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Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to LazMan

Re: [TV] Where to get a cheap digital converter TV box?

said by LazMan:

There's no overlap in cableco's - that's true... BUT - to look at it from a service level; there's no service a cableco offers, that you can't get from someone else...

Internet? Cableco, TPIA, DSL, Wireless, and Cellular are all options.

TV? Cableco, OTA, DTH, IPTV, and Telco (in certain regions).

Phone? Cableco, Cellular, VoIP, ILEC, CLEC...

There's nothing Rogers offers, that you can't get from someone else... So, at least in my mind, they aren't a monopoly. I'd buy a duopoly/ogolopoly argument; but certainly not a true monopoly...

Anyways - we're playing semantics here now...

That's not quite true either. There are places where you can only get one service from, very common in the US now that AT&T and a few other companies managed to get the TPIA agreements removed(allowing companies to lease line access). And it happens here in Canada too, at my sisters place out west she has one option for most of her services. And that's telus, there is no other competition. Not for cell(unless you want to pay through the nose for extra), not for internet(there is no competition at all), you can get the three satellite providers, but there is no OTA service. But if you want I think it's bell they charge you extra to come out to do the install. And phone? The only company that will provide service is Telus.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to simon726

said by simon726:

Is there a limit on how many DTAs are we allowed to get?

You are limited by the number of outlets that are registered to your account.


cpsycho

join:2008-06-03
HarperLand
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·Wightman Telecom
reply to TOPDAWG

You need one of rogers boxes to view rogers stations. In orangeville they are switching over to digital, my tv has a digital tuner. The digital signals are encrypted except for the music stations. Is rogers encrypting basic cable and basic cable +, yes, is rogers making you require a box yes, is it free, yes (you get as many as the outlets you pay for, from what I understand), is this making you spend more on electricity, yes. Is this a douche move by rogers, yes.


simon726

join:2006-12-21
Ajax, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

Is there a limit on how many DTAs are we allowed to get?



elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

Anyways - we're playing semantics here now...

IMHO it becomes a monopoly when there is no viable competition to force the incumbent to keep their prices in check. Perfect example: Rogers internet prices/packages Ontario vs Rogers internet prices/packages east coast.

Rogers has proven they will suck the life out of any market should the opportunity arise. It's not about remaining profitable. It's about sheer vicious corporate greed.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to Mashiki

said by Mashiki:

That's not really true. Take a look at carriage and deployment rules in the US, where there are mandated monopolies. The *insert company* is the only game in town, much like what is happening in places here. You have no other option, but there is other options when you're outside of their mandated area.

There's no overlap in cableco's - that's true... BUT - to look at it from a service level; there's no service a cableco offers, that you can't get from someone else...

Internet? Cableco, TPIA, DSL, Wireless, and Cellular are all options.

TV? Cableco, OTA, DTH, IPTV, and Telco (in certain regions).

Phone? Cableco, Cellular, VoIP, ILEC, CLEC...

There's nothing Rogers offers, that you can't get from someone else... So, at least in my mind, they aren't a monopoly. I'd buy a duopoly/ogolopoly argument; but certainly not a true monopoly...

Anyways - we're playing semantics here now...


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

You can't call Rogers's a monopoly; while telling us about the other services you use, instead... If they were a monopoly, you'd have no other options.

That's not really true. Take a look at carriage and deployment rules in the US, where there are mandated monopolies. The *insert company* is the only game in town, much like what is happening in places here. You have no other option, but there is other options when you're outside of their mandated area.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to yyzlhr

i dont no what the issue is, they were selling 2 roger boxes at The Source... Buy Circuit City maybe 2 or 3 years ago, on clearance sale, i grabbed the last 2 of them, paid 40 bucks each, and I OWNED them, no rental fees, plus it was way cheeper than what wal marrt nor future shop or best buy were charging for em
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to Epichappy

said by Epichappy:

Wait... people have actually got clear QAM to work? I was trying to get that to function for far too long... I could have sworn they were using SDV and the "converter" was talking to the network................

