dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2564
share rss forum feed


Plus One

@videotron.ca

CRTC Silencing Voices.

As a few of you may have caught on to, for some reason JF's submissions (which include my voice and many of your voices) has been silenced that past week for a couple of filings.

The CRTC seems to be indicating that JF should not be:

-involved in some filings.

-Should not be putting forth submissions

-should not be speaking for people

-Should not exist.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I know JF has been a voice for many people in this community with his submissions, presentations, his time going to meetings, and showing all of us how the CRTC works.

In my belief we owe JF a BIG ty for sticking up for all of us. Representing us. And putting what we say here on DSLreports on public record with the Canadian government at the CRTC.

So with the CRTC, for some reason, ignoring his last two filings, and pretending JF doesn't even exist, JF told me he wants to quit.

That means all your voices here will no longer be heard. And don't kid yourself, PIAC, CIPPIC, and CNOC have their own agenda. And it doesn't include you, the "customer".

The CRTC has yet to respond as to why they want to silence JF, who represents all of us here. But above is his submission on the issue.

If push comes to shove I'll try to make some sort of petition to make sure he continues to represent all of us at the CRTC. To be a voice for all of us that CNOC, CIPPIC and the rest of the industry groups ignore.

I don't know what I'm asking here... Maybe I'm asking that that you support a voice. A voice of the community here that JF brings to the table.

Feel free to bitch.

Enclosure:
JF's letter to the CRTC after they ignored his last two submissions.

Seems to me the CRTC wants to shut people up. You are a nobody that deserves no voice.

Let's give JF some encouragement for all he's done over the years.

+1 JF

zipperhead

join:2009-01-07
Ajax, ON

I would gladly sign a petition to express discontent with the CRTC's handling of JF's submissions. As you have stated JF has invested considerable time and effort on behalf of Joe public at the CRTC and I would like him to continue. I sure hope he does not give up now.

Expand your moderator at work


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
reply to zipperhead

Re: CRTC Silencing Voices.

He won't go away quietly. We all know that.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Plus One

My understanding is that it's something procedural and technical; he made a filing before the deadline and then submitted corrections after the deadline, and that was probably the source of the problem. The CRTC has been having technical problems (they even delayed some deadlines because of them), so it's a bit soon to jump to conclusions that the CRTC is trying to silence anybody and not just dealing with broken infrastructure.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



neko
All Hail Canada
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Canada
reply to Plus One

+1

From me & my family, we love you JF !

We would gleefully sign any official petition in support of your endeavors.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to Plus One

It would be a shame if this was indeed some backdoor way to silence JF, as he is literally has been the voice of the public in various proceedings dating back to 5 years now...
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!



El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
reply to Plus One

This isn't a good development.



andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
reply to Plus One

I wouldn't stand for it but I'm really doubting there is anything behind it.CRTC is stupid but are they "that stupid" JF does get idea's and goes off the handle over them ala DSLR.I dont think this was a good thing to send to the CRTC at least not this week.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

said by andyb:

JF does get idea's and goes off the handle over them ala DSLR.I dont think this was a good thing to send to the CRTC at least not this week.

Ain't that the truth. Still, I don't see anything particularly out of line with this letter.


hm

@videotron.ca

1 edit
reply to andyb

said by andyb:

I dont think this was a good thing to send to the CRTC at least not this week.

The letter is very tame. Nothing wrong with it at all. Besides, best to have everything documented ASAP since they are shutting him out in current proceedings going on.

said by Guspaz:

The CRTC has been having technical problems (they even delayed some deadlines because of them), so it's a bit soon to jump to conclusions that the CRTC is trying to silence anybody and not just dealing with broken infrastructure.

The CRTC has been having tech issues for a good year. Every since the new chair. The entire site is SNAFU'd. There are many issues with it. More than what JF mentioned in his letter, or what the CRTC mentioned.

The dummy behind that government of Canada CRTC website aside, yes they are shutting him up. They didn't even bother CC'ing him procedural updates.

