changed for your mailbox causing the clients to think the messages are new when they are not depending on how they detect new messages its most likely remembering what the last counts were and their filesizes rom a combination of STAT and LIST commands. if the FS changed and then in turn the size on disk changes and the clients think the mail is new...



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

reply to Dingaan
I understand why you're doing it and again, I've seen the setting goof many times on many Windows mail clients for many years. This is normal.

The resolution is typically to set your mail client not to leave messages on the server (so ensure you have them downloaded on all your devices) which will 'flush' out your mail queue by deleting all the emails on the server and then re-enable the setting.

I say 'dingaan problem' as it's a problem on your end that needs to be resolved and it's related to this mail setting. Cogeco can't resolve this for you.

Trust me and give it a try


Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 edit

"I say 'dingaan problem' as it's a problem on your end that needs to be resolved and it's related to this mail setting. Cogeco can't resolve this for you."

Well, I did nothing out of the ordinary. In fact I used one of the only ways there is to get around the POP server problem when using multiple devices. Having deleted (and undeleted but read) messages end up in Inbox, is not something I can fix.

Even although I should not have to fix the problem, I have tried. What I did was go to webmail and delete the contents of all folders. I also emptied all deleted folders on WLM and Playbook. This seems easy enough, but our 5 emails opened different versions of webmail and one in a different language! But maybe deleting from the new webmail may not delete from the old!

Whatever Nothing surprises me.

I have been with Cogeco forever, but I think I will soon transition to non-cogeco email for everyday use. Not just because of this issue. I just replied to a Cogeco friend and my reply was rejected. My wife just sent an email to our daughter - also rejected. We are in USA and understand that we often cannot send using our Cogeco accounts. But we have been doing so for 2 months and today it changed. Frustrating, but problem solved my Gmail!



dillyhammer
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join:2010-01-09
Hamilton, ON
kudos:9
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said by Dingaan:

I have been with Cogeco forever, but I think I will soon transition to non-cogeco email for everyday use. Not just because of this issue. I just replied to a Cogeco friend and my reply was rejected. My wife just sent an email to our daughter - also rejected. We are in USA and understand that we often cannot send using our Cogeco accounts. But we have been doing so for 2 months and today it changed. Frustrating, but problem solved my Gmail!

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


teddy

join:2002-02-20
Kingston, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
·voip.ms

said by dillyhammer:

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.

I believe it is $50 per user per year now.


ruddypict

join:2010-03-24
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

said by teddy:

said by dillyhammer:

Register dingaan.ca, and let Google host your email for free.



Mike

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.

I believe it is $50 per user per year now.

I still have my hands on a 50 user free acct as well as a 10 user free acct. I'd pay for access to it as a business for sure, or if I wanted hassle free email.

If I wanted to play hide and seek with my emails I'd go with Cogeco, lol.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

reply to teddy

said by teddy:

Sadly Google doesn't do this free anymore. I've had it for years and they aren't cutting off old accounts at least.
I believe it is $50 per user per year now.

I believe they'll still do a one user account for free, but you need to look hard for it. Anything more than that and you pay.

We use a free 10 user account at the store. If I'm ever forced into paying for it, I'll move the accounts to something better for the same price in a heartbeat.

Dingaan

join:2002-02-19
Bath, ON
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

3 edits

reply to Dingaan

said by Dingaan:

Over the past week or so, large numbers of previously read messages are turning up in our inboxes as unread messages. Not just a few - hundreds dating back to October last year! All messages that I have already read and in at least some cases deleted.

This has just happened again.

This morning 261 messages showed up in my email as unread messages. They were a mix of messages addresses to our 5 email addresses. They dated back to mid December. All had been read and most previously deleted.

Another thing - the messages included some addressed to my wife. I don't have my email client (WLM) set to download her messages. This would seem to indicate that these messages must have been moved as a group.

It is so confusing and there are so many messages to inspect, that I will have some trouble explaining to Cogeco what I am seeing. But that is what I will have to try.

Spoke to first agent - He insisted it was way my WLM is set up. But I asked, would the unread messages not be on webmail. He said that they were there. My WLM is snot set up to receive my wife's email, but there were many of her messages amongst the 261 re-received today. I gave up with that agent - he would not try and understand what I was saying.

I then logged onto Webmail. It showed zero messages but also showed 39Mb of 100Mb being used. Called again - different agent. Kept apologizing ! He said 39Mb was a display error. Also could not explain why there were two inbox folders. He said, that like me he could see no messages in my webmail his end. (maybe other agent deleted them?) He said that it must be a WLM problem and that it was finding those messages on my computer. But the messages included some of my wife's emails that had never been on my computer so where did they come from!

It's frustrating when agents just seem to want to get you off phone and not try and solve problem.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

reply to urbanriot

said by urbanriot:

said by dillyhammer:

This should be of serious concern to all Cogeco customers. Someone should be filing a PIPEDA complaint just to get this on the radar.

This issue does not fall under the PIPEDA act. Here is a link to the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act if you need a refresher:
- »laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-8.6/

And some interpretations of the act:
- »www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/interpretat···02_e.asp

Do you have specific ruling or case law as it would fall under the Act as personally identifiable information. Even an IP held by an ISP is covered under the ACT.

" An Internet Protocol (IP) address can be considered personal information if it can be associated with an identifiable individual. For example, in one complaint finding, we determined that some of the IP addresses that an internet service provider (ISP) was collecting were personal information because the ISP had the ability to link the IP addresses to its customers through their subscriber IDs."


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

huh-what...!? None of that even is even closely related to this issue.

The OP left emails on his mail server, his system kept track of which emails he'd already downloaded, the tracking function malfunctioned and he started re-downloading old messages again - this is a common problem with mail clients, I've seen it plenty in the past decade with people that do this.


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by urbanriot:

huh-what...!? None of that even is even closely related to this issue.

Lets see...we are discussing whether Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act applies to emails on an ISP's server and I posted that it apparently does as they have personally identifiable information. The ISP has very clear obligations under the Act.

Did you even understand the Act before you stated posting in here?

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