 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
Re: waterheater/gas - advice said by monchis:The water heater is 25 years old. The thing is I don't think it's the water heater because the socalgas tech said it was the ventilation and it needed to be inspected for clogs going to the roof.
I am pretty much just being the middle man here saying something is wrong. Plumber has worked with landlord for 20 years, he seems nice but also looks like he just tries to get his stuff done without testing correctly...
Now I am just waiting for the landlord to call me to tell me what is going to happen.
The installation is 25 years old. Probably predates our fixation on codes now. The T&P should have had the down pipe but that's a moot point now as the WH is inoperable.
The lord has called and the WH is being replaced. The vent pipe and pipe from the T&P should be corrected at that time. |
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 jack bGone FishingPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
Replacing the tank is not going to make a exhaust vent problem disappear.
National code requires piping the T&P valve discharge outlet down to within six inches of the floor or to a suitable drain.
That installation is a real cluster-_ _ _ _. Galvanized mixed with flex copper and the duct tape on the flue...
good luck!
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 Mr NeutronMackerel by MoonlightPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME | reply to monchis
said by monchis:Talked to my landlord today, she is getting the water heater replaced + plumber or someone will be checking the flue to see what is causing the lock.
It's good to hear that your landlord is on top of things (did she say when the work would take place?). It sounds like you didn't have to wait more than a day or two to hear back from her and a prompt response like that is a good sign she takes an interest in fixing stuff.
said by monchis:Made my day, i was really being pessimistic and already looking for other apartments.
Thinking pessimistically isn't necessarily a bad thing. Generally speaking, when you think pessimistically, you can only be pleasantly surprised (as opposed to the other kind of surprise). 
Anyway, it's nice to hear that you'll be able to settle down soon and start enjoying your new place once this is fixed.
--
Male Announcer: "The red zone has always been for loading and unloading. There's never stopping in a white zone."
Female Announcer: "Don't tell me which zone is for stopping and which zone is for loading!" |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:said by robbin:As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source.
Just to specify for those who might not read it right: It should be no less than 15' away. Any closer and you risk getting false alarms. If there is any type of gas appliance in the dwelling CO detectors are essential along with dual Smoke Detectors. |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | reply to robbin
said by robbin:As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source.
Just to specify for those who might not read it right: It should be no less than 15' away. Any closer and you risk getting false alarms. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
OP I have confidence that your Land-Lord will solve your problem with the new Water Heater. I also have confidence that it will be installed properly and to code even with a down pipe on the T&P valve as required. You should have no problem with the gas company lighting the pilot. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
Once again, isn't it a good idea to give the OP information so they can be aware of potential problems. Personally I don't care if the plumber pulls a permit, just that they did the job as if they did. The permit issue is between the OP and their landlord as far as I'm concerned. But when the OP posts a pic of the new water heater I'm sure that many here will review the install for occupant safety and code compliance. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to robbin
said by robbin:said by Jack_in_VA:I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
This thread isn't about you. It's about a person apparently renting in California. Don't you think they should have the information to make their own decision as to if it applies to them as well as to their risk if the relief valve opens while they are standing there. As stated by the OP the WH T&P can not operate because the gas company will not supply gas to the burner. Therefore no heat or pressure. The OP also stated the WH was going to be replaced by the Land-Lord. Problem should be solved as the old unit is essentially moot. Assuming the new WH should be installed per existing codes there is no problem. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
This thread isn't about you. It's about a person apparently renting in California. Don't you think they should have the information to make their own decision as to if it applies to them as well as to their risk if the relief valve opens while they are standing there. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to leibold
said by leibold:I hear more and more often from people having issues because their T&P valves are trickling water. In most cases this is due to the water utility replacing traditional water meters with a combination of water meter & backflow preventer with poor communication to the homeowner about the consequences of that change (specifically the need for an expansion tank).
Then the utility would be liable if they fail to inform the homeowner of the change and what would be needed to make it safe. An expansion tank is essential if a check valve is on the supply. Most likely thought if that amount of pressure built up a hose on the clothes washer or fridge ice-maker would let go.
T&P valves typically are set at 150 psi and 210 F. On gas water heaters there is a gas shutoff valve that is independent of other controls that shuts the gas off at 210 degrees F.
I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
Besides the original topic was the improper venting causing the gas company to not leave the pilot on. The Land-Lord is replacing the Water Heater so the problem should be solved. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Pressure reducing valves PRV's can't act as a check valve. The construction is much different from what is required for a check valve.
they are treated the same in other parts of code. From your neck of the woods --
"Water Heaters and Expansion Tanks
The need for an expansion tank with new or existing water heaters has been a point of confusion for many. The information below will hopefully provide clarity on this issue for plumbers and homeowners alike.
