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neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL

Speaking of CB....

Okay... Since DSLR decided to go April Fool on us, let me ask this...

Why don't they have a radio, similar to the Yaesu FT-857D (and other variants), that have 11m built into them? With all of the computer control, it would be easy to get the radio to drop to 4w AM for those of us who still use CB, but don't want to have two radios in their vehicle.

The only thing I could think of is CB isn't popular enough with amateurs to incorporate it. That and since the radio would be capable of 100w, the urge to crank the radio up in 11m would be overwhelming for some...

If the radio was type accepted for amateur use, wouldn't it be accepted for 11m, or could the radio be dual type accepted?
--
"F is for Fire that burns down the whole town...
U is for Uranium...... Bombs...
N is for NO SURVIVORS!!!!!" Sheldon Plankton

Keep Calm and Carry On



John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:8

SKs are rolling over...lol



drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
reply to neonhomer

Well, for one, the market would be too small. YaeComWood couldn't make much money on it, so I doubt they'd even consider it.
And they'd have to make sure it was REALLY tamper-proof, driving up the cost even further.
As far as dual type-acceptance, that would be for the FCC to decide, and with the glut of 100+ Watt "10 Meter" radios out there, I really don't think they'd be disposed to allow it.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.


moes

join:2009-11-15
Cedar City, UT
Reviews:
·Revol Wireless
·Optimum Online
reply to neonhomer

I can picture this know, we've already got some skips here where i live that can totally keydown anybody and they can be heard for most of the state. I'd hate to see what would happen if they were given the ability to have a really fancy unit like this.



SmokChsr
Who let the magic smoke out?
Premium
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL
reply to neonhomer

I don't have a 10M radio but I thought that's what they all did already.. Well not the 4W part..



drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3

Some of them are very easy to modify (cut the green wire), and have features more for CB (roger beeps, echo chambers) than for Amateur radio use.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.



DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1
reply to neonhomer

The way the respective FCC rules [Parts 95 and 97] are written, amateur radio is amateur radio and CB is CB, and never the twain shall meet.

In practice, I've seen a lot of amateur equipment with 11m capability. It's just not legal to transmit on CB using amateur equipment, even at 4W.


PL239

join:2013-06-17
Aliquippa, PA
reply to neonhomer

The citizens band radio service falls under the umbrella of the Part 95 - not allowed to exceed 4 watts AM or 12 watts PEP SSB.

The Amateur Radio service, after 1958 - all amateur radio equipment - other then a approved MARS operator - is not allowed to operate on the 11 meters portion of the band, nor are they allowed to modify their transceiver so it will operate out of band. MARS is not a part of amateur radio - since it is Military Affiliated Radio Service and not conducted on the amateur bands.

At one time no new amplifiers were allowed to be designed to operate below 15 meters.. 2 meter amplifiers were excluded.

When you operate amateur radio equipment on non amateur radio frequencies - regardless of how much power output you use, you are illegal - since amateurs must identify with their call sign every 10 minutes and CB radio no longer uses or requires a call sign.

You risk penalties and loosing your license when you operate on 11 meters. All it would take would be for a O&O to hear you.
The world is small and getting smaller every day.....

There is a modification for most transceivers to use them out of frequency. It usually requires removing some type of blocking diode or resistor.



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to neonhomer

It will never happen. The overwhelming majority of HAMs are complete snobs when it comes to CB Radio. Even if it cost nothing extra and it was a good radio many would boycott it.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS
reply to neonhomer

I have a Heathkit DX-100 AM/CW Transmitter with 11m built in.

»heathkit-museum.com/ham/hvmdx-100.shtml

Probably would be legal to use on 11m as well, because it was designed and built long before 11m equipment required any FCC type acceptance.

It has 11m because 11m used to be a ham band back in the early 1950's.

Problem is, it pushes a good 100 watts in AM mode, even if you could get it down to 4w carrier, you're still going to have 90w sidebands when you add the audio.

Double Sideband-Suppressed Carrier sounds like a whole lot of too much if you aren't using a synchronous detector receiver.

However, most of what you hear on 11m these days is a whole lot of too much, so I'll stick to 10m, and let 11m stick to itself(pun intended).
--
ROCK 'TIL SUNSET


PL239

join:2013-06-17
Aliquippa, PA
reply to neonhomer

reply to neonhomer
It will never happen. The overwhelming majority of HAMs are complete snobs when it comes to CB Radio. Even if it cost nothing extra and it was a good radio many would boycott it..

It has absolutely nothing to do with that.
Amateur Radio only allows us as amateurs to operate our equipment on the amateur radio frequencies given to us.

we are not allowed to operate our equipment on any other radio service. This includes GMRS , LMRS , CB , MARS - this includes Fire, Police, Ambulance, Forest Fire Service what ever.

