 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
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 ·CenturyLink
| reply to John Galt
Re: ATF Wants Massive Online Database to Find Out Your Friends! You want to prove that we're all within 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon? You could probably get a gummint grant to research that and build a "nice" database for them in the process 
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 EGeezerGo CatsPremium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8 | reply to fatness
said by fatness: ... tax money will go to ATF to pay to a private vendor to create a database of information from other public and private sources. In other words, the information will be available to the private sector. Not you and me, of course, but those with enough $ to make money off it.
Government doesn't have to build dossiers when they can simply buy them from private businesses whose data collection, analysis, indexing and retention dwarfs that of the government.
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 fatnesssubtleJanitor
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| said by EGeezer:said by fatness: ... tax money will go to ATF to pay to a private vendor to create a database of information from other public and private sources. In other words, the information will be available to the private sector. Not you and me, of course, but those with enough $ to make money off it.
Government doesn't have to build dossiers when they can simply buy them from private businesses whose data collection, analysis, indexing and retention dwarfs that of the government. There's truth in what you said, but the government does have information (regarding previous arrests, investigations, associations, evidence, etc.) that private businesses don't have and are not much interested in for pushing their advertising.
Combining the 2 sources seems to be the goal here. Which means that criminal-related stuff will be given to a private vendor or vendors to compile with the rest of the stuff.
No doubt security for this directory will be top notch. The request is not only for a database but for full-time 24-hour tech support as well. I'm sure all the tech support people will be highly trained, highly paid, thoroughly dedicated, and will pass all required security checks. And I'm sure that the information will be closely safeguarded to make sure only those authorized to view it will have it. Meaning, the data won't be secure, and whoever offers someone enough money will get access to it.
Wait til the tech support is outsourced.
Wait til the lobbyists get through convincing the government to use the database for A or B reasons (MPAA and RIAA purposes for example) and convincing the government to exempt X and Y from any investigation resulting from information in the database (for example, the ATF is currently prohibited by law from creating any database to track gun sales, despite the fact that doing so is part of their job).
This database will be an industry dream and a security wreck. And tax money will pay for it.
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StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium
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·CenturyLink
| said by fatness:...I'm sure all the tech support people will be highly trained, highly paid, thoroughly dedicated, and will pass all required security checks. And I'm sure that the information will be closely safeguarded to make sure only those authorized to view it will have it. My sarcasm detector just pegged at 100%
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fatnesssubtleJanitor
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| I picture 2 things:
1. Data security along the lines of the "top secret" information Bradley Manning supposedly got from a "top secret" government network. 200,000 people had access to the information in that network.
2. Conversations like this.
Hello, I'm Brad with Tech Support. To whom am I speaking and how may I help you?
This is the FBI.
Please hold for a minute while I confirm something.
*pause*
OK, I see that you are running Windows FBI. May I ask which Service Pack? This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes I must add.
click
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1 edit | reply to antdude
Let me guess, this is about the "firearms" and not the alcohol or tobacco? |
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 SnowymIRC unix.ro UnderNetPremium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Clearwire Wireless
| said by Faster:Let me guess, this is about the "firearms" part and not the alcohol or tobacco part?
Why stop there?
Every alcoholic that uses a reward or other store card for their alcohol purchases will be filed under "Alcoholics"
That will be further broken into sections
1. Government Employees -
Classified from "Top Echelon/High Value" through "Scrap/Waste"
2. Judges -
Classified from
Federal - Supreme/Appeals/District
States - Supreme/District
3. Lawyers -
etc...
The potential for abuse will guarantee it's abuse. |
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 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
·Frontier Communi..
| said by Snowy:...
The potential for abuse will guarantee it's abuse.
+1. That should be enshrined as "Snowy's Law."
