| reply to dave
Re: What are the substantive reasons to upgrade to Windows 8? said by dave:Windows cannot provide something the firmware does not support, and conformant firmware is prohibited from supporting it.
If there's been a change in spec, please post it.
The requirement for secure boot on x86 is that it can be disabled by firmware.
Here's something to get you started off
»support.microsoft.com/kb/2800988
You can google the rest yourself, I'm not going to do it for you. |
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davePremium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:7 | said by sigh :The requirement for secure boot on x86 is that it can be disabled by firmware. Yes, of course. This does not mean it can be disabled by the operating system. Furthermore, my understanding of the specification is that it must not be possible for it to be disabled by the operating system. Because that provides a gaping security hole which is obvious to everyone.
You can google the rest yourself, I'm not going to do it for you. |
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 NOYBSt. John 3.16Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1 | reply to sigh
said by sigh :said by NOYB:Please back up your claims.
prevented from doing so unless the loader is specially signed That is pretty much the point and why it is a good thing. You wouldn't do online banking at an unsigned site would you? Well if a root kit gets on a persons system that's pretty much the equivalent of what they would be doing.
Security and convenience are perpetually at odds. Until there is an incident. Then the convenience turns out not to be worth it. I'll take the SecureBoot one please. Thank you very much.
People rail against MS and other large corps about lack of security then rail on them for improving it. And by the way SecureBoot isn't specific to just Microsoft Windows 8. According to some it wasn't even the first.
You have your opinion and apparently dislike and don't what it. I have my opinion and I'll take the one with SecureBoot.
It is a substantive reason for many individuals, small businesses, as well as corporate enterprises to upgrade to Windows 8.
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| reply to NOYB
Reset/Refresh
Windows To Go
RDS
Hyper-V |
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| reply to NOYB
said by NOYB:
It is a substantive reason for many individuals, small businesses, as well as corporate enterprises to upgrade to Windows 8.
And it's offset and then some by the loss in productivity and the training costs incurred during the transition. 8 will have lower enterprise penetration than Vista did. That's not really commentary on whether Windows 8 is good (it's not) or bad (it is), it's just that it would be an extremely tough sell, at least for those looking to upgrade from Windows 7.
Even in my current IT admin situation, I have a metric ton of Windows XP machines that need to be upgraded before next April. I'll bet you can guess how many are going to get windows 8. |
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NOYBSt. John 3.16Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1 | LOL Loss in productivity. Transition Training cost. One security incident can obliterate that.
All of them if your superior(s) say so. And if they don't say so then in my opinion they are not very business savvy. Going to expend all that effort and resources just for something with less security and shorter future from the get go.
Hey lets upgrade from this Studebaker and get a Rambler. Porsche are just too difficult to learn to drive.
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| reply to dave
dave, you stated that it was not supported by the firmware but could have checked this yourself before posting. I offered some information, whether people choose to believe it or not is their prerogative and that is fine by me however I would hope people would at least dig a little before countering that it is false information. Sorry for "the snottiness" it's just my frustration in general that this quite often does not happen.
As far as disabling secure boot from the OS I have already tried and succeeded in doing that. Boot into W8, run powershell and confirm-securebootuefi is true, run a small program to disable secure boot, re-start W8 and confirm-securebootuefi returns false. Don't expect me to go into details though. Specifications are one thing but I prefer to go by real world results.
I don't have a love/hate relationship with computers and software, W8 included. Just trying to provide some info so people can hopefully be better informed but maybe that's not really in line with the OT so apologies for that. |
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 Link LoggerPremium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3 | reply to NOYB
My main reason to upgrade to Windows 8, because I developing apps for Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 (and older versions of Windows as well).
Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool |
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 natedjElectedPremium
join:2001-06-06
Columbia, SC
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Earthlink Cable ..
| reply to NOYB
I saw this over on Slickdeals.net several weeks ago, so take it for what its worth.
Reasons to upgrade to Windows 8
Client Hyper-V (So ability to run VMs built right in)
Much better battery life (by about 30%)
File History (similar to Apples time machine)
AppContainers sandboxed apps.
Slimline memory usage.
ForceASLR and High Entropy ASLR (HEASLR) ..security (Takes advantage of Ivy Bridge' RNG)
"Supervisor Mode Execution Prevention" (SMEP) support
Eliminates access to win32k.sys (Eliminates many security flaws/exploits)
Tickless kernel..lets processor sleep
Reset and refresh your PC (instead of total re-install)
ISO & VHD native mount (Supports Native boot VHD ... boot into OS from a VHD file works great creates a 40 GB harddrive by default for 8 rest is old system D:...dual-boot)
Native PDF reader
Enhanced Task Manager..see at a glance exactly which app is causing your hard drive to grind to a halt,
Windows Defender (True AV...basically now MSE)
Trusted boot (More secure)
Windows Store (Free apps)
SmartScreen (More secure than 7's version)
Storage Spaces (New Drive Extender replacement from WHS could make a good Home Server)
New ribbon for File management (can pause restart file transfers and has graph)
OS itself consumes less RAM and CPU cycles than Windows 7
Windows 8 is that it boots a lot faster than Windows 7
Many hackers have already gone on the record to say that Windows 8 is (and will be) very hard to break into.
Already optimized for SSD (»forums.mydigitallife.info/...n?p=621681)
Screenshots... Windows Key+Printscreen automatically save a PNG to Pictures
Support for ReFS the new file system, newer better than NTFS
System Wide Search.
Better File Management.
Better Device Management
Better Dual Monitor support.
Better Memory management
Registry is more compact and faster
Boot time: 9 sec cold > 5 seconds warm. Amazing
Seamless Cloud Integration (SkyDrive is pretty awesome).
USB 3.0 support.
Full touch support (This OS is killer with touch displays)
New picture login
Built- in Enhanced version of Narrator...MUCH IMPROVED for those with disabilities... fun for rest of us
..and many more little improvements... its fast!
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Mele20Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4 | It's NOT fast ....until you get rid of all the unnecessary services and crap that runs when you get a new Win 8 machine. Since OEMs, even Dell, are very difficult now to get DVD/USB pure reinstallation disks/sticks most folks will have to take the time to disable/uninstall all the shit. It also eats a ton of RAM until you get rid of all the garbage that is installed at the factory (mostly services that should be disabled and a lot of Intel crap that needs to be uninstalled). Refresh/reset your PC is junk as it would be insane to reset to factory default and then you have to clean up all the crap all over again.
Boot time to a usable Desktop is NOT 9 seconds. And the crap semi- hibernation junk should be turned off if you have an SSD.
The native PDF reader is a joke. Most, if not all, of the Metro apps are pure junk, run full screen to drive you nuts, and they require you keep UAC enabled. (UAC is more intrusive on Win 8 even when running as Admin).
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| reply to natedj
said by natedj:I saw this over on Slickdeals.net several weeks ago, so take it for what its worth.
Reasons to upgrade to Windows 8
Client Hyper-V (So ability to run VMs built right in) This sounds cool, sure, but I haven't been able to test it yet because turning it on renders my W8 system inoperable (boot loop). It's a new LGA 2011 system, too.
Much better battery life (by about 30%) Proof?
File History (similar to Apples time machine) Shadow copies.
AppContainers sandboxed apps. Does this work on actual programs and not just apps?
Slimline memory usage. Not as slim as XP... 
ForceASLR and High Entropy ASLR (HEASLR) ..security (Takes advantage of Ivy Bridge' RNG) Alrighty then.
"Supervisor Mode Execution Prevention" (SMEP) support Alrighty then....
Eliminates access to win32k.sys (Eliminates many security flaws/exploits) Famous last words. Wasn't x64 Windows supposed to be immune to rootkits?
Tickless kernel..lets processor sleep Is there any proof that this has real value?
