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morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
reply to yyzlhr

Re: [DSL] A paying customer of more than 4yrs is not worth $25

i agree wording is misleading as everything is a linespeed change the reason the charge is greater is because its a actual Product change
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


Sunfox

join:2003-12-14
Markham, ON

2 recommendations

reply to TSI Marc

Maybe you need a little Javascript thing with two pull-down service-type boxes and a dollar total.

"I have:", "I would like:", and "This is what it will cost:".


padenom

join:2008-03-28
Montreal, QC
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by graniterock:

Regardless.... the wording is confusing. Hopefully this thread will lead to someone from TSI reworking the wording on the website.

If everybody agrees that this is what it needs to say.. I'll make sure it gets changed...

Actually they don't only need to reword the other charges section but also general descriptions on the plan descriptions. I checked the 7/1, 10/1 and 15/1 - no where it says anything about it being a different technology or tier.

The above three plans are very effective in telling you how long you need to wait to download a song, video or a movie and the price tag. Nowhere do I see anything about it being different technology. Moreover, it actually has the same paragraph For our DSL customers..... that is there on the 6/0.8 GAS plan!!

So when the OP (or any other non-tech savvy person who doesn't know anything about DSL or xDSL7++) says that all that he wants is a speed change, I think they are right to a certain extent. What is required for Teksavvy is to go and dust the cobwebs on their web site?

PS: Any person who bought their DSL modem from Teksavvy in the last 3-4years would have atleast gotten a Speedtouch 516 which is ADSL2+ capable and from the point-of-view of the user it is just a speed change.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX

Honestly with the Price drop on the Install fee i would Just go and change the Line Speed Cost to $50 for everything rather than have 2 prices it would be simplier and everyone would be able to understand it in plan english changing speed $50 dollars.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 recommendation

said by morisato:

Honestly with the Price drop on the Install fee i would Just go and change the Line Speed Cost to $50 for everything rather than have 2 prices it would be simpler and everyone would be able to understand it in plan english changing speed $50 dollars.

Ya, or just say "up to $50" then only charge $25 for simple profile adjustments. Nobody is going to complain when the price charged is less than expected.

geokilla

join:2010-10-04
North York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

1 edit
reply to yyzlhr

said by yyzlhr:

said by danwforums:

Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".

TSI is different in that the operate on extremely tight margins and cannot afford to hand out credits. If you switch to another TPIA, expect their approach in regards to monetary adjustments to be the same.

The big guys on the other hand operate on very large margins and will generally just cave in to a request for a credit adjustment of $50 or less in order to get you off the phone and move on to the next customer.

That is incorrect... Other TPIAs are handling this better than Teksavvy. $5 TPIA to ATPIA... Dry loop fees just as an example. So unless those guys are losing money for every subscriber they have, Teksavvy margins are definitely there.

LanAdmin

join:2010-11-07
Montreal, QC
reply to danwforums

Speed change between DSL 6, 7, 10, 15 doesn't require any change from client side or Bell side. Same modem. It's only a profile change. The cost is pure profit for Bell.


yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

said by yyzlhr:

said by danwforums:

Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".

TSI is different in that the operate on extremely tight margins and cannot afford to hand out credits. If you switch to another TPIA, expect their approach in regards to monetary adjustments to be the same.

The big guys on the other hand operate on very large margins and will generally just cave in to a request for a credit adjustment of $50 or less in order to get you off the phone and move on to the next customer.

That is incorrect... Other TPIAs are handling this better than Teksavvy. $5 TPIA to ATPIA... Dry loop fees just as an example. So unless those guys are losing money for every subscriber they have, Teksavvy margins are definitely there.

The fee you're quoting is not relevant in this case, and Teksavvy will be charging the same amount in the same scenario that you quoted.

My point is that TPIAs would be hardpressed to provide any sort of monetary compensation to customers unless it's absolutely clear that the TPIA provider and only the TPIA provider has wronged the customer. Aside from the OP's scenario, this fact has been clearly demonstrated by the fact that Teksavvy and other TPIAs don't provide provide credits during service outages.

This is in contrast to the incumbent providers where monetary compensation can be provided even in cases where the provider is not at fault. This is due to the fact that incumbents enjoy significantly larger profit margins and would prefer to simply bribe you to stop complaining after a certain amount of bickering.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to geokilla

said by geokilla:

said by yyzlhr:

said by danwforums:

Semi-related, I should point out that the last two times I've had a customer complaint with both Bell and Rogers their CSRs agreed that I had a valid point and did what was necessary to make it right. And in both interactions I spent less time on hold than for this issue. So I guess TSI is "different" I'm just not convinced it's "in a good way".

TSI is different in that the operate on extremely tight margins and cannot afford to hand out credits. If you switch to another TPIA, expect their approach in regards to monetary adjustments to be the same.

The big guys on the other hand operate on very large margins and will generally just cave in to a request for a credit adjustment of $50 or less in order to get you off the phone and move on to the next customer.