I think it's area specific. Some have reported that clearQAM is working. In my area, you get next to nothing on clearQAM.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

I don't think Roger's are saints - they are in business to make money, just like every other business in the world. But I also don't think they are evil incarnate; either...

There is such a thing as morals and ethics. Robbing people blind just because you can hardly qualifies as good business ethics and corporate responsibility. Everyone agrees Rogers has the right to be profitable. Price gouging is a whole different story.................

Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

Wait... people have actually got clear QAM to work? I was trying to get that to function for far too long... I could have sworn they were using SDV and the "converter" was talking to the network................



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to Sickened

You have to pick a position...

You can't call Rogers's a monopoly; while telling us about the other services you use, instead... If they were a monopoly, you'd have no other options.

I don't think Roger's are saints - they are in business to make money, just like every other business in the world. But I also don't think they are evil incarnate; either...



Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

Roger's isn't a monopoly...

There's broadcast (OTA) channels; Shaw Direct and Bell Satellite TV.

Plus TV isn't an essential service; you're just fine (some would argue, better off, even) without it.

Well sure, it's not a monopoly it's much closer to a Duopoly than anything else. A CRTC mandated one at that, where only specific providers may operate. Let me know when I can get satellite service from the US will ya?

Sickened

join:2013-07-15
London, ON
reply to LazMan

Satellite TV is useless in severe overcast conditions and their packages are force fed.
I don't want porn or french programming but they make you take them because they have to go with certain movie packages. Same with sports... I like playing sports not watching them.
Yes... Bell and OTA is another monopoly.
Why does Rogers encryption have to be unique?
Why can't I just go out and buy my own box and not have to have my use monitored by Rogers?
Here's a for instance....
I had Rogers internet... One of my band mates needed a copy of one of our ORIGINAL songs. I had to go out so, I set up an FTP.. I only had the one file in it and it was not copyrighted. A week later I get a nasty letter from Rogers and a suspended account for running an FTP and being called a pirate and thief.
They were wrong, ignorant and rude with me.
Why do they monitor your web presence? Now they want to give me a box that has a mac address so they can monitor what channels I watch. Crazy stuff. I will never be sold on Rogers again.
A buddy at work used to think Rogers was the best until he got his Netflix account hooked up on his PC. No one warned him about watching Hi-Def movies... Besides me. His next bill was over $600.00... LOL No word of a lie! Others at work complain about the costs for the Rogers phone apps like TV Anywhere and the overcharging for data use using them.
I don't think Rogers wants you going elsewhere to watch TV or movies. I think this was part of the reason why they wanted to squeeze out the competition by wanting them all capped on bandwidth. Thankfully that hasn't gone through....yet. I use a non capped, wide open service provider that is half of the cost of Rogers and has a way better up time as well. I am never down and their tech support speaks clear English without the horrendous hold times and run around. I stream TV from the net without having to assume the position. If you don't mind paying ridiculous money for basic cable which gives you a lame selection or paying through the nose for their upgraded subscription to give you a few more channels of filler and pretty much crap and can afford to throw your money away, then by all means do so.
I am only stating a fact here. We are paying way too much for crappy programming and when we try to go to an alternate source they try getting paid from it as well or they try to shut it down.
Yes they are a monopoly.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to Sickened

You don't have to pay anything to get those channels back. They provide adapters for free to get the channels you previously received on analogue. Cable companies are the only providers that still have analogue service. Satellite and IP providers have been digital since the get go and you have to rent boxes for every single one of your TVs. With cable subscribers complaining about how their provider isn't carrying certain channels or that internet speeds are too slow, the cable companies have no choice but to start going all digital.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to Sickened

Roger's isn't a monopoly...

There's broadcast (OTA) channels; Shaw Direct and Bell Satellite TV.

Plus TV isn't an essential service; you're just fine (some would argue, better off, even) without it.


