 THZNDUPDeorum Offensa Diis CuraePremium
join:2003-09-18
Lard
kudos:2 | reply to monchis
Re: waterheater/gas - advice A few reasons.
The plumber makes more money by both fixing the flue and buying/installing a new water heater.
He gets to replace it on his schedule opposed to the water heater's schedule when it fails.
He knows something he's not telling.......
A bonus for you/landlord: it 'should' be a low NOx unit and possibly even an Energy Star rated one for a rebate as well. Being more efficient for whoever pays the gas bill is a plus.
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one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
The house could have a pressure reducing valve and that would act as a check valve. But the point it that it is code for the relief valve to have a pipe on it so it can't blast someone if (when) it opens. Hopefully the plumber will pull a permit when replacing the old unit so this defect should be taken care of in the new install. |
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| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
You shouldn't take everything so literally. Yes he did say "pressure" but he also said "thermostat ... gets stuck in operational mode." When that thing trips, be it due to over pressure or over temperature, very hot water under high pressure WILL come spraying out.
/M |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to robbin
said by robbin:said by Jack_in_VA:Unless the house has a check valve in the cold water supply the water heater cannot build up pressure above the incoming water supply pressure. The pressure will equalize with that by forcing it into the cold supply.
The house could have a pressure reducing valve and that would act as a check valve. But the point it that it is code for the relief valve to have a pipe on it so it can't blast someone if (when) it opens. Hopefully the plumber will pull a permit when replacing the old unit so this defect should be taken care of in the new install. Pressure reducing valves PRV's can't act as a check valve. The construction is much different from what is required for a check valve. Most electric water heaters have an over-temp cut out switch high on the tank that is separate from the thermostats than can fail. It will cut the unit off long before the temp increases to the level to trip the T&P valve. I'm not sure about gas Water Heaters but I suspect they also have an OT to shut off the flame on over temp.
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:5
 ·SONIC.NET
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I hear more and more often from people having issues because their T&P valves are trickling water. In most cases this is due to the water utility replacing traditional water meters with a combination of water meter & backflow preventer with poor communication to the homeowner about the consequences of that change (specifically the need for an expansion tank).
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Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Pressure reducing valves PRV's can't act as a check valve. The construction is much different from what is required for a check valve.
they are treated the same in other parts of code. From your neck of the woods --
"Water Heaters and Expansion Tanks
The need for an expansion tank with new or existing water heaters has been a point of confusion for many. The information below will hopefully provide clarity on this issue for plumbers and homeowners alike.
Where Required
Expansion tanks are required when a plumbing system contains a check valve, backflow preventer, pressure reducing valve or a pressure increasing pump. Most homes in Fairfax County, the town of Vienna and the city of Falls Church do not require any of these devices, and therefore, an expansion tank is not required."
»www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/cons···ters.htm |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1
1 edit | reply to leibold
said by leibold:I hear more and more often from people having issues because their T&P valves are trickling water. In most cases this is due to the water utility replacing traditional water meters with a combination of water meter & backflow preventer with poor communication to the homeowner about the consequences of that change (specifically the need for an expansion tank).
Then the utility would be liable if they fail to inform the homeowner of the change and what would be needed to make it safe. An expansion tank is essential if a check valve is on the supply. Most likely thought if that amount of pressure built up a hose on the clothes washer or fridge ice-maker would let go.
T&P valves typically are set at 150 psi and 210 F. On gas water heaters there is a gas shutoff valve that is independent of other controls that shuts the gas off at 210 degrees F.
I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
Besides the original topic was the improper venting causing the gas company to not leave the pilot on. The Land-Lord is replacing the Water Heater so the problem should be solved. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | said by Jack_in_VA:I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
This thread isn't about you. It's about a person apparently renting in California. Don't you think they should have the information to make their own decision as to if it applies to them as well as to their risk if the relief valve opens while they are standing there. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | said by robbin:said by Jack_in_VA:I don't have a water meter or check valve so it doesn't apply to me.
This thread isn't about you. It's about a person apparently renting in California. Don't you think they should have the information to make their own decision as to if it applies to them as well as to their risk if the relief valve opens while they are standing there. As stated by the OP the WH T&P can not operate because the gas company will not supply gas to the burner. Therefore no heat or pressure. The OP also stated the WH was going to be replaced by the Land-Lord. Problem should be solved as the old unit is essentially moot. Assuming the new WH should be installed per existing codes there is no problem. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Once again, isn't it a good idea to give the OP information so they can be aware of potential problems. Personally I don't care if the plumber pulls a permit, just that they did the job as if they did. The permit issue is between the OP and their landlord as far as I'm concerned. But when the OP posts a pic of the new water heater I'm sure that many here will review the install for occupant safety and code compliance. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to monchis
OP I have confidence that your Land-Lord will solve your problem with the new Water Heater. I also have confidence that it will be installed properly and to code even with a down pipe on the T&P valve as required. You should have no problem with the gas company lighting the pilot. |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | reply to robbin
said by robbin:As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source.
Just to specify for those who might not read it right: It should be no less than 15' away. Any closer and you risk getting false alarms. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | said by alkizmo:said by robbin:As I recall, they are supposed to be at least 15' from the flame source.
Just to specify for those who might not read it right: It should be no less than 15' away. Any closer and you risk getting false alarms. If there is any type of gas appliance in the dwelling CO detectors are essential along with dual Smoke Detectors. |
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 Mr NeutronMackerel by MoonlightPremium
join:2005-05-30
Gorham, ME | reply to monchis
said by monchis:Talked to my landlord today, she is getting the water heater replaced + plumber or someone will be checking the flue to see what is causing the lock.
It's good to hear that your landlord is on top of things (did she say when the work would take place?). It sounds like you didn't have to wait more than a day or two to hear back from her and a prompt response like that is a good sign she takes an interest in fixing stuff.
said by monchis:Made my day, i was really being pessimistic and already looking for other apartments.
Thinking pessimistically isn't necessarily a bad thing. Generally speaking, when you think pessimistically, you can only be pleasantly surprised (as opposed to the other kind of surprise). 
Anyway, it's nice to hear that you'll be able to settle down soon and start enjoying your new place once this is fixed.
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Male Announcer: "The red zone has always been for loading and unloading. There's never stopping in a white zone."
Female Announcer: "Don't tell me which zone is for stopping and which zone is for loading!" |
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