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jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

[DSL] Minimum upstream rate for Bell 50/10

Just got hooked up with Teksavvy 50/10 service yesterday, everything looks great except I'm only getting about 7Mbps up. I noticed this on the Bell web site:

Actual speeds will vary depending on the distance between the customer’s modem and switching equipment from Bell : min. 46 Mbps and max. 50 Mbps down speeds; Min. 9 Mbps and max.10 Mbps up speeds.
Is this "min 9 Mbps" applicable for only Bell customers?

Line stats:

GAS: xxx - In Service
Last State Change: 04/03 16:09:53 (Uptime: 2520)
Line Profile: V53952-26944_8128-2048_00011
DLM State: DISABLED | Equip. Type: OSLAM
Sync Rate: d53936.0/u8128.0 kbps
RCO: d82.0/u81.0%
Noise Margin: d11.0/u9.0 dB
Power: d14.0/u-6.0 dB
Attenuation: d27.0/u23.0 dB (Approx. Distance: 1.96~2.78km)
Block Count: d314729.0/u225024.0


Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3

Call Teksavvy and see if your line supports the full 10 meg upload.



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

Already asked on the direct forum and they said no Just wondering about the Bell "min 9 Mbps" wording.



FTTHTechie

@axxent.ca
reply to jmcneill

said by jmcneill:

Just got hooked up with Teksavvy 50/10 service yesterday, everything looks great except I'm only getting about 7Mbps up. I noticed this on the Bell web site:

Actual speeds will vary depending on the distance between the customer’s modem and switching equipment from Bell : min. 46 Mbps and max. 50 Mbps down speeds; Min. 9 Mbps and max.10 Mbps up speeds.
Is this "min 9 Mbps" applicable for only Bell customers?

Line stats:

GAS: xxx - In Service
Last State Change: 04/03 16:09:53 (Uptime: 2520)
Line Profile: V53952-26944_8128-2048_00011
DLM State: DISABLED | Equip. Type: OSLAM
Sync Rate: d53936.0/u8128.0 kbps
RCO: d82.0/u81.0%
Noise Margin: d11.0/u9.0 dB
Power: d14.0/u-6.0 dB
Attenuation: d27.0/u23.0 dB (Approx. Distance: 1.96~2.78km)
Block Count: d314729.0/u225024.0

How far away are you from the remote ?


jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

According to Google Maps, 280m by car.


bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to jmcneill

I get ~8 upload.
It should be 9 but I'd rather have 50 download than 25.
They can unqualify you for 50/10, problem solved.
You are not on a remote and you have 0 chance of being moved to one since you already get 50mbps down.

I would unplug the modem and see if it syncs higher next time.



FTTHTechie

@axxent.ca
reply to jmcneill

said by jmcneill:

According to Google Maps, 280m by car.

That shouldn't be a problem then. Perhaps the line going to the Remote isn't great and that could be causing an issue with the upload.

As others have suggested I would try rebooting the modem and see if the sync changes.

If I had that kind of download and upload speed though I would much rather have that kind of a connection than be a lower-end 25/10 connection.


Tom17

join:2008-11-26
Whitby, ON

How do you guys get accurate distances?

I guess what I really mean is how do you find out which remote you are on? Is there an official way of finding out the location of yours or is it just a case of making an educated guess based on the remotes you see in the neighbourhood and your line stats?



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1
reply to bjlockie

I would say that 8.1 Mb is rather reasonable upload rate. we'd all like to see 10Mb, but the nature of DSL means upload is the most prone to not meeting specifications.

I noticed you are on an OSLAM, which probably means you are in a multi dwelling unit such as a condo or apartment block.

I'll explain a bit about DSL. Your modem most likely negotiated the 8Mb vs 10Mb to counter something called crosstalk. your upload signal is very powerful at the modem when sent, as it travels the signal gets weaker. A side effect is that the telephone wire when near to other wires will leak some of this signal off to the other wires.

Inside high density buildings these wires are gathered quicker and in much higher density then a home on a street. and as such the signals are still very powerful with many wires grouped together.

The modem when syncing tests for noise interfering, and will block transmitting on channels that are to noisy. and will adjust the communication rate and power to provide the best quality of use.

you could ask to try and push that 8Mb to 9Mb. but I'd personally say, that 1Mb upload is not worth degrading line quality. The modem sync'd at 8Mb for a reason. and it's not an exceptionally poor sync, it is well with in a range of "I had to slow down slightly to be more stable"


t3st3r

join:2010-01-26
Toronto, ON
kudos:6
reply to jmcneill

I'm currently getting a max of 7mbps up on my 50/10 install. I'm less than 50m from the remote. This is the same whether I use the Sagemcom directly or use a double-NAT setup with another router.

Of course, I can't see the signal stats so I have no idea exactly what my profile is.



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada
reply to BTC Kevin

It's a house not MDU or condo. House is only a few years old, modem is in the basement plugged directly into POTS splitter so not relying on any additional inside wiring.



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada
reply to t3st3r

Post on the direct forums, Teksavvy can tell you the profile and line stats.



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1
reply to jmcneill

May still be to prevent cross talk etc.

I'd still say 1Mb is probably not significant enough to complain over.

I would check that the wires are all terminated well. make sure the phone cable into the modem is as short as possible. and make sure you have no high power electrical devices near to the modem or the phone line into the modem. also check that the power cord is not on a power bar as these sometimes cause electrical noise to the modem.

Check all that and power cycle and might be able to get the modem to sync slightly better.



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1

1 edit

Between 7-10Mb technically speaking is acceptably good sync rates on VDSL. Not sure how Bell is able to claim 9Mb guaranteed but suspect it comes with a nice little * clause attached to that.

I suspect TSI as a TPI only gets a commitment of "Min. 3 Mbps and max. 10 Mbps up speeds." for all 10Mb uploads from Bell. The 9Mb commitment from Bell is probably for FTTH not FTTN.



Tom17

join:2008-11-26
Whitby, ON

For my address, the smallprint says this:

For 15/10:
"Actual speeds will vary depending on the distance between the customer’s modem and switching equipment from Bell: min. 10 Mbps and max. 15 Mbps down speeds; Min. 680 Kbps and max. 10 Mbps up speeds."

For 25/10:
"Actual speeds will vary depending on the distance between the customer’s modem and switching equipment from Bell. Min. 3 Mbps and max. 10 Mbps up speeds. "

For 50/10:
"Actual speeds will vary depending on the distance between the customer’s modem and switching equipment from Bell : min. 46 Mbps and max. 50 Mbps down speeds; Min. 9 Mbps and max.10 Mbps up speeds."

I wonder how this is determined, as surely all three of those tarrifs should be on VDSL2...



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada
reply to BTC Kevin

The "min 9" is in the fine-print cause, see their product page for more info.

Power cycled the modem a few times, now I'm only getting anywhere between 3 and 5 Mbps up. Not sure what's going on.



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1

ouch ya 3mbps is kinda low



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

The worst: »speedtest.net/result/2620795842.png
The best: »speedtest.net/result/2620825773.png

If I could get 7M consistent I'd be happy (of course more would be better!)



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1

if modem is rented. ask for a new one. if bought from TSI ask if can get a replacement under warrantee. eliminate the modem as a fault.

and I'd ask to open a ticket for line trouble shooting with bell. based on the fact the sync jumps around from 1-8 mbps. 1Mb is def an issue.

if you can. I'd try disconnecting the internal telephone lines in the house. a BAD telephone even with a filter can mess up a DSL modem.

I had a Walmart cheep telephone that when plugged in completely wrecked my sync. had to replace the phone. lol



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

Unfortunately no other equipment involved, it goes: demarc outside, feeds directly into house, into POTS splitter installed by tech yesterday, with phone cable that came with rented Sagemcom from the jack marked "VDSL" on that directly into the brand new rented Sagemcom. The other two jacks on the POTS splitter are unused (in-home wiring is fed from VoIP ATA).