That is incorrect... Other TPIAs are handling this better than Teksavvy. $5 TPIA to ATPIA... Dry loop fees just as an example. So unless those guys are losing money for every subscriber they have, Teksavvy margins are definitely there.

No what you're saying is false. The only ones that really offers the clear better value are EBOX & Distributel, everyone else has their trade offs for including dry loop and waiving other fees.

Acanac rate-limits at peak hours.

Start doesn't offer unlimited above 6Meg on either technology and most of their capped packages are more expensive than TekSavvy's either in price or the data quota allowed.

There's CIKTel, but there's posts of congestion at peak hours that isn't local, nothing confirmed really since there's only 8 total reviews for them.

And a lot of the DSL third party providers have still kept the $95-100 activation on ADSL2+ and VDSL.

So no, only a few other providers are in general cheaper if you look at entire picture.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to LanAdmin

said by LanAdmin:

Speed change between DSL 6, 7, 10, 15 doesn't require any change from client side or Bell side. Same modem. It's only a profile change. The cost is pure profit for Bell.

That is not always true a dsl 6 Could be co-fed on a DSlam goes to 7/10/15 would need to be moved to a different slam in the co at a minimum if not switched to a remote with a Stinger or 7330 in it.

For example a good friend of mine was fed by a Dslam from his co for about 3 years he upgraded his speed and magically he is now fed by a flsam on a different OE, That tells you Yes even though hes still co fed they did have to move wires and a truck roll to his co was required.
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


EdT

join:2009-06-12
Saint-Laurent, QC
reply to danwforums

This another stupid decision on BHell's part not to move everyone over from GAS to FTTN seemliness without anyone knowing. This was precisely what happened with their pulse tone POTS line. BHell tried to force legacy customers with pulse tone over to more expensive touch tone, but lost the CRTC class action suit, so now these idiots have to operate two separate system. A year ago they increase the cost of pulse tone service to be more expensive than their tone touch service so they can ween out their old customers to touch tone. I have finally switched over to tone tone where they normally increase their monthly rates twice a year. Every year I have to call their their retention department to get a discount. So now I pay $20 less per month for my POTS line. The thing is they get away with 99.9% of their customers who don't call in to complain.



nanook
Premium,MVM
join:2007-12-02
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

Sure, the less confusing language looks like this...
If everybody agrees that this is what it needs to say.. I'll make sure it gets changed...

WADR I think you're missing the whole point of this thread. While what follows is critical, it's meant in a constructive way to benefit your customers.

Most TekSavvy customers aren't technically savvy. Nor are they lawyers. They don't want (or need) to know the difference between GAS and FTTN, between ADSL and VDSL, between a speed change and a tier change. They don't care if these charges are applied by Bell or by you, whether you pass them on without adding margin or you make a pot full of money on them, etc.

You need to simplify this. You need to explain in plain English (and French) so that there are no misunderstandings when the customers call to order an upgrade and no surprises when the techs, and later the invoices, arrive. Like the OP they don't want to feel like they've been misled or cheated.

You're in the communications business. Start communicating. Lose the jargon. Add some graphics. Make it clear if their existing modem will work or if they'll need to rent a new one for $8/month (that isn't mentioned in the price.) Etc.

P.S. While I (hopefully) have your attention, please also remember that only a very small percentage of your customer base know about this forum let alone monitor it on a regular basis. The rest of them don't even know about the changes we're discussing here. So speaking of "tiers" ISTM you need to think about how to include this majority — your largest customer tier — in TSI's customer communications strategy.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by HiVolt:

Yeah exactly... What a clusterfuck, CRTC just let them do this garbage...

Well, there is a plausible truck roll to switch the line between DSLAMs and truck rolls are expensive no matter how trivial work order might be.

Yeah, but that should just be a cost of doing business for them... They are making a killing now on CBB rates...

You don't see cable companies charging the end user for node splits, or silly dryloop fees...
--


JeanInNepean

join:2012-09-19
Nepean, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy TekTalk
·voip.ms
·Primus Talkbroad..
reply to nanook

said by nanook:

Most TekSavvy customers aren't technically savvy. Nor are they lawyers. They don't want (or need) to know the difference between GAS and FTTN, between ADSL and VDSL, between a speed change and a tier change. They don't care if these charges are applied by Bell or by you, whether you pass them on without adding margin or you make a pot full of money on them, etc.

You need to simplify this. You need to explain in plain English (and French) so that there are no misunderstandings when the customers call to order an upgrade and no surprises when the techs, and later the invoices, arrive. Like the OP they don't want to feel like they've been misled or cheated.

I agree. You get a lot more frustrated customers if you provide insufficient information than if you provide too much.

darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

Yeah, but that should just be a cost of doing business for them... They are making a killing now on CBB rates...

You don't see cable companies charging the end user for node splits, or silly dryloop fees...

You mean that Bell is making a killing right and that they should eat these costs?

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

You don't see cable companies charging the end user for node splits, or silly dryloop fees...