Sickened

join:2013-07-15
London, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

Isn't a better question.... Why isn't everyone complaining to the CRTC about this Rogers monopoly bleeding us all dry just to watch commercial pelted shows?
47 went digital and now you have to rent a box and then pay a subscription fee to get it back?
Poor schmucks that live out in the boonies have to buy special adapters to watch local news and stations now? I am surprised that they don't have to be Rogers only adapters as well. I bet they tried though.
I loved my wall mounted smart tv. now I have to have some junky box mounted somewhere just because of a greedy corporation wanting to make me pay hundreds per month so I can watch crappy programming to take my mind off of the reaming I am getting from the other high and overpriced companies that are pricing us out of our cars, groceries and homes.
What is the CRTC good for anyway? They certainly aren't here for the tax payers.
Seems like everything and pretty much anyone can be bought these days.
Sorry,
I am just amazed and surprised that everyone is just going with it and no one is complaining that it is not right. They have the holds on the cable and have squeezed out most of the competition so, ya you could go sat. but not fun when the weather is bad. Shame on Rogers for their insatiable greed and I hope Karma has its way with them.
This post will likely be pulled, if it even gets posted but I just had to speak my mind and use my right to freedom of speech... before Rogers makes another deal to have the charter of right amended LOL.
Someone save us from these greedy monopolies and awaken the sheep we've become.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to OLDYELLR

you know that also happened to me once. I was getting VIP but paying for basic. Damn if I knew it but looked at my bill one day and was like WTF I'm sure getting a lot for basic it seems.

I had no idea. I even called rogers and told them about it. Called once 2 weeks later still had VIP then called again guy said well if you called before and you still get the extra channels enjoy them. It was like that for over a year then they did upgrades in the area and fixed it.

I did order VIP but I guess they did not update my bill but just unlocked the pack for me. think I was paying 40 something a month when it should have been 80 something.


OLDYELLR

join:2003-04-05
Woodstock, ON
reply to LazMan

Yeah, if the OP cancelled the cable service and Rogers didn't disconnect it, it's their problem. It's like if you discover you can see channels you don't believe are part of your plan. Rogers can't bill you extra if they made a mistake.

However, even if the OP got a DTA from someone who had an extra (I have 4 and I'm only using one at present), it has to be authorized by phone to work and if you don't have a Rogers account, your phone number will not be recognized.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to TOPDAWG

Technically, OLDYELLR See Profile is right... It's considered "theft of service" - you don't have to do anything overt - if you're using something you're not legally entitled to use, it's theft...

That said, I really doubt anyone around here's going to rustle up a posse, and come lookin' for you...



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
reply to OLDYELLR

how am I stealing? I called them canceled it damn if it's my doing they never put a blocker on my line. I did not lift a finger to keep cable. Now they going digital anyway they won't need the blockers. it'll stop working one day.


OLDYELLR

join:2003-04-05
Woodstock, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

Well, if you're stealing the cable service, you could try breaking into a Rogers store and steal a box. But it will have to be authorized, so you may still be SOL.


vincom

join:2009-03-06
Bolton, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Anveo
·TekSavvy Cable

1 recommendation

reply to Hooter

said by Hooter:

True, but the links posted from Kijiji are for a Rogers box, not a third party non-Rogers box. If TOPDAWG had a legitimate cable account with Rogers, he could possibly purchase one of these and have it activated by Rogers. He would of course have to verify the serial number with Rogers to ensure it is registered in their data base and that the previous customer had deactivated it on their account. A number of people have been burned by purchasing used boxes without first verifying that the box is legitimate and can be activated.

My point though still stands. Without a legitimate Cable account, there is no way that TOPDAWG will get any Rogers box activated, no matter where it is purchased!

Bingo, once rogers switches your area to "their digital" service you can no longer receive analogue or digital channels w/out a registered and activated rogers box


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

As for the state of the Barrie system - it's in a bit of a flux right now - Rogers has partially converted - my parents in Alliston just got the DTA hardware a couple weeks ago; it appears to be happening in a staged program, rather then all at once... Barrie's cable network is a bit of a mashup, due to geography (it's a large area served by the head-end).