I'm going to keep an eye on it over the next few days and have reported the issue to Teksavvy. We'll see how it goes, thanks for your suggestions!


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

ya your at about what your going to get Your fed by a Stinger they are what they are accept it and enjoy the 50 portion P:0 is my recomendation
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to jmcneill

I don't know what this min 9 up business is all about. It's never been mentioned to me officially. Upload on VDSL has traditionally been an 'upto speed' with no minimum.

I would never abort an install if someone couldn't get their 10 meg up.

Also. I'd like to point out that the OP isn't profiled correctly. He is profiled for 8 meg sync.

I'd bet 5 pennies if his profile was changed to an 11 meg profile for that stinger, his attainables would go up for his upstream.

It's the little known fact with stinger OSLAMs. They have to be set at the higher upload speeds manually to unlock another annex that allows for higher upstream attainables.

I see it all the time on repairs for Bell customers.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1
reply to jmcneill

said by jmcneill:

Unfortunately no other equipment involved, it goes: demarc outside, feeds directly into house, into POTS splitter installed by tech yesterday, with phone cable that came with rented Sagemcom from the jack marked "VDSL" on that directly into the brand new rented Sagemcom. The other two jacks on the POTS splitter are unused (in-home wiring is fed from VoIP ATA).

I'm going to keep an eye on it over the next few days and have reported the issue to Teksavvy. We'll see how it goes, thanks for your suggestions!

Make sure the in house wires are not linked at any point into the bell line. the ATA powering then if it's cross connected into the Filter bell installed would cause an issue like this.

The tech may have accidentally terminated you internal phone wires into the bell lines. (my tech did, I had to re do his work).

Double and triple check for this,
especially if a line tech trouble ticket is made for the modem if it turns out the ATA is cross talking the bell line, Bell would for sure bill you for it.


jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada
reply to urbang33k

I had asked Teksavvy to bump it when I originally noticed the 7M limit, and their reply was "Unfortunately with these stats I would not be able to raise your profile as after calculating it seems the line can only handle about 9.4 megs of upload." Didn't sound like changing to 11M was an option.



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada
reply to BTC Kevin

Yep I checked, the blue pair from the white cat5e marked "0" goes into the POTS splitter, and the VDSL port goes out directly to the modem with the cable that came with it. Nothing else hooked up.



BTC Kevin

join:2011-10-01
Nepean, ON
kudos:1

hmm wonder if the modem + firmware version he is using isn't playing nice with the Stinger?



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

Sagemcom, upgraded itself when it first connected, now shows:

Firmware Version: FAST2864_v6740S
Rescue Version: FAST2864_v7740S
Hardware Version: 2864-000000-002


urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to jmcneill

This is what I'm getting at though. A stinger OSLAM 'lies' to you when its reporting attainables.

I can have a customer profiled for 8 meg upload. his attainable may be reported as 10 meg.

If i take same customer and reprofile him for 11 meg, his attainable will jump to 13 or more.

Something about increasing the profile on a stinger increases his attainables and I'm assuming it's unlocking higher annex's.

It's like going from 7 meg adsl profile on a stinger with it reporting 10 meg max attainable. then setting it to 14 meg adsl2+ and the same port will report a 21 meg attainable.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.



jmcneill

join:2010-04-06
Canada

Is this a change that Teksavvy will normally try to push through, or is it going to take some convincing/harassing?


bjlockie

join:2007-12-16
Ottawa, DSL
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit

said by jmcneill:

Is this a change that Teksavvy will normally try to push through, or is it going to take some convincing/harassing?

It'll take convincing/harassing since your download is fine.
Worth a try though.

Maybe they put you on a lower profile since you on an OSLAM.
I barely get 9 on speedtests even though it says I synced at 11.
Line Profile: V53952-26944_11328-2048_00011
DLM State: DISABLED | Equip. Type: 7330_REM
Sync Rate: d53923.0/u11328.0 kbps
RCO: d98.0/u39.0%