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hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON

[DSL] DSL: Daily problems with 25/10 package

Hello,

I've been a customer for about a month now.

For the last week and a half - I've had a problem almost daily where I lose connectivity. (three times yesterday).

Modem still shows sync.

I'm able to ping hosts on the Internet, traceroute works.

I'm even able to make a telnet connection (telnetting to an ssh server port or even port 80 somewhere).

DNS lookups work.

But browsing and other things don't seem to work.

The symptoms seem to be described by others as the 'sync not surf issue'.

See: »[DSL] New 50/10 signup, modem craps out daily

Is there any fix for this? I'm on a SAGEMCOM modem.

I've tried running both with a router (making a Passthrough PPPOE connection) as well as a computer direct into the SAGEMCOM modem and I've had the problem happen both ways. (So it's not a router or computer specific issue on my part.)

The problem seems to occur when I have a lot of connections open (I was synchronizing a bitcoin client - and it made connections with a number of peers to update the bitcoin chain (a la bittorrent)).

Problem disappears within 5-10 minutes on its own usually. I've had to restart the modem a couple of times.

Any fix for this?

PHT



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

This is a known problem for months with the Sagemcom...

Even acknowledged by Bell customers in Bell forum... So far no firmware fix...

Apparently a somewhat half-assed "fix" is to set the line profile to a FibeTV profile which increases latency. Not sure if TekSavvy is able to request that from Bell.
--


Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal
kudos:3
reply to hopetindall

when I had this issue, the only fix was to get an interleave profile from bell that was known to work for this specific issue.



hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

This is a known problem for months with the Sagemcom...

Even acknowledged by Bell customers in Bell forum... So far no firmware fix...

Apparently a somewhat half-assed "fix" is to set the line profile to a FibeTV profile which increases latency. Not sure if TekSavvy is able to request that from Bell.

Hi HiVolt, what sort of increase in latency does the "fix" create?

phtimac:~ peter$ ping teksavvy.com
PING teksavvy.com (206.248.155.70): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=0 ttl=123 time=14.336 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=1 ttl=123 time=13.973 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=2 ttl=123 time=14.022 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=3 ttl=123 time=14.001 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=4 ttl=123 time=13.602 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=5 ttl=123 time=13.664 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=6 ttl=123 time=14.242 ms


jmck
formerly 'shaded'

join:2010-10-02
Ottawa, ON

someone mentioned it would be a ~30ms increase.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to hopetindall

I believe the normal VDSL first hop ping is about 5ms, and you'll see about 25ms extra on top of that I think...
--



hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON

thanks - I'd rather not have more latency - but it's more important to me to have a reliable connection.

thanks



hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to hopetindall

update - I've spoken with support in the direct forum.

They are going to change the profile/apply a "fix" for me.

They warned me in advance the latency will increase. (Hopefully not too bad for my VOIP/asterisk box).

I appreciate the speedy, helpful and forthright assistance from HiVolt, shaded and Cloneman in this thread - as well as the Teksavvy support person in the direct forum.

Cheers,

PHT


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by hopetindall:

They warned me in advance the latency will increase. (Hopefully not too bad for my VOIP/asterisk box).

A steady 30ms latency increase would be hardly perceivable on VoIP.

What can quickly make VoIP miserable is wildly fluctuating (jittery) latency that will cause audio buffer underflows/overflows which translate into very audible and distracting discontinuities.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to hopetindall

When you get the profile changed, let us know if it fixes the issue...

Who knows if the fix works for everyone.
--



hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

A steady 30ms latency increase would be hardly perceivable on VoIP.

What can quickly make VoIP miserable is wildly fluctuating (jittery) latency that will cause audio buffer underflows/overflows which translate into very audible and distracting discontinuities.

Agreed - that's my experience too.


hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to hopetindall

Looks like they may have made the change.

My connection went down and came back up with new IP address and higher latency.

Old latency:

PING teksavvy.com (206.248.155.70): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=0 ttl=123 time=14.004 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=1 ttl=123 time=13.781 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=2 ttl=123 time=13.879 ms

Some VOIP Stats:
VOIP 204.74.213.5 N 5060 OK (84 ms)
VOIP 192.94.73.120 N 5060 OK (69 ms)
VOIP 74.51.40.188 N 5060 OK (8 ms)

New latency:

PING teksavvy.com (206.248.155.70): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=0 ttl=123 time=24.725 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=1 ttl=123 time=24.981 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=2 ttl=123 time=24.782 ms
64 bytes from 206.248.155.70: icmp_seq=3 ttl=123 time=24.509 ms

Some VOIP Stats:
VOIP 204.74.213.5 N 5060 OK (99 ms)
VOIP 192.94.73.120 N 5060 OK (82 ms)
VOIP 74.51.40.188 N 5060 OK (19 ms)

I'm not detecting any measurable jitter from my sip and iax2 stats in asterisk.

speedtest.net Test Result latency has gone from 7 ms to 18 ms.

PHT


morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

Simpoly put your now on a Interleaved profile instead of fastpath
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.



hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON

said by morisato:

Simpoly put your now on a Interleaved profile instead of fastpath

Hello,

can you explain what that means?

What technically is the difference?

thanks,

PHT


hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to hopetindall

Sorry - I shouldn't have been so lazy - and I should have Google'd it before replying.

I see (links from the faq and other places) - interleaving has more error correction and is used in cases where there is high noise on the line and/or marginal sync.

If this fix works - does that mean that I was having line problems - or is this simply coincidence and the real issue (as stated by others) a bug in the modem firmware?

The TekSavvy tech said it was a 'known issue' - but that is ambiguous.

Cheers,

PHT



SimplePanda
Go Habs Go
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to morisato

said by morisato:

Simpoly put your now on a Interleaved profile instead of fastpath

VDSL2 doesn't do fastpath vs. interleave.

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON

Okay, well fibetv/ interleaved profiles have about 6-8ms of extra time put on them and panda Webcare would beg to differ..
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


themisa

join:2012-05-22
reply to hopetindall

has the issue been fixed for you?


urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to SimplePanda

said by SimplePanda:

said by morisato:

Simpoly put your now on a Interleaved profile instead of fastpath

VDSL2 doesn't do fastpath vs. interleave.

Ya that's not true. VDSL2 has fast path profiles. IPTV profiles don't
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.


xsbell

join:2008-12-22
Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Primus Telecommu..
reply to SimplePanda

said by SimplePanda:

said by morisato:

Simpoly put your now on a Interleaved profile instead of fastpath

VDSL2 doesn't do fastpath vs. interleave.

VDSL2 supports an INP of 0 to 16 and an interleaving delay of 0 to 63ms.

Usually INP ranges from INP=1 to INP=2 with a delay=8ms.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to urbang33k

said by urbang33k:

Ya that's not true. VDSL2 has fast path profiles. IPTV profiles don't

"Fast path" is nothing more than a special case interleave profile with the distance between a given frame and its FEC payload set to zero. The FEC gets tacked to the frame it covers instead of an unrelated frame further down the line.

Packing the FEC with its data does have the disadvantage of considerably weakening protection against short noise bursts. Since this seems to be a systemic problem with the Sagem, perhaps the Sagem has its own design flaw that causes it to generate its own noise bursts that are bad enough to require more robust FEC placement. Alternately, perhaps their FEC algorithm just does not like working with an FEC distance of 0.


hopetindall
Premium
join:2011-11-12
Mississauga, ON
reply to themisa

said by themisa:

has the issue been fixed for you?

Haven't had the problem occur again (but then again - I didn't have any problems for the first 3 weeks either). Hopefully things continue to be stable.

PHT