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Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Intel Fixes 8-series Chipset USB 3.0 Erratum

quote:
Intel issued a product-change notification (PCN) to partners in the motherboard industry, informing them of a new C2 stepping of the 8-series "Lynx Point" chipset. The stepping introduces a metal layers change that fixes the USB 3.0 remuneration erratum, which causes devices plugged in to USB 3.0 ports to fail to reinitialize after waking up from sleep states such as S3, requiring uses to unplug and replug them, which could get particularly irritating for people with external RAID devices that rely on USB 3.0 for host connectivity.

According to the PCN, the first socket LGA1150 motherboards in the market may not feature C2-stepping chipset. It predicts samples to be available to motherboard manufacturers by April 19, 2013; availability of qualification data (when Intel has finalized design after taking feedback from partners), by July 1 2013; customers should be ready to receive C2-stepping chips by July 31. These dates indicate that the very first batches of socket LGA1150 motherboards will still feature C1-stepping chipset that are affected by the erratum, and if you can't live with it, you should ideally wait until late-August or mid-September for the first motherboards with C2-stepping chipset to make it to the markets. Intel expects to launch its 4th generation Core "Haswell" processors and compatible LGA1150 motherboards by mid-June.

»www.techpowerup.com/182462/Intel ··· tum.html


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
Good information -- thank you.

Although I wish they would explain what the hell "metal layers change" means -- I think it's someone trying to say "silicon-level fix" but wanted to sound clever. It implies that ICs consist of a "bunch of metal layers", like shards of steel overlapping or something -- nonsense.

Here's to hoping motherboard vendors disclose the stepping version on their boxes/in their manuals, much like they did with Cougar Point (ex. "B3 Stepping"). My current workstation works wonderfully so by the time I consider upgrading I'm sure all the boards will be C2 stