 monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | waterheater/gas - advice Hello guys, some of you were aware about me moving out recently. It's been so stressful. I was looking for some advice on this gas/waterheater situation.
When I initially moved in, the gas company came to turn on everything, they claimed the ventilation for the water heater was not working correctly so they could not leave the pilot on.
Plumber came by to "fix" it, turned everything on and I thought we were good. 5 days later, there is a strange smell in the back area where the water heater is located, my bf's throat has been hurting for an odd reason, my voice has started to crackle here and there. So i call the gas company again(not the plumber) and ask them to come out, they find a gas leak and upon further investigation, the guy asked if the ventilation had been recently worked on, I said yes actually, they replaced the tubing. Gas employee says the ventilation is STILL not working, so he cannot leave the pilot on.
Today the same plumber came back, he is saying that you are naturally going to have some carbon smell, it's an old place/waterheater and that most likely the waterheater will need to be replaced. SO... I basically put the facts together, gas employee says there should not be any heat coming from the open vent area and he match tested, and the smoke did not go through the vent, went straight to the room we were in. I am uploading a pic with what I am referring to.
So I told the plumber, basically you're saying that is normal and it's ok, but the gas company who received 0 money from me is claiming it is NOT OK and it is a health hazard since that is where the carbon comes out of which has no scent. He said yes basically that.
I am at lost at what to do, I still have not signed a lease, have not even paid rent. And at this point I am concerned for my health. So if the landlord/plumber claim it is ok, I will say then that is fine I will not be staying here.
What I do want to ask is if any of you who have experience with a waterheater, is it normal or not to have a little carbon in the air AND if heat should be coming out of the vent towards the room?
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | a chimney guy might know more about the flu pipe.
does that share with the furnace for heating? or does the furnace have its own flu? Either way might be good to make sure there is no blockages somewhere, seeing that foil tape makes me think that pipe has been dismantled at some point and since it is rather shiny still it cannot have been that long ago.
On a side note that blow off valve should have a pipe going down to the floor.
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | I am guessing the blow off valve is the stem sticking out with no pipe attached to it?
My stove has an open vent on the ceiling, no fan or anything. Sorry I am no expert at home things... yet :/
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KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | yep the blowoff safety is that pipe that is partly in the left side of your red box.
The reason it should have a pipe and that aims down to the floor is that its purpose is that in the event the thermostat on the WH fails and gets stuck in operational mode it will release the pressure of the tank in a safe manner. Well somewhat safe and that is what the pipe does, because when that baby does have to let go boiling water and steam will blast out of that valve. I do not know if such is code but it is more of a safety thing.
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | said by Kearnstd:yep the blowoff safety is that pipe that is partly in the left side of your red box.
The reason it should have a pipe and that aims down to the floor is that its purpose is that in the event the thermostat on the WH fails and gets stuck in operational mode it will release the pressure of the tank in a safe manner. Well somewhat safe and that is what the pipe does, because when that baby does have to let go boiling water and steam will blast out of that valve. I do not know if such is code but it is more of a safety thing.
Makes total sense. Thanks for the heads up.
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 Mr NeutronMackerel by MoonlightPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME | reply to monchis
said by monchis:So I told the plumber, basically you're saying that is normal and it's ok, but the gas company who received 0 money from me is claiming it is NOT OK and it is a health hazard since that is where the carbon comes out of which has no scent. He said yes basically that.
I have to ask: where did you get this plumber? Is he some random guy your landlord sent by (possibly a friend of theirs "who knows plumbing"), or did you find him on the Internet or ???
Unfortunately, plumbers not only come in different shapes and sizes, they also come with varying degrees of competency. Are there friends/coworkers you can talk to to find a tested, known good plumber local to you who can examine/fix this?
Honestly, it sounds to me as though you're not hooked up with the right guy. 
Also, have you had a chat with your landlord about a) when the unit was originally installed (they're only good for a few years) and/or replacing the water heater? This might simply be a case of an otherwise well-meaning landlord needing gentle "reminding" that a key appliance in one their units needs to be replaced now-ish.
If this weren't to do with the water heater, but rather, was some sort of minor repair, then I could see yourself taking things into your own hands. Now, I could be wrong, but water heaters strike me as landlords' territory, not something a tenant should ever need to worry about. If a repair or a replacement has to be effected on the water heater, it seems to me that your landlord, not you, should be taking care of it.
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 THZNDUPDeorum Offensa Diis CuraePremium
join:2003-09-18
Lard
kudos:2 | Water heaters are only good for a few years? I guess the definition of 'few' is up for debate, as is water quality, maint., etc. 
Many sources will state the usable lifespan for an electric unit is 10-15yrs and 15-18yrs for gas. The National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) gives electric 14yrs and gas 11-13yrs.
Did I mention the one I've got(and currently using) was made in 1976? I'd take a picture of the data plate but taking the blanket and straps off are a pain. It will probably be replaced in June, however, by one with a 12year warranty. I'd better get 20yrs or more out of it. 
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
The water heater is 25 years old. The thing is I don't think it's the water heater because the socalgas tech said it was the ventilation and it needed to be inspected for clogs going to the roof.
