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dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to TheSMJ

Re: Should I run RG6 or skip it?

Run 2 quad sheild lines to the main areas for future sat installs.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

said by Arrgh Gee 6 :

Get quad-shield.

For the typical in-home wall runs, this isn't necessary or even useful.

Actually, with the higher speed data, and having choice what room to locate a cablemodem, quadshield is the ONLY choice.

I'd pull a fish tape with each incase something else is needed in those rooms...but that is me.
--
Splat


wa2ibm
Premium
join:2000-10-10
San Jose, CA
reply to TheSMJ

Don't use closed electrical outlet boxes for your keystone plates and jacks. RG6, especially Quad, is pretty stiff and you'll have a devil of a time getting one, let alone two, pushed back into the box when you try to install the face plate.

You should use class 2 wiring rings which don't have sides or a back so that you have the entire space of the wall to bend the cables around.

Something like this:
»www.homedepot.com/p/t/100157326?···Y55Nm2o0
--
- Bill


TheSMJ

join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI

As a matter of fact, I'm using mud rings very similar to the one you linked.


ke4pym
Premium
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC
Reviews:
·VOIPO
·ooma
·Verizon Broadban..
·Northland Cable ..
·Time Warner Cable

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to cableties

said by cableties:

said by ke4pym:

said by Arrgh Gee 6 :

Get quad-shield.

For the typical in-home wall runs, this isn't necessary or even useful.

Actually, with the higher speed data, and having choice what room to locate a cablemodem, quadshield is the ONLY choice.

I'd pull a fish tape with each incase something else is needed in those rooms...but that is me.

Perhaps if you live next to a TV transmitter or if there is a $3 difference between DS and QS cable or you're buying less-than-high-quality-cable-from-China (read: copper-claded center core). The better built DS cable will smoke the cheaper built QS stuff floating around on the web in the interference rejection department. Or you're running 300-500 foot runs (which then you should step up to RG11).

Otherwise, there's no need for QS in a home.

As far as data speed - DirecTV recommends RG6 solid-copper-center-conductor dual-shield with 60% braid coverage or better, swept-tested to 3 GHz. Even though they only use about 2.1GHz of that. Your cable modem isn't going to get anywhere *close* to using that kind of bandwidth (DOCSIS 3, with 8 channels used is only using 48MHz of bandwidth).

As for personal experience, I've installed 3, 1000 foot rolls of Perfect Vision DS and have yet to have a problem. With any of it.

edit - I, apparently don't know the difference between your and you're. Fixed it.

edit #2 - Comment on cable modem BW and here's a very good read on QS/DS cables:
»www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/···ding.htm


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to TheSMJ

Run the coax! To keep it simple and cheap, leave it unterminated in the same box that your CAT6 jacks come out of.

CAT6 doesn't have nearly the bandwidth of RG6, so a balun won't work for anything other than a specialized application. CAT6 is good to 250mhz (some are rated to 550mhz). Cable systems generally need 900mhz, and DBS signals use all the way up to 2ghz.

-- Rob
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.



mackey
Premium
join:2007-08-20
kudos:12
reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

(DOCSIS 3, with 8 channels used is only using 48MHz of bandwidth)

While your modem might only use a 48MHz wide chunk, that doesn't mean it isn't located north of 700MHz or the cable company is only using a single group of 8 channels.

+1 to the "don't by cheap Chinese junk cable" though

/M


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL
reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

For the typical in-home wall runs, this isn't necessary or even useful.

The CATV sub-contractors (Comcast) I have had to deal with will not connect to pre-wired coax that is not quad.


54067323

join:2012-09-25
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

reply to ke4pym

said by ke4pym:

Perhaps if you live next to a TV transmitter or if there is a $3 difference between DS and QS cable or you're buying less-than-high-quality-cable-from-China (read: copper-claded center core).

For what it is worth the majority of RG-6 utilizes BCCS Bare Copper Covered Steel which is required to provide the strength needed for the center conductor to be used as a plug when terminated with an F connector?

The reason the BSSC works is RF does not flow through the center conductor but actually travels down the copper plating by what is known as the skin effect.

This is an example of what I am referring to, it’s a name brand coax (branded Honeywell) and note the rare earth magnet stuck to the center conductor.







Another example is attached.

»www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/9116.pdf

To be quite frank, about the only time a solid copper conductor is required is with CCTV cabling where it is needed handle the baseband frequencies of a video signal.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to dharel1705

said by dharel1705:

For resale value of your house

That's an expense that will return 0% at resale.

The buyers might appreciate the RG6, but it will not make them pay more, or pick that house over another one no matter what.