Reset and refresh your PC (instead of total re-install) This is an intriguing feature, I admit. Haven't gotten a chance to check it out yet.
ISO & VHD native mount (Supports Native boot VHD ... boot into OS from a VHD file works great creates a 40 GB harddrive by default for 8 rest is old system D:...dual-boot) Nice enough, but kind of offset by the apparent mess that's created when you try to dual boot with 7 on a W8 system that has had secureboot enabled.
Native PDF reader This would be cool if it weren't a full-screen app. Even better if it were capable of editing.
Enhanced Task Manager..see at a glance exactly which app is causing your hard drive to grind to a halt, 7 and Vista both have Resource Monitor, which does the same basic thing. 8's is more polished, as expected.
Windows Defender (True AV...basically now MSE) I like MSE, but word on the street is that MSE sucks.
Trusted boot (More secure) Until it gets cracked, and even after it does it will cause problems with dual booting.
Windows Store (Free apps) Because there's no free programs/apps/widgets for previous versions of Windows....
SmartScreen (More secure than 7's version) Not sure if that's true or not, but I have made a habit of turning it off on Windows 7 systems.
Storage Spaces (New Drive Extender replacement from WHS could make a good Home Server) Storage Spaces on Server 2012 is interesting, so maybe the client version is too.
New ribbon for File management (can pause restart file transfers and has graph) I hadn't noticed this, but I'll take your word for it.
OS itself consumes less RAM and CPU cycles than Windows 7 True, but not dramatically. I'm sure the loss of aero effects helps a lot.
Windows 8 is that it boots a lot faster than Windows 7 Yes that is true
Many hackers have already gone on the record to say that Windows 8 is (and will be) very hard to break into.I'm sorry, but that is legitimately humorous.
Already optimized for SSD (»forums.mydigitallife.info/...n?p=621681) Without going to the thread, Windows 7 made the same claim.
Screenshots... Windows Key+Printscreen automatically save a PNG to PicturesThat is cool, actually.
Support for ReFS the new file system, newer better than NTFS You're not going to call this a good feature when MS drops support for NTFS.
System Wide Search. That is not a new feature.
Better File Management. You're going to have to quantify "better." This functionality is one of the comparatively few areas that is blissfully similar to Windows of old.
Better Device Management Same as a above.
Better Dual Monitor support. Author of this list was grasping for straws right about here.
Better Memory management Good lord, really? Even if that's true, how is that a feature? What does it do differently to benefit the user?
Registry is more compact and faster Can this be quantified? I've never known a registry to be "slow."
Boot time: 9 sec cold > 5 seconds warm. Amazing Sounds like a Windows 7 system with an SSD to me, for the warm bootup anyway.
Seamless Cloud Integration (SkyDrive is pretty awesome). Google Drive works pretty well.
USB 3.0 support. Ah yes, because windows 7 totally doesn't support USB 3, right?
Full touch support (This OS is killer with touch displays) No doubt, and it's also horrific on a keyboard and mouse system. That is the entire problem right there.
New picture login oooohhhh
Built- in Enhanced version of Narrator...MUCH IMPROVED for those with disabilities... fun for rest of us I am a fully functional android, so I don't need to test that feature.
..and many more little improvements... its fast! You know what they say, always close with your strongest line!
w/e |
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| reply to NOYB
I can't believe no one has brought up the touch interface.
If you have a tablet or Jukebox, or kiosk this is big.
I upgraded and find it is better then Win 7 i had before on the same PC.
I deleted everything from the Metro screen and put an icon in groups for every desktop app installed, it is better then a start button. |
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NOYBSt. John 3.16Premium
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to sigh
Did you succeed at loading unsigned code during boot?
Have you had this peer reviewed?
If so by who?
Have you reported this to Microsoft as a security flaw?
If not why?
If so what was response and was it confirmed?
According to an article I read, think it was on MSDN, in certain conditions confirm-securebootuefi and msinfo32 can give incorrect status.
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