If we do get caught, we risk loosing our license.

It has nothing to do with being snobs or wanting something or not wanting something.

Most any ham radio made before 1958 that does all of the ham bands will do 11 meters - Johnson Viking Valiant is just one example.

It's not illegal for a unlicensed person to operate on 11 meters with a radio that produces more then 4 watts - as long as their equipment does not cause interference with any other radio service - including television.

But if you do cause interference and someone complains - you must open your house / station for a inspection.
When the FCC comes a knocking - you have to open the door and let them in.

There was one case here where someone was causing harmful interference to a established emergency net on the amateur radio frequencies and the FCC came ( within about 3 hours ) with 3 Federal Marshal's.

You will never hear these stories because if it is an emergency and you refuse to leave a authorized designated emergency frequency and they want it bad enough - you will find out who the FCC really is.

The bottom line is when something like that happens, they have the authority to take all of your equipment, not just the illegal equipment.
They can, and will - just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer.

There is no way to regulate the Citizens Band, due to the sheer number of units produced in the last 40 + years and due to the sheer number of operators around the world.

The best thing that they could do would be to re establish the call sign system and license system and allow everyone to choose if they would like to have the license back.
Use the money from the license sales for enforcement of the rules.

If you would throw the worst offenders off the air and into jail and not have lenient judges that reduces the severity of the fines and punishment - we could clean up the airways...



DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1

4 edits

1 recommendation

Even though CB no longer requires a license, Part 95 still applies.

Transmitter power is still limited to 4 watts AM [12 watts PEP on SSB]. Only a type accepted transmitter may be used.

Doing anything else automatically voids the station's authority to operate.

Here's a somewhat instructive NAL from two years ago:
»transition.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/201···0A1.html

CB rules are here:
»www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=···&idno=47

FWIW I agree about throwing the worst offenders off the air. If the FCC made a few more examples, it would go a long way toward cleaning up the trash on 11m.

Self-policing on the amateur bands is generally working, but it takes the FCC a long time to act even when given copious evidence by several teams of OOs.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
reply to PL239

said by PL239:

we are not allowed to operate our equipment on any other radio service. This includes GMRS , LMRS , CB , MARS - this includes Fire, Police, Ambulance, Forest Fire Service what ever.

You can use modified amateur equipment on MARS and CAP as long as you have a license and authorization to operate there. I knew a HAM who was active using his modified 2 meter radio for MARS.

said by PL239:

It's not illegal for a unlicensed person to operate on 11 meters with a radio that produces more then 4 watts - as long as their equipment does not cause interference with any other radio service - including television.

The CFR says otherwise:

quote:
§ 95.410 (CB Rule 10) How much power may I use?
(a) Your CB station transmitter power output must not exceed the following values under any conditions:

AM (A3)—4 watts (carrier power) SSB—12 watts (peak envelope power)

(b) If you need more information about the power rule, see the technical rules in subpart E of part 95.

(c) Use of a transmitter which has carrier or peak envelope power in excess of that authorized voids your authority to operate the station.
said by PL239:

They can, and will - just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer.

No, the FCC will not do that. They will take your equipment and issue a receipt. There is something called due process. And I do know of a local case where some moron with an linear amp played havoc on my TV and the local FCC knew who he was (drove a Chevy Astro van.) They raided him 2 weeks after I talked to 2 FCC guys who happened to be shopping in the CompUSA I worked at the time.


neonhomer
KK4BFN
Premium
join:2004-01-27
Edgewater, FL
reply to neonhomer

Wow.... this escalated quickly. I just was simply wanting to reduce the number of radios in my vehicle. A CB + 2m, or whichever, wasn't an attempt to be able to run 75 watts on 11m. It was to simplify things some, and eliminate a microphone.


b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
reply to neonhomer

Last weekend during field day I mention I saw a 10-11 meter radio for sale on our local Craigslist. One of the older Ham's spoke up real quick and said it must be an import because 11 meter radio's in the US are no allowed to transmit on any other band. So he cautioned against buying it.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


PL239

join:2013-06-17
Aliquippa, PA
reply to moonpuppy

Yes I did think that I mentioned MARS somewhere else- maybe you didn't read it.

Yes a non licensed person can operate on 11 meters with more then 5 watts - due to the fact that the FCC is broke and only prosecutes the worst offenders.
You practically have to interfere with a known radio service such as public service before they will do anything.

To get the FCC to do anything, you have to have recordings with date / time stamps and you have to have witnesses.
Especially for the CB radio - which is almost impossible to enforce, because there is no call signs.

Civilian Air Patrol is a real sticky maybe - due to the fact that it is not a part of Amateur Radio - and as amateurs we are not allowed to operate our equipment out of band.

The CAP is not within the amateur radio bands.
Re read the Part 97...