If TheSMJ sees no need for CATV today, he will never need it in the future. He's best to spend that money on network wiring or pocket it.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to TheSMJ

I think you already know the answer. Run it. The cost is negligible at this point because you are doing it yourself and already have done the leg work already, the walls are open. I see no reason at all not to run it. It would provide friendly future options, you never know, cable, satellite, OTA, or even camera/security feeds etc.

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable
reply to TheSMJ

DO NOT run RG-6 or anything else you don't need right now. Just to be contrary.

Heresy, I know, but hear me out. Do run 3/4" or larger ENT all over the place. Home run it if you have room, or run it back to "local" areas from which you can trunk to your wiring backboard.

You can use 4x4 boxes or, I seem to recall a low-voltage ring with a zip tie point for attaching ENT.

I have ENT all over my house. I've pulled in a little bit of RG-6, Cat 3, Cat 4, Cat 5, doorbell and thermostat wire, whatever, doesn't really matter, if it's not right I'll just pull it out and run what I need when I need it.
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by ArgMeMatey:

Heresy, I know, but hear me out. Do run 3/4" or larger ENT all over the place. Home run it if you have room, or run it back to "local" areas from which you can trunk to your wiring backboard.

I was saving that as a defense to my argument for not running RG6, as in, if being future proof is SOOO freaking important, then run future proof conduit, conduit that accommodates anything.

I didn't put many network outlets in my basement re-finishing project, but were I did put them, I ran them with flexible smurf tube all the way back to the soon-to-be-network-under-stairs-closet.

That means anything that the next 50 years bring in terms of wiring, these tubes should accommodate it.

U1862122

join:2013-04-05
reply to TheSMJ

There was no RG6 installed in my house so there is now RG6 wires on the outside of the house. I'm working to install them the right way but it's brutal to install wires in a 50 year old house. I'd highly recommend just spending the $40 for 500 feet of RG6 and putting it all over!


U1862122

join:2013-04-05
reply to TheSMJ

The quad is about 40% more expensive.


Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

said by dharel1705:

For resale value of your house

That's an expense that will return 0% at resale.

The buyers might appreciate the RG6, but it will not make them pay more, or pick that house over another one no matter what.

It won't add any value to the property but it will play into the decision making process. $40 in cable now or hundreds of dollars later. It played into my house searching 2 years ago.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by Critsmcgee:

It won't add any value to the property but it will play into the decision making process.

I am not in real estate, but I am a lot in mortgages at work.
I could ask realtors if you want, but I am 99% certain that this will NOT play any role in the decision making.

Even if you had two houses side-by-side that were IDENTICAL and one had CATV wiring while the other one didn't, the tie-breaking factor will be about what/who are the neighbors and not whether the house has CATV or not.

Ostracus

join:2011-09-05
Henderson, KY

Commodity status, or rather the service is perceived as such. If it was Ethernet, then it might mean something if say Google fiber eventually came to one's town.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

I bought an older house a good number of years ago. I knew it needed work and got it for a good price. Between abandoned and in use phone and cable wires, I took about 3/4 mile of cable off of the outside of that house. A wired house adds value to anyone who has had to experience having drops installed by either the cable company or the Telco. If Ostracus See Profile and rumors are correct, then the rewiring I did (including ethernet) may "mean something" if Google announces they are bring fiber to Austin at the news conference next Tuesday as is being suggested.

My recommendation is to wire every room that has exposed wall framework where cable may someday be desired.



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to 95688065

said by 95688065:

That's normal rg6 and shielded rg6. All you need is the cheap stuff.

No.

NO. NO. NO.

While, I'm not going to say that you should go all out and install Quad shield, you should install AT LEAST DUAL shield with a 60% braid. There is nothing wrong with Copper Clad Steel, in fact, I've installed thousands of feet of high end coax that was all Copper Clad Steel center conductor.

If you really want to future proof, and you have enough, it wouldn't hurt to put in two runs.

Also, Home run everything.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
reply to TheSMJ

We built our home in 2010. We ran cable everywhere. Every room except the kitchen and the hallway. And I sometimes wish I did those two as well. And I wish I ran it to various locations in each room. All bedrooms have one, while the living room has two. It makes furniture arrangement limited in the bedrooms.

Most everything is going wireless now days, even TV connections, so it isn't such a big deal anymore. I can tell you that when we bought our last house (before building this one) we did not even consider whether or not it had cable ran everywhere. If you want to do this, do it for your convenience, not for any resale. People are not going to make their decision on that.


Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

said by Critsmcgee:

It won't add any value to the property but it will play into the decision making process.