That isn't a "broken infrastructure" glitch, Guspaz. That is purposely shutting him out of procedural updates on top of the useless SNAFU'd website.

How is someone supposed to work with deadlines when the CRTC refuses to keep him in the loop of deadline updates? Doing all these filings is enough work. Now they just ignore him like he doesn't exist and like he's a nobody that doesn't deserve to be served with proceeding updates.

Ressa seems to think that this has something to do with the CRTC wanting to do away with "access key", as said here, »Re: CRTC 2013-80 Optional Upstream Speeds, DSL Modem Cert. But, he isn't using the old access key. He is using the newer GCkey that replaces it as they detail here:

Obligation relating to the electronic filing of applications and use of Commission forms
Replacement of Access Key with two new cyber authentication programs: Partner Log In and GCKey
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2010/···53-3.htm

and as detailed here:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/forms/form_index.htm

If they have replaced, or done away with it, should they not also update their website and these procedures to reflect this?

Seems to me GCkey is still valid, as they show here in their most current support area:
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/forms/form_404.htm

Anyhow, I'm curious what they will reply to him with.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to Plus One

 
JF's letter (linked in the OP) is completely reasonable, IMNSHO.

He just wants to know where he stands, IOW, wassup.

Some over-speculation may be taking place in this thread.

Either way, I wish JF well.



hm

@videotron.ca

said by Davesnothere:

Some over-speculation may be taking place in this thread.

Could be.

But, for a "communications regulator" with a broken website for the past year-plus that communicates what's going on to the people, and who loses and misplaces communications, well that doesn't look good either. And in effect, it does silence voices.

FYI, This isn't the first time it happens.

How does a communications regulator even be qualified to regulate when it can't even manage its very own website that has been broken for over a year and also loses communications?

The CRTC is an embarrassment.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Plus One

JF just tweeted:

It has just been confirmed to me that my submissions to #CRTC for 2013-79 and 2013-80 were not rejected. CRTC having technical glitches.

Deadline for 2013-79 and 2013-80 will likely be moved again but they must first post the missing submissions (plurial) #crtc
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to hm

said by hm :

....But, for a "communications regulator" with a broken website for the past year-plus that communicates what's going on to the people, and who loses and misplaces communications, well that doesn't look good either. And in effect, it does silence voices.

FYI, This isn't the first time it happens.

How does a communications regulator even be qualified to regulate when it can't even manage its very own website that has been broken for over a year and also loses communications?

The CRTC is an embarrassment.

 
I agree fully.

That said, would you consider that what you now say just above might have been all that needed to be said in your OP ?

(other than a simple statement of support of JF, of course)

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

JF just tweeted:

It has just been confirmed to me that my submissions to #CRTC for 2013-79 and 2013-80 were not rejected.

CRTC having technical glitches.

Deadline for 2013-79 and 2013-80 will likely be moved again but they must first post the missing submissions (plurial) #crtc

 
It must be inordinately challenging for them to try to REGULATE technology which they cannot even USE properly.

Thanks for the update.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

Saw that. Good. This "Technical glitch" must have affected who they CC notices & updates too as well.

Maybe the Canadian Communications Regulator should state they are losing communications and not providing updates to interested citizens so that people are aware when they don't see their filings. But I think that would be too hard and embarrassing for them to do.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

It must be inordinately challenging for them to try to REGULATE technology which they cannot even USE properly.

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about war?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No, I don't think I do, sir, no.

General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to hm

said by hm :

....Maybe the Canadian Communications Regulator should state they are losing communications and not providing updates to interested citizens, so that people are aware when they don't see their filings.

But I think that would be too hard and embarrassing for them to do.

 
AND, it contains a 'Catch 22'.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

That said, would you consider that what you now say just above might have been all that needed to be said in your OP ?

No.
They are indeed silencing voices the way they are operating and continue to operate. And then blame it all on "technical glitches". How many years worth of "technical glitches" is required before they do something and stop losing communications?

If JF wrote nothing about them losing GCKey submissions, as Andy seemed to imply, then chances are it would never be shown and he would have been silenced.