I had forgotten about the Allison sub. It actually has multiple centres, including Allison. Each acts somewhat independently and fed, not by Barrie, but by Master Control in Toronto.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by Hooter:

True, but the links posted from Kijiji are for a Rogers box, not a third party non-Rogers box. If TOPDAWG had a legitimate cable account with Rogers, he could possibly purchase one of these and have it activated by Rogers. He would of course have to verify the serial number with Rogers to ensure it is registered in their data base and that the previous customer had deactivated it on their account. A number of people have been burned by purchasing used boxes without first verifying that the box is legitimate and can be activated.

My point though still stands. Without a legitimate Cable account, there is no way that TOPDAWG will get any Rogers box activated, no matter where it is purchased!

And Rogers may say "Sorry. That's linked to another account." And it's not the serial number but the MAC address.

It's VERY common to find "rental" Rogers boxes listed for sale on CL/Kijijji, too... You call Rogers and get a nasty surprise.

Only sure way is the legit way - order a box (rental or purchase) from Rogers themselves... I do know people that have bought CL boxes, but before completing the transaction with the seller, called Rogers, and confirmed the box isn't stolen/rental and doesn't have an outstanding balance on the attached account.

As for the state of the Barrie system - it's in a bit of a flux right now - Rogers has partially converted - my parents in Alliston just got the DTA hardware a couple weeks ago; it appears to be happening in a staged program, rather then all at once... Barrie's cable network is a bit of a mashup, due to geography (it's a large area served by the head-end).


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to sm5w2

said by sm5w2:

> Orillia, Midland, Collingwood and Grey County are all part of the
> Barrie system and it is all now digital.

Well either you are wrong or TopDawg is wrong. Topdawg is complaining about the loss of a few upper-tier analog specialty channels, not the loss of ALL analog channels.

When they changed over, no channel assignments were changed. What was analogue is now all digital.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to DKS

> Orillia, Midland, Collingwood and Grey County are all part of the
> Barrie system and it is all now digital.

Well either you are wrong or TopDawg is wrong. Topdawg is complaining about the loss of a few upper-tier analog specialty channels, not the loss of ALL analog channels.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to sm5w2

said by sm5w2:

So unless that information is wrong, I don't see how you are missing any of the basic cable channels - they are all still available on Rogers in Midland in analog format - no cable box required.

The information may not be updated. I'll ask next time I am in the shop. Orillia, Midland, Collingwood and Grey County are all part of the Barrie system and it is all now digital.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

2 edits
reply to sm5w2

well I lost so far TCM and peachtree but I only wanted in the heat of the night on there and lost TELETOON but looks like I will lose HGTV next month and I watch that a good bit in the background.

So I'll just lose more and more as time goes on. oh well if I could do something easy to make the channels work I would but fork if I'm paying 30 plus a month for that crap. man even with a basic digital adapter you got to call and get it turned on.

Here I was thinking you could just get a digital adapter and it would just work on your basic cable channels and get the ones that went digital back. Looks like I was wrong. guess I'm forked then thanks guys. here is the one rogers makes had no idea you still had to call in before you can use them.

»www.rogershelp.com/DigitalCable-···id=117-0



sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to TOPDAWG

> was thinking it would just act as a dumb box to let me get back
> the basic cable channels that went digital.

If you go to this web-page:

»www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.portal···&group=1

In the lower right-hand side there is a "Channel Line-ups" selector where you can select various types of channels, if you select "Channels available WITHOUT A DIGITAL ADAPTER" and select "Midland", Rogers comes back with a rather full list of channels in Midland from channel 2 through 55 and a handful from 70 to 130.

So unless that information is wrong, I don't see how you are missing any of the basic cable channels - they are all still available on Rogers in Midland in analog format - no cable box required.