MARS = Military Amateur Radio Service - note the word Amateur..
Mars does require the operator - other then a military service person to be a licensed amateur.

Civilian Air patrol does not require it's licensee's to be proficient in any aspect of amateur radio, no knowledge of the rules and no amateur radio license requirement.

Technicially it is not even a radio service - just a LMRS type frequency.



drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3

Actually, it's the Military Auxiliary Radio System.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.


mocycler
Premium
join:2001-01-22
kudos:1
reply to neonhomer

First, the bit about "the FCC came ( within about 3 hours ) with 3 Federal Marshal's" and "just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer" is the biggest steamy pile of internet bullshit I've seen in a very long time. I'm willing to bet a heap o'cash that there in absolutely no documentation of this incident because it is complete lie.

As for integrating CBs into ham equipment, it certainly is technically possible but I'm guessing the market for such gear is too small to justify the R&D costs, plus the legalities of getting FCC type acceptance.

I considered setting up a CB base station to go with my ham stuff, then decided against the idea because I could not see spending $100 on coax to hookup a $25, four watt AM radio that was of limited usefulness anyway.

All the rules for CB radio that existed before deregulation are still in effect. Of course, enforcement is an entirely different matter. You have to do quite a bit to get the attention of the FCC these days, and they almost never go after problem CB operators. It's pretty much the honor system out there, even for ham and commercial installations. And yes, getting busted takes a lot longer than three hours.


moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

said by mocycler:

First, the bit about "the FCC came ( within about 3 hours ) with 3 Federal Marshal's" and "just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer" is the biggest steamy pile of internet bullshit I've seen in a very long time. I'm willing to bet a heap o'cash that there in absolutely no documentation of this incident because it is complete lie.

I know they won't smash it but the one case near me, they did need Baltimore City Police because the subject in question had a long record with both the local and federal authorities. I know they did take a ton of his stuff because I drove by there one day and his Chevy Astro van was missing the monster antenna on top as well as all the antennas on the house. (He was also missing his prized dragsters but that's another story.)

Smashing the equipment is like destruction of evidence.

Since most CB stuff is AM, why bother? Four watts on AM doesn't get too far and I had much better luck with SSB. It wasn't until later that I realized why CB was FM (lack of bandwidth.)


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to PL239

said by PL239:

But if you do cause interference and someone complains - you must open your house / station for a inspection.
When the FCC comes a knocking - you have to open the door and let them in.

They better bring a warrant if they want in.

There was one case here where someone was causing harmful interference to a established emergency net on the amateur radio frequencies and the FCC came ( within about 3 hours ) with 3 Federal Marshal's.

said by PL239:

Yes a non licensed person can operate on 11 meters with more then 5 watts - due to the fact that the FCC is broke and only prosecutes the worst offenders.

I can only guess they must have found some instant funding that day.

They can, and will - just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer.

Absolute bull crap.


DrStrange
Technically feasible
Premium
join:2001-07-23
West Hartford, CT
kudos:1

1 recommendation

said by 54067323:

said by PL239:

But if you do cause interference and someone complains - you must open your house / station for a inspection.
When the FCC comes a knocking - you have to open the door and let them in.

They better bring a warrant if they want in.

*Read 47 USC 303n. They don't need a warrant.

There was one case here where someone was causing harmful interference to a established emergency net on the amateur radio frequencies and the FCC came ( within about 3 hours ) with 3 Federal Marshal's.

said by PL239:

Yes a non licensed person can operate on 11 meters with more then 5 watts - due to the fact that the FCC is broke and only prosecutes the worst offenders.

I can only guess they must have found some instant funding that day.

**The only way anyone would show up in 3 hours is if the OOs had found the jammer 2 months ago, sent the info to the FCC, the FCC had done its field work last month and the jammer keyed his mic on the right frequency at the right time. Jammers will be found and prosecuted, but it takes a long time.

They can, and will - just take it all out into the driveway and smash it with a sledgehammer.

Absolute bull crap.


Surrendering unauthorized or illegal equipment to the FCC and allowing them to destroy it is one option. The FCC can and will go to court to seize the equipment if it isn't handed over. I'm not sure that taking it outside and bashing it with a sledgehammer constitutes proper FCC procedure, though.

Source:
»transition.fcc.gov/eb/otherinfo/inspect.html

iknow_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to neonhomer

said by neonhomer:

Wow.... this escalated quickly. I just was simply wanting to reduce the number of radios in my vehicle. A CB + 2m, or whichever, wasn't an attempt to be able to run 75 watts on 11m. It was to simplify things some, and eliminate a microphone.

you can run all the gear on 1 microphone legally. you'd have to make a switchbox though. also, there are under seat and trunk mount options too. you'd just have the control heads near the dash.