You do not see cablecos running individual coax from the HFC box to homes the way each home has its own dedicated pair to maintain on DSL/POTS so maintenance/operating costs aren't quite the same there and you do not see Bell charging for installing remotes either.

On cable, speed changes are just a profile change on shared QAMs so there is no imminent physical change requirement associated with individual speed changes and node splits could be avoided by adding QAMs but cablecos are favoring smaller nodes before extra QAMs, likely to improve signal quality and reduce the number of in-line amplifiers per node since amplifiers add and amplify noise too... this used to be a major problem ~20 years ago, before cablecos started adding HFC to fix rampant signal quality issues, particularly near the end-of-lines where OTA signals and noise often overpowered cable signals.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to danwforums

said by danwforums:

So as many others noticed, the price drops appeared on the Teksavvy site a while ago.
Last week I checked all the new prices, checked all the fees listed at teksavvy.com and called to change my DSL speed.

Clearly indicated at the web-site, was a "Line Speed Change" charge of $25.
The word 'tier' doesn't appear anywhere, and there is no indication that going from 6meg service to 15meg service is anything other than a change of speed. The "Other Charges" tab of the service I want to buy lists only a line-speed change for $25.

However, the CSR tells me that going from 6 to 15meg is a change of tier and that's $50.
While I'd have no problem paying this if it were indicated clearly up front. I call this a shady bait-and-switch. There's no mention of this, and I suggested that they simply honour the line-change price and update the site to reflect the 'tier-change' pricing for the next customer....

 
It's more likely ambiguous website design.

But yes, they should modify their pages to be more clear as to which charge applies to what situation, so that we don't have to come HERE to find out that kind of stuff.

And if they HAD to honour the numbers as you suggested above, they'd get those pages changed REAL quick, and their CSRs could deal with other things than clarifying on a one-by-one basis.

EDIT : Reading along, I see that Marc is already on this.

The chart which he posted here is MUCH more clear.

Something like THAT on the pages in question - possibly as a pop-up or as a link which expands - would be great.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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START Today!
kudos:7

 
IIRC, there was another chart posted on DSLR a few days ago, possibly by TSI Andre, which was even more clear about the distinction between these charges, because he quoted current speed tier numbers in it too.

Anyone remember where that one is ?



TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:24
reply to danwforums

Hi Dan,

I agree that the verbiage on our site could be clarified a little further. Actually... So does Marc. I just spoke with him and we are going to take the initiative to make this portion a little clearer on our site. I will provide updates as they come.

This is definitely not a bait and switch, just perhaps a lack of clarification with all the changes going on.

To address the way you were treated today, while passing through the office today, I had a supervisor ask me about this exact same situation and I told that individual to do what is right. He then told me that they were going to honour it... I am thinking this was your interaction but I could be wrong.

Either way, we do value our customers, short term or long term and if what you are saying is correct, then we have some work to be done. At the end of the day, not everyone will like the answers we give them, but we should always make them feel welcome and respected. I would like to personally review this call.

Can you please PM me your account details. I want to make this right and make sure this is discussed.

Thanks,

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery

TekSavvy Website | TekSavvy Blog



TSI Andre
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join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:24
reply to Davesnothere

»Re: Upgrade from DSL 6 to DSL 7


badomen

join:2013-01-11
Toronto, ON
reply to TSI Andre

said by TSI Andre:

Hi Dan,

...I told that individual to do what is right. He then told me that they were going to honour it...

Wait, by "it", do you mean the OP's request for $25 for speed change no matter the technology?


TSI Andre
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join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
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It is referred to making a customer that is claiming to have been miss-informed, 1) informed and 2) happy.


darrylr

join:2003-02-10
Nepean, ON

Now everyone else will want the same.


danwforums

join:2013-04-02
Nepean, ON
reply to TSI Andre

Hi Andre;
PM'd you as requested.

Thanks for looking into this.



TSI Andre
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join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
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No probs. Getting someone to pull that call now


badomen

join:2013-01-11
Toronto, ON
reply to darrylr

said by darrylr:

Now everyone else will want the same.

Me included. I am also on 6mbps, looking for upgrade options, and totally wanna be $25 happier as well.


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
reply to danwforums

So, what does one get for the $25 "speed change", if not a change in speed?
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Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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4 edits
reply to TSI Andre

 
Yes, THAT's the chart - Thanks !


TSI Andre
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1 edit
reply to darrylr

This isn't an open invitation for everyone to jump on this... What I am doing is taking a bad customer experience, which by the sounds of it we dropped the ball and making things right.

Edit: And I am doing it on the forum to be transparent!



Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to Davesnothere

 
Uh-Oh !

There's a difference between some of the fee amounts in the chart which Marc OK'd on Page 1, and those in the chart which Andre linked above.

Andre's chart shows $25 for anything which changes from a higher speed to a lower speed, and Marc's (copied) chart says $50 for such changes.

Which price is correct for a speed reduction change, and do all speed reductions have the same fee ?