Where Required
Expansion tanks are required when a plumbing system contains a check valve, backflow preventer, pressure reducing valve or a pressure increasing pump. Most homes in Fairfax County, the town of Vienna and the city of Falls Church do not require any of these devices, and therefore, an expansion tank is not required."
»www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/cons···ters.htm |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:5
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to Jack_in_VA
I hear more and more often from people having issues because their T&P valves are trickling water. In most cases this is due to the water utility replacing traditional water meters with a combination of water meter & backflow preventer with poor communication to the homeowner about the consequences of that change (specifically the need for an expansion tank).
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to robbin
said by robbin:said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
The house could have a pressure reducing valve and that would act as a check valve. But the point it that it is code for the relief valve to have a pipe on it so it can't blast someone if (when) it opens. Hopefully the plumber will pull a permit when replacing the old unit so this defect should be taken care of in the new install. Pressure reducing valves PRV's can't act as a check valve. The construction is much different from what is required for a check valve. Most electric water heaters have an over-temp cut out switch high on the tank that is separate from the thermostats than can fail. It will cut the unit off long before the temp increases to the level to trip the T&P valve. I'm not sure about gas Water Heaters but I suspect they also have an OT to shut off the flame on over temp.
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said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
You shouldn't take everything so literally. Yes he did say "pressure" but he also said "thermostat ... gets stuck in operational mode." When that thing trips, be it due to over pressure or over temperature, very hot water under high pressure WILL come spraying out.
/M |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
The house could have a pressure reducing valve and that would act as a check valve. But the point it that it is code for the relief valve to have a pipe on it so it can't blast someone if (when) it opens. Hopefully the plumber will pull a permit when replacing the old unit so this defect should be taken care of in the new install. |
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 THZNDUPDeorum Offensa Diis CuraePremium
join:2003-09-18
Lard
kudos:2 | reply to monchis
A few reasons.
The plumber makes more money by both fixing the flue and buying/installing a new water heater.
He gets to replace it on his schedule opposed to the water heater's schedule when it fails.
He knows something he's not telling.......
A bonus for you/landlord: it 'should' be a low NOx unit and possibly even an Energy Star rated one for a rebate as well. Being more efficient for whoever pays the gas bill is a plus.
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one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:yep the blowoff safety is that pipe that is partly in the left side of your red box.
The reason it should have a pipe and that aims down to the floor is that its purpose is that in the event the thermostat on the WH fails and gets stuck in operational mode it will release the pressure of the tank in a safe manner. Well somewhat safe and that is what the pipe does, because when that baby does have to let go boiling water and steam will blast out of that valve. I do not know if such is code but it is more of a safety thing.
Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
said by monchis:I got my carbon minoxide detector, do you guys recommend I install it in this actual room?
Read the directions which came with the detector. They should give specific instructions on it's placement. As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source. |
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 monchisPremium
join:2002-12-09
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
Talked to my landlord today, she is getting the water heater replaced + plumber or someone will be checking the flue to see what is causing the lock.
Made my day, i was really being pessimistic and already looking for other apartments.
The funny thing is, I don't think it's the water heater causing the issue (but what do I know) the gas tech said it was the vent. The plumber is suggesting we replace the water heater, again not sure why he thinks it's that but who knows.
Anywho... I am writing from my balcony... FINALLY it is done. It has been such a hot mess moving in here, now the last thing is this water heater. I got my carbon minoxide detector, do you guys recommend I install it in this actual room? I was thinking on the wall where you see the water heater in the pic, towards the left that way if I have the window open(on the right) it blows air towards the detector. What do you guys think?
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Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1 Reviews:
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My parents owned a home with an adjacent cottage which was only occupied in the summer. They hired a competent plumber to turn on the water and LP gas water heater in cottage in the spring. After the plumber lit the burner he waited about 5 minutes then lighted a punk which produces smoke. He held the punk next to open area of the draft regulator just above the top of the tank as shown in the red box. If the smoke from the punk was drawn into the draft regulator the flue was open and he took no further action. If the smoke was not drawn into the flue he went up on the roof and removed whatever was blocking the airflow. When you have the gas burner turned on check to see if smoke will be drawn into the flue. If not buy a gas mask rated for carbon monoxide and wear it whenever you are home or have the landlord have the flue unblocked. |
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