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35245635 (banned)
join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA

35245635 (banned) to Coma

Member

to Coma

Re: Locksmith demolished lock

said by Coma:

said by 35245635:

I have a few of those locks and I'd love to read about this 'scandal'.


I too have a few of those locks on different houses and now I learn about a "scandal" with them.



I can't find anything with a 'scandal' just that they take 10-15 seconds to break into vs. 40-60 seconds with other locks. Anyone who wants in can do so in under 60 seconds with any lock. I don't see any real reason to stop using Smartkey locks.

StillLearn
Premium Member
join:2002-03-21
Streamwood, IL

1 recommendation

StillLearn

Premium Member

said by 35245635:

I can't find anything with a 'scandal' just that they take 10-15 seconds to break into vs. 40-60 seconds with other locks.

I can't take issue with that.
said by 35245635:

Anyone who wants in can do so in under 60 seconds with any lock.

I take issue with that. I expect very few going to pick a modern Medico in 60 seconds. I doubt that most lock pickers could pick a modern bump-resistant ANSI 1 Schlage in 60 seconds.

Of course if you are referring to breaking down the door, that is different. But to gain entrance through a lock quietly is is the issue as I see it -- especially if you can't necessarily tell by looking that the lock had been breached.

ANSI should down-certify the locks so that people are not misled. Kwikset should release cylinders with stronger materials for retrofit.

Incidentally, you and I are part of the "anyone" class.
said by 35245635:

I don't see any real reason to stop using Smartkey locks.

I can't take issue with that.

CylonRed
MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

1 recommendation

CylonRed to 35245635

MVM

to 35245635
»Your home deadbolt/locks are totally ineffective.

dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium Member
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ

dennismurphy to StillLearn

Premium Member

to StillLearn
said by StillLearn:

said by 35245635:

I can't find anything with a 'scandal' just that they take 10-15 seconds to break into vs. 40-60 seconds with other locks.

I can't take issue with that.
said by 35245635:

Anyone who wants in can do so in under 60 seconds with any lock.

I take issue with that. I expect very few going to pick a modern Medico in 60 seconds. I doubt that most lock pickers could pick a modern bump-resistant ANSI 1 Schlage in 60 seconds.

Of course if you are referring to breaking down the door, that is different. But to gain entrance through a lock quietly is is the issue as I see it -- especially if you can't necessarily tell by looking that the lock had been breached.

ANSI should down-certify the locks so that people are not misled. Kwikset should release cylinders with stronger materials for retrofit.

Incidentally, you and I are part of the "anyone" class.
said by 35245635:

I don't see any real reason to stop using Smartkey locks.

I can't take issue with that.

Since you've obviously got some experience with locks .... your thoughts on Mul-T-Lock cylinders?
35245635 (banned)
join:2013-03-04
North Reading, MA

4 edits

35245635 (banned)

Member

said by dennismurphy:

Since you've obviously got some experience with locks .... your thoughts on Mul-T-Lock cylinders?

They have tools for those as well. As I said anything can be picked it's just a matter of time and skill. The door jam is the weakest point of a door as well so even if you had a 100% pick proof door they'd just kick it in.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· 1Zo3uXAw

»www.metacafe.com/watch/8 ··· n_1_min/

Edit: Here's one where you just tap a Mul-T-Lock key that doesn't work while in the lock until it opens. You can defeat it in around 60 seconds.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· MzF60EE&

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· ryPPFCLM


Make note how there are ways to 'pick' a lock and ways to 'defeat' a lock. Almost any lock can be 'defeated' in around a minute. The video's show about 2 minutes to 'pick' and around 70 seconds in one video and 20 seconds in the other to 'defeat' a Mul-T-Lock. A professional looking to get into your place would be doing it much faster. They don't care about going slow to show people how it's done in a video.

Given the 2 methods above which do you think a professional would do?

workablob
join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX

workablob to 35245635

Member

to 35245635
said by 35245635:

said by Coma:

said by 35245635:

I have a few of those locks and I'd love to read about this 'scandal'.


I too have a few of those locks on different houses and now I learn about a "scandal" with them.



I can't find anything with a 'scandal' just that they take 10-15 seconds to break into vs. 40-60 seconds with other locks. Anyone who wants in can do so in under 60 seconds with any lock. I don't see any real reason to stop using Smartkey locks.