I am not in real estate, but I am a lot in mortgages at work.
I could ask realtors if you want, but I am 99% certain that this will NOT play any role in the decision making.

Even if you had two houses side-by-side that were IDENTICAL and one had CATV wiring while the other one didn't, the tie-breaking factor will be about what/who are the neighbors and not whether the house has CATV or not.

Ask anyone you want and as many of them as you want. I've bought 3 houses and coax has been a requirement in all 3 for me. My sister and parents the same. As a matter of fact even the service providers came into the picture. Last year when I bought this house FIOS was a requirement. The fact is coax DOES play a role in decision making for some people. Discount it all you want but blanket statements will never win and you know it. At best you can say something like "For most people it won't play into the decision process". A 100% statement just gets you into trouble.

For your example those people don't know what to look for. The most common problem with people is they don't know what they want or what to look for. A Realtor will tell you whatever sells the house. Do they care if you have cable or internet once you buy the house? NO! Do they care if it costs you $300-500 to have the house wired? NO! This is a classic hindsight problem with buying property.

Next people will be saying a septic system vs sewer or electric range vs gas range or driveway length/material doesn't play into the decision.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

Major utilities and appliances like those you listed have always played a role in choosing a house for most people. Whether coax is run in the walls has not played a role for most people.

Not a 100% statement. But you are in a significant minority as a buyer that would pass up a house you otherwise love just because of the lack of coax runs.



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to TheSMJ

I've run a few hundred miles of coax in my day. Here's my opinion: Run it. Don't use cheap crap.
This stuff is reasonably priced and of reasonable quality: »www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-50···oScosH6k

I'd recommend using a tri-shield or quad-shield cable.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



PoloDude
Premium,VIP
join:2006-03-29
Northport, NY
kudos:3
reply to TheSMJ

As a FiOS installer, I have been in houses that were newly redone without being pre-wired. I try to do the neatest job possible, but it is ALWAYS upsetting to the home owner when they see all the exposed cabling.
--
“My horse fights with me and fasts with me because if he is to carry me into battle, he must know my heart and I must know his or we shall never become brothers.
-Plenty Coups, Chief of the Crow”


Critsmcgee

join:2011-12-02
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by PoloDude:

As a FiOS installer, I have been in houses that were newly redone without being pre-wired. I try to do the neatest job possible, but it is ALWAYS upsetting to the home owner when they see all the exposed cabling.

Good thing it wasn't a concern when they bought the property right? Now they have no one to blame but themselves! If only people understood their decisions. As Lurch77 pointed out the majority of people wouldn't consider it but you better believe they'll bitch out it later. Hindsight is always 20-20.

scooper

join:2000-07-11
Youngsville, NC
kudos:2
reply to TheSMJ

If I was in your shoes -
RUN IT - TWO runs of it in fact - to every wall in every room, all to central wiring closet (or at least a central location). As well as the same for CAT5E/CAT6. And make sure it's all labeled at your home run as well as the endpoints.

Back in 2000, when I first got Dish, I went on an RG6 cable wiring spree - our kitchen and bedroom got 2 runs of RG6 from the central points in the family room and attic, even though I needed only 1 run at the time for signal distribution. It worked out REALLY nice for me when I got some new technology that required different coax run than my original - it meant a wiring job that could have required all day took only a couple hours to put the new system in place.

I haven't done the same thing on the UTP - I've only run point to point where I needed it - Wifi has saved alot of effort on that score.

I do differ from some of these other people by saying "RG6 coax is RG6 coax" - none of my installed cable was swept to anything, yet it has all worked well in DBS use to what ever Dish uses in what ever technology their using.

I would invest in some decent tools and/or a system for putting on cable ends - it makes the job so much easier. I used to use crimp ons (with a big heavyduty die), but I've switched over to compression ends for my last couple projects. The tools you can find at Lowes/ Home Depot will work fine for the average homeowner.


TheSMJ

join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI
reply to TheSMJ

I bought a $50, 500' spool of quad shielded RG6. It was only $15 more than the dual shielded stuff, and I figured that I'd rather spend a little more on the cable now then get stuck kicking myself later if it doesn't work out for whatever reason.

Now I'm trying to figure out how many drops per room. I wasn't aware satellite systems needed two wires (I've never hooked one up before) and I was only planning on two drops in each room w/ one on opposite walls. But with this information maybe I should run two per wall?

I'm putting way too much thought into something I may not ever use...



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by TheSMJ:

I wasn't aware satellite systems needed two wires (I've never hooked one up before)
I'm putting way too much thought into something I may not ever use...

Directv satellite only needs one coax.

TheSMJ

join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI

So then why do most people seem to recommend running two per tv location?