I am pretty much just being the middle man here saying something is wrong. Plumber has worked with landlord for 20 years, he seems nice but also looks like he just tries to get his stuff done without testing correctly...
Now I am just waiting for the landlord to call me to tell me what is going to happen.
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Along with all the other suggestions I'd run to a store that sells carbon monoxide detectors and plug one in in that room. They are well worth the price and peace of mind they bring if nothing else...
Also it would not be the first time I've found chimneys of this size blocked with bird or wasp nests. |
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 La LunaSurvived AshrafulPremium
join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3 | reply to monchis
Why are you dealing with this? The landlord should be handling it, unless you are living there rent free. |
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | reply to BlueMist
Thanks for the tip!!! That would definitely help me have peace of mind. I am going to get one of those tomorrow.
Luna, I am not doing anything besides making calls.
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I just recently watched a show on ID where a tenant had a similar issue as yours. The LL sent over his monkey ass maintenance guy to supposedly "fix it". New tenant moves in a week later turns on the heat and the whole family died of carbon monoxide poisoning, think it was 2 adults and 3 kids. Long story short please go buy some carbon monoxide detectors.
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Professional student pilot! |
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said by monchis:if heat should be coming out of the vent towards the room? It might for a few seconds when it first turns on, but after that it should NOT be coming out. In fact, it should be sucking IN slightly. Anything else is dumping carbon monoxide into the room.
quote:
Test the Draw: Light a match or piece of paper and blow it out. Place it near the bottom of the flue. If the smoke is not sucked in with authority, the flue may be blocked or in need of cleaning. Also check the joints in the same manner with a it match or candle. If the flame is sucked toward the joint then it needs tightening.
Also, the Home Improvement forum would be a better place for this...
/M |
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 DKSDamn Kidney StonesPremium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
 ·Bell Sympatico
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In our gas regulations, the system is "Red Tagged" (and yes, a red tag is placed on the valve) and the gas is shut off, end of story. The plumber repairs and the gas company retests, turning the gas back on. Huge liability for the plumber if he gets it wrong. I suspect the plumber is a) incompetent or b) unlicensed.
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Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
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 J E F FWhatta Ya Think About Dat?Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
 ·Rogers Portable ..
·WIND Mobile
 ·Rogers Hi-Speed
 ·magicjack.com
| reply to monchis
It's not normal for any fumes to be coming into the living area, at all. Make sure the next plumber has some sort of gas license. It's very possible that that water heater needs a fan inside the exhaust to have with proper removal, I'm pretty sure there is a formula for that - length of exhaust - but it's not handy at the moment. It's also possible that your exhaust has become clogged with a birds nest...which is a major issue.
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
Thanks guys, I am not sure if this is licensed or not. I believe I mentioned he has worked with the landlords apartments for 20 years. As soon as he "fixes" it again, I will call the gas company to come follow up. I think he probably has a hard time of investing on doing something right an pricey versus doing a "mickey mouse" which is a term I learned from my dad when it's a workaround and most likely break again.
Also I will be buying a detector today, I could've sworn that there is one somewhere in the house already. The good thing is that there are HUGE windows in the room located where the water heater is. It's the back entrance to the apartment.
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
·Comcast
·Embarq Now Centu..
| reply to monchis
My parents owned a home with an adjacent cottage which was only occupied in the summer. They hired a competent plumber to turn on the water and LP gas water heater in cottage in the spring. After the plumber lit the burner he waited about 5 minutes then lighted a punk which produces smoke. He held the punk next to open area of the draft regulator just above the top of the tank as shown in the red box. If the smoke from the punk was drawn into the draft regulator the flue was open and he took no further action. If the smoke was not drawn into the flue he went up on the roof and removed whatever was blocking the airflow. When you have the gas burner turned on check to see if smoke will be drawn into the flue. If not buy a gas mask rated for carbon monoxide and wear it whenever you are home or have the landlord have the flue unblocked. |
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monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
Talked to my landlord today, she is getting the water heater replaced + plumber or someone will be checking the flue to see what is causing the lock.
Made my day, i was really being pessimistic and already looking for other apartments.
The funny thing is, I don't think it's the water heater causing the issue (but what do I know) the gas tech said it was the vent. The plumber is suggesting we replace the water heater, again not sure why he thinks it's that but who knows.
Anywho... I am writing from my balcony... FINALLY it is done. It has been such a hot mess moving in here, now the last thing is this water heater. I got my carbon minoxide detector, do you guys recommend I install it in this actual room? I was thinking on the wall where you see the water heater in the pic, towards the left that way if I have the window open(on the right) it blows air towards the detector. What do you guys think?
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | said by monchis:I got my carbon minoxide detector, do you guys recommend I install it in this actual room?
Read the directions which came with the detector. They should give specific instructions on it's placement. As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source. |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:yep the blowoff safety is that pipe that is partly in the left side of your red box.
The reason it should have a pipe and that aims down to the floor is that its purpose is that in the event the thermostat on the WH fails and gets stuck in operational mode it will release the pressure of the tank in a safe manner. Well somewhat safe and that is what the pipe does, because when that baby does have to let go boiling water and steam will blast out of that valve. I do not know if such is code but it is more of a safety thing.
Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply. |
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