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Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

SSD install

I just ordered an SSD( »www.tigerdirect.com/applications···261-2114 ) and as this is my first SSD build I'd like to know a few things.
First ,what I have now are 2- 75gig WD VelociRaptors and a 500 gig WD hardrive.
I have the OS installed on one 75gig VelociRaptor and its pretty much clean.I just installed it a few weeks ago and have a few games on it and would like to transfer it to the SSD.The SSD is 240 gigs.
Do I have to format the SSD if I go this route.I'm not really famliar with SSD's.
Any tips about SSD's Do's and Don'ts?



rusdi
American V
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-28
Flippin, AR
kudos:2

1). Set BIOS to AHCI.

2). Be sure to use a SATAIII, (6GB) SATA connector on the MoBo.

3). I would suggest a new, (clean) install of W-7, and let Windows do the alignment work.

4). Disable Disk Defragment schedual, and NEVER defragment!
Also disable Indexing. (Windows should "see" this as a non-spinning drive, and do these settings automagically, but it doesn't hurt to check.)

5). Enjoy your new speedy drive! Use it, as you would any Hard Drive. Good luck!



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
reply to Fishead1

rusdi See Profile pretty much summed it up, but knowing what exact version of the OS you plan on installing is what matters most here.

A few days ago I just posted about SSDs on Windows OSes, particularly the nonsense that a lot of tech sites tell you to do:

»[WIN8] SSDs - using Intel Toolbox or W8's drive Optimizer?
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Thanks for the tips and Info guys.I check it out.



berserken

join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Fishead1

gparted can copy partitions between devices. I've used this for Linux and Windows XP transfers to my ssd w/o observed problem. It might be a fun, potentially time-saving exercise as a first try with full install/updates a fallback strategy.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

said by berserken:

gparted can copy partitions between devices. I've used this for Linux and Windows XP transfers to my ssd w/o observed problem. It might be a fun, potentially time-saving exercise as a first try with full install/updates a fallback strategy.

Be careful about recommending "partition copy" utilities when it comes to SSDs. Many of them will copy the entire partition itself (regardless of how much of it is used, e.g. a 100GB partition which only has 10GB used will result in copying the entire 100GB), which can have detrimental effects on an SSD (the FTL map becomes longer and longer filled with LBAs which have been written to and therefore internally within the SSD are considered used).

A utility like Intel's Toolbox Optimiser or Samsung's Magician can help alleviate the effects of this, however, the "damage" has already been done by that point (excessive erase-writes to the SSD copying nothing but zeros or unreferenced/unused data). TL;DR -- why copy more than needed?

Unless you know for an absolute 100% fact that the utility/program you're using doesn't copy unused space, you should rely on a file-based copy mechanism instead.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


berserken

join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Quite right. Although I'm an intermediate user, the gparted documentation is extensive and my successful partition copies with gparted included making sure the target media contains sufficient space to hold the source partition, resizing that, first, if necessary. Surely, an operation at this level requires some study, perhaps with reversible practice. There's a section about partition copy here.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Fishead1

Ok I'm new to SSD's but if you do a a fresh install it will ask you if you want to format and what type.Do SSD's have to be formatted or do they come ready to go out of the box.(You guys can stop laughing in the background there. ).



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

You still haven't disclosed what OS version you're using. It matters (specifically with regards to partitioning)

Short version: you need to partition and format the SSD, just like you would a normal MHDD (mechanical hard disk). However, with SSDs, you should always pick Quick Format.

I've covered this here:

»Re: [WIN8] SSDs - using Intel Toolbox or W8's drive Optimizer?
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Windows XP 64 bit koitsu.Sorry about that.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

said by Fishead1:

Windows XP 64 bit koitsu.Sorry about that.

Err... really? You're truly running Windows XP 64-bit? Not Windows 7 or Windows 8 64-bit? Please verify.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Yes Windows XP 64 bit.I don't have any problems with it.I'd upgrade to Windows 7 but i can't afford it right now.I'll never get Windows 8.
Its more a tablet OS and to drastic a change from older Windows OS's.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

1 recommendation

You're the only person I know to run Windows XP 64-bit; given the application compatibility issues, consider me surprised. Yowzers.

You're going to need to pre-partition the SSD to ensure proper alignment. This is the trickiest/most annoying task that you have to do with XP. You also have to remember that if you ever reinstall the OS, you ***should not*** delete the partition (because you'll lose the alignment), but you can format it (quick format) with no issues.

The easiest way on XP to do alignment is to either boot into a WinPE image and use DISKPART.EXE to create the partition with an ALIGN=1024 or ALIGN=2048 parameter (XP's DISKPART.EXE does not have this capability, and the binary from Vista/7/etc. will not run on XP), or to use an older utility from Microsoft called DISKPAR.EXE (note the lacking "T").

The DISKPAR.EXE method is described here:

»www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum···n-Vertex

You'll need to do this **before** doing the OS installation. It is not possible to do this from within the XP installation environment.

I strongly recommend for the "sector offset" you enter a value of 2048. This will mimic the alignment that Vista/7/8 uses natively -- a 1,048,576 byte (1MByte) offset, which is also evenly divisible by 4096, hence properly aligned.

You cannot reliably do a "copy" from the old disk (75GB Velociraptor) to the SSD, because the partition alignment/details will come with it. Partition re-alignment after creating the partition is a pain in the ass, and there are only a few tools that can do this correctly (there are many which can do it, but very few which do it right).

So to summarise, I suggest you backup all of your data on your existing system, pre-partition the SSD (hook the SSD up to your existing XP system, pre-partition it like described, and format it as described), shut down the system, disconnect your WD drive, plug the SSD SATA cable into port 0, boot your XP 64-bit installation CD, and install fresh. You will be asked at some point if you want to "use the existing partition" and you SHOULD -- DO NOT DELETE IT, AS YOU WILL LOSE THE ALIGNMENT -- and when prompted later in the install to format the filesystem, choose NTFS (Quick) (DO NOT choose "full"). After that things should go smoothly; we can talk about what other things to adjust in XP later if needed. It'll be your responsibility to restore your system/applications (reinstall, etc.) after.

Oh, one other thing: you will also need to have a floppy disk available to install AHCI drivers for your motherboard (unless you have an XP installation disc that has your AHCI drivers slipstreamed onto them). You cannot use a USB stick for this, nor a USB floppy drive. I recommend you make your own XP CD with the AHCI drivers slipstreamed (I use nLite for this process, it's very easy, especially if you have an Intel chipset board).

The instructions for how to do all of this are way too involved for me to explain, and it's a lot easier to just SHOW someone how to do it than to explain it.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

There are plenty of Windows XP users out here.Like I said I'd get Windows 7 if I had the money.But are you telling me even Windows 7 Is a pain to install a SSD on?
At one time while I was working(I'm disabled now)I would always be getting the latest OS because it had something that was needed.
Now I'm lucky if I can pay my bills(rent,gas & Electric).I did have a good $ 70,000 in the bank 6 yrs ago but my health problems(Hepatitis C,am on Dialysis) wiped all that out all that and I'm now on Medicare/Medicaid.
Wouldn't the maker of the SSD have instructions on how to install on an older OS?
What your describing seems pretty involved and I'm not disputing that.I appreciate your help.
Would getting a copy of Windows 7 be better?And if I have WINXP PRO 64 edition can I just buy a Windows 7 upgrade which is a bit cheaper.I have to see if I can scratch up the money.


HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

1 recommendation

said by Fishead1:

There are plenty of Windows XP users out here.

Yes, but what there are not many of is 64-bit XP users. I think that is the point that koitsu was making. It just wasn't a very good OS and there were many apps that just didn't work right with it.


Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Can't say that I ever had any problems running any program that I can remember .Most of my use of my PC is gaming and surfing the web for info but gaming is the biggest part of my use.
I haven't really encountered any major problem with WinXP Pro and it has been rock steady and stable for the many years I've used it.
Vista is a different thing altogether.I've heard all the horror stories about it thru the years.I've heard very good reviews of WIN 7 and would buy it if I could afford it.But WinXP pro has never let me down so why change?



rusdi
American V
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-28
Flippin, AR
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Fishead1

said by Fishead1:

There are plenty of Windows XP users out here.Like I said I'd get Windows 7 if I had the money.But are you telling me even Windows 7 Is a pain to install a SSD on?

To the contrary.
koitsu See Profile was explaining, XP will not align your SSD. It will need to be done by you, where W7 WILL align the SSD during install. Just to add, W7 also has native TRIM support, where, (i don't think) XP does.

I would suggest as soon as you can afford it, buy a copy of Windows-7, (64 bit). It plays much nicer with SSDs than any flavor of XP.


Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

My question is can I buy an upgrade of Windows 7 and not a full version.Can I upgrade from WinXP 64bit? and if I had to reinstall I would have to install WinXP 64bit and then install the Windows 7
Upgrade right?



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to HarryH3

said by HarryH3:

said by Fishead1:

There are plenty of Windows XP users out here.

Yes, but what there are not many of is 64-bit XP users. I think that is the point that koitsu was making. It just wasn't a very good OS and there were many apps that just didn't work right with it.

I ran XP 64 bit until I upgraded to Win7. It worked.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


berserken

join:2011-03-27
Oakland, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to koitsu




This is a screenie of where my working XP (32-bit) was copied from a Seagate hd by gparted to SSD partitioned to ntfs by gparted. I don't know that this gives enough information but I always see gparted leave about 1M empty at the beginning of the drive when I create a new partition there. Does this constitute proper alignment?


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

Please do not use GParted for this task -- GParted does not give you enough granularity in what it shows you (it rounds things up, refers to things by megabytes or gigabytes rather than LBA numbers, etc.). But what I am seeing in GParted indicates the partition is not properly aligned; your SSD is probably suffering badly as a result of this (excessive erase-write cycles / stress, and bad performance).

Use diskpar.exe (not diskpart.exe -- diskpart.exe on Windows XP cannot be used to determine this) on Windows XP, specifically diskpar -i 0 (assuming the SSD is drive 0), and provide the output here.

Alternately you can run AS SSD and provide a screenshot of that, which can tell you if the partition is aligned (I can show you how to determine that).

Also just to make it clear: you need to align every partition on your drive. Since you're obviously multi-booting, you need to make sure your NTFS partition is properly aligned, your Linux swap partition is properly aligned, and your Linux (data) partition is properly aligned.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
reply to Fishead1

Quick question.What is the difference between WIN 7 Home,WIN7 Pro,WIN 7 Ultimate?


aguen
Premium
join:2003-07-16
Grants Pass, OR
kudos:2
reply to Fishead1

»cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=win+7+···R6kVcQ--



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Thanks aguen.



Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
reply to Fishead1

I was just checking what version of Windows XP I had and its an OEM version.If I get Window 7 Home edition OEM will there be problems with activation?



ImpldConsent
Under Siege
Premium
join:2001-03-04
Mcdonough, GA
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·magicjack.com

said by Fishead1:

I was just checking what version of Windows XP I had and its an OEM version.If I get Window 7 Home edition OEM will there be problems with activation?

Get the OEM version of W7 Pro. The most I ever paid was 119.00. There is no issue with activation, you are supplied the Product Key and the DVD. Do yourself a favor and what all have advised: Windows 7 minimum on SSD.
--
That's "MISTER" Kafir to you.


Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

ImpldConsent any reason for WIN 7 Pro instead of Home Edition?
And when they say no Microsoft support does that have anything to do with the Updates you can download?
I'm also looking at Newegg,Tiger Direct and they both have it for close to $140.I'll do a little more searching around and see if I can find it cheaper.



koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23

said by Fishead1:

ImpldConsent any reason for WIN 7 Pro instead of Home Edition?

You may want to review this more granular chart instead:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_···on_chart
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


Fishead1
Premium
join:2001-05-08
Bronx, NY

Thanks everyone.


n_w95482
Premium
join:2005-08-03
Ukiah, CA
reply to Fishead1

said by Fishead1:

And when they say no Microsoft support does that have anything to do with the Updates you can download?

Updates should be available to download for years to come, however, they will stop producing new ones.

Cool to see someone else running XP x64. I ran it a few years ago. For the most part, it worked fine. I occasionally had to do some workarounds with software installs (mainly games), as they would detect it as Windows Server 2003 (it uses the same kernel) and refuse to install. The only thing that outright didn't work was my crappy Lexmark printer, but as it was a POS, and I hardly printed anyway, I didn't care much.
--
KI6RIT