And that's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. There are more issues going on than just this that are silencing people. For example, they did away with incumbents CC'ing the interested parties. So if a big telco makes a rebuttal (or whatever) JF doesn't get to know about it, have time to think about it, write about it, or crowd-source it. Why? Because the CRTC is taking like a week to even put submissions up on their broken website which in turn loses time to formulate a reply (which they then conveniently lose). People have to literally wait till the CRTC thinks about when you should know about a Bell submission, rebuttal, or reply.

The whole thing stinks and it silences people.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

2 edits

said by hm :

....They [CRTC] are indeed silencing voices the way they are operating and continue to operate, and then blame it all on "technical glitches".

How many years worth of "technical glitches" is required before they do something and stop losing communications?

If JF wrote nothing about them losing GCKey submissions, as Andy seemed to imply, then chances are it would never be shown and he would have been silenced.

And that's the tip of the proverbial iceberg. There are more issues going on than just this that are silencing people.

For example, they did away with incumbents CC'ing the interested parties. So if a big telco makes a rebuttal (or whatever) JF doesn't get to know about it, have time to think about it, write about it, or crowd-source it.

Why? Because the CRTC is taking like a week to even put submissions up on their broken website which in turn loses time to formulate a reply (which they then conveniently lose).

People have to literally wait till the CRTC thinks about when you should know about a Bell submission, rebuttal, or reply.

The whole thing stinks and it silences people.

 
If what you say above is even PARTIALLY true, then it sounds like something about which Industry Canada ought to care.

Unfortunately, it felt like this thread was getting to be more about JF himself than about the loss/ignoring of his recent submissions by the CRTC being an example of a larger malaise.


hm

@videotron.ca

said by Davesnothere:

Unfortunately, it felt like this thread was getting to be more about JF himself than about the loss/ignoring of his recent submissions by the CRTC being an example of a larger malaise.

I don't see anything "unfortunate". He does a heck of a job, and maybe now you can see and have an appreciation for how demoralizing and frustrating it can get with they way they have chosen to operate and continue to maintain a broken government website like this as if there is no problem.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Plus One

Looks like they've found some submissions from March 25th that weren't posted til today..

MTS & Primus.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to hm

said by hm :

I don't see anything "unfortunate". He does a heck of a job, and maybe now you can see and have an appreciation for how demoralizing and frustrating it can get with they way they have chosen to operate and continue to maintain a broken government website like this as if there is no problem.

 
Agreed completely, but I'm simply saying that they are two separate (though in this case overlapping) issues.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Looks like they've found some submissions from March 25th that weren't posted til today..

MTS & Primus.

 
So just how big of a fish CAN the CRTC ignore ?

Hmmmm....


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

Agreed completely, but I'm simply saying that they are two separate (though in this case overlapping) issues.

1-problem + 1-problem + 1-problem + 1-problem.. +... = compounded maddening for the average joe.


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to resa1983

said by resa1983:

Looks like they've found some submissions from March 25th that weren't posted til today..

MTS & Primus.

Nice eh. This also happened to JF once before where they lost his submission then just quietly added it to the proceeding going on w/o telling anyone. No notice to anyone. Nothing. So no one knows about it and thus goes ignored. That is, unless all parties to a proceeding purposely look for missing communications to the communications regulator that mysteriously get added a week or two after the fact...

In other words, he got silenced.

Do you think this time the communications regulator will communicate their mishandling of yet another filing? They haven't to date that I'm aware of.

resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10

There's still time.. They extended the file date to April 5th. They'll need to get JF's submission up by noonish on the 5th and send out the email to everyone to tell them they're pushing it back, again.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Time for a Royal Commission to investigate the CRTC!!!


resa1983
Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:10
reply to Plus One

Really no need.

The reasoning behind the problems should be resolved in the next few weeks.

*coughs*
Relevant: »2denise.optimalworkshop.com/tree···nglish-1

Do that survey.
--
Battle.net Tech Support MVP