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| reply to John Galt
i'm thinkin a revolt of sorts is like maybe not to far away
ww |
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 Phoenix22Death From AbovePremium
join:2001-12-11
SOG C&C Nrth
·Comcast Formerl..
| said by WolfWoman:i'm thinkin a revolt of sorts is like maybe not to far away
ww
thatz my girl.......sooner than a sooner.....
jkk? r u payin' close attention here? |
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 JuggernautIrreverent or irrelevant?Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:1 | reply to WolfWoman
Bob just saw that. SWAT is on their way now. Please open the door, and lay on the floor, hands on head. |
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Phoenix22Death From AbovePremium
join:2001-12-11
SOG C&C Nrth | reply to La Luna
so.....should i drop the normal "ass....u....me" rule.....and accept the fact that "DOGPILE" is your preferred search motor? |
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 La LunaSurvived AshrafulPremium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3 | reply to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:said by La Luna:...unless they're interested in things like my dog eating a package of Peeps... Well if a law is ever passed making feeding dogs Peeps illegal they'll know where to find you. And that's the point. One can never know how all this information will be used against you sometime in the future. Here's a specific example for you. Suppose you apply for some job but the employer hates dogs. In this day and age they'll find your FB page. You'll never know, if you don't get the job, whether that was a factor or not. I know that's a hypothetical situation, but frankly, if that's the way they felt about dogs (for example), I wouldn't want to work there anyway! So maybe it works in FAVOR some of the time.
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La LunaSurvived AshrafulPremium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3 | reply to Phoenix22
said by Phoenix22:so.....should i drop the normal "ass....u....me" rule.....and accept the fact that "DOGPILE" is your preferred search motor?
Haven't resorted to that yet, but I'll check it out. |
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 Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | reply to antdude
Jury of your peers = warrant less data is useless
and becomes null/void.
I have little experience in this I dragged out a case on some misdemeanor charges before on a technicality. Only with the intent of wasting tens of thousands tax payer dollars. Well worth the few years wasted dragging it out.. Only for them to drop it when I turned 18. 
Fine , charges and probation was null/voided the day I turned 18. |
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fatnesssubtleJanitor
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| reply to Faster
said by Faster:Let me guess, this is about the "firearms" and not the alcohol or tobacco?
For people whose interest is politics, not country, that is the issue that alarms them. And when a president is elected from the opposite party they'll suddenly drop the alarm and the database will become something they'll support to "protect children" and to "root out terrorists before they strike" etc.
People who think privacy is secondary to politics are ruining the country.
People who really care about privacy, who opposed the huge growth of government surveillance, data collection, intrusion, unlawful detention, and subversion of due process haven't changed their views since the "war on terror" started. They opposed that huge expansion under Bush and oppose it under Obama. And in the earlier days, 2001-2008, they were outnumbered on this board.
Since 2008 when the presidency changed parties there's been more opposition to increased government measures due to Obama being in charge instead of Bush. My believe is that increased opposition will fade away when another Republican president is elected. And those interested in these issues for only partisan reason will expose themselves as short-sighted political frauds with no real concern for privacy.
This database, if an when it gets built and operational, will be used by any damn federal agency that wants to use it. It's not going to be just ATF, it's not about just "guns", it's the entire government and how they monitor citizens. |
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StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium
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Galt's Gulch
kudos:2 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
| said by fatness:People who think privacy is secondary to politics are ruining the country. +1
They opposed that huge expansion under Bush and oppose it under Obama.
This database, if an when it gets built and operational, will be used by any damn federal agency that wants to use it. It's not going to be just ATF, it's not about just "guns", it's the entire government and how they monitor citizens.
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fatnesssubtleJanitor
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| reply to WolfWoman
said by WolfWoman:i'm thinkin a revolt of sorts is like maybe not to far away
ww
Yes, people will write angry posts from cubicles talking about fighting this to the death. Then they'll go to Applebees for lunch.
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Round round get around. I get around. |
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StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2 | And make calls/texts from their Smartphone (all the data from which goes to the gummint).
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fatnesssubtleJanitor
join:2000-11-17
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kudos:14 | All my friends on facebook are revoltin'! |
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