Agreed. Thieves around these parts aren't lock picks. It is much easier to verify no one is home and then break a window or knock the back door in.

Dave

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to 35245635

Premium Member

to 35245635
said by 35245635:

said by dennismurphy:

Since you've obviously got some experience with locks .... your thoughts on Mul-T-Lock cylinders?

They have tools for those as well. As I said anything can be picked it's just a matter of time and skill. The door jam is the weakest point of a door as well so even if you had a 100% pick proof door they'd just kick it in.

(youtube clip)
Here's one where you just tap a Mul-T-Lock key that doesn't work while in the lock until it opens. You can defeat it in around 60 seconds.

(youtube clip)
note how there are ways to 'pick' a lock and ways to 'defeat' a lock. Almost any lock can be 'defeated' in around a minute. The video's show about 2 minutes to 'pick' and around 70 seconds in one video and 20 seconds in the other to 'defeat' a Mul-T-Lock. A professional looking to get into your place would be doing it much faster. They don't care about going slow to show people how it's done in a video.

Given the 2 methods above which do you think a professional would do?

I want to see someone try to pick a magnetic lock.
Critsmcgee
join:2011-12-02

Critsmcgee

Member

said by sk1939:

I want to see someone try to pick a magnetic lock.

Use size 10-12 boot once or twice. End of story!

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan

Premium Member

Properly installed and engaged, you're breaking the door, not separating the mag lock...

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939 to Critsmcgee

Premium Member

to Critsmcgee
said by Critsmcgee:

said by sk1939:

I want to see someone try to pick a magnetic lock.

Use size 10-12 boot once or twice. End of story!

Also only works with wood doors, not steel.

Beezel
join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV

Beezel

Member

said by sk1939:

said by Critsmcgee:

said by sk1939:

I want to see someone try to pick a magnetic lock.

Use size 10-12 boot once or twice. End of story!

Also only works with wood doors, not steel.

Residential steel doors can be kicked in also. The steel skin is thin, (done it a few times, the steel will bend eventually) but it takes more kicks and allot of a$$ behind the kick. Commercial steel doors are another story.
Hellrazor
Bah Humbug
join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA

Hellrazor to LazMan

Member

to LazMan
said by LazMan:

Properly installed and engaged, you're breaking the door, not separating the mag lock...

Depending on how the mag lock is installed you can pull them open. Commercial installs on aluminum or thin wall steel frames are not all that secure. If you pull hard and fast the frames with slightly twist and it will disengage the mag lock.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan

Premium Member

Then it's not properly installed...

Raphion
join:2000-10-14
Samsara

Raphion to Hellrazor

Member

to Hellrazor
said by Hellrazor:

said by LazMan:

Properly installed and engaged, you're breaking the door, not separating the mag lock...

Depending on how the mag lock is installed you can pull them open. Commercial installs on aluminum or thin wall steel frames are not all that secure. If you pull hard and fast the frames with slightly twist and it will disengage the mag lock.

I believe that there should be a floating plate that the mag lock holds to, the float prevents it from disengaging if the door or frame flexes.

That said, any mag lock can be forced, if you have enough force to overcome it, although a commercial mag lock could be 1200+ pounds.
54067323 (banned)
join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

54067323 (banned) to LazMan

Member

to LazMan
said by LazMan:

Then it's not properly installed...

Quite true, if a Magnalock aka maglock, is installed properly the strike plate to be secured to the door but is floated from it, this “float” allows the strike plate to fully engage the Magnalock requiring on the lowest version a 600 pound pull to separate the strike plate from the Magnalock.

Now the strike plate can be sheared from the Magnalock, but by then the door and or frame is pooched.

sk1939
Premium Member
join:2010-10-23
Frederick, MD
ARRIS SB8200
Ubiquiti UDM-Pro
Juniper SRX320

sk1939

Premium Member

said by 54067323:

said by LazMan:

Then it's not properly installed...

Quite true, if a Magnalock aka maglock, is installed properly the strike plate to be secured to the door but is floated from it, this “float” allows the strike plate to fully engage the Magnalock requiring on the lowest version a 600 pound pull to separate the strike plate from the Magnalock.

At which point it's probably easier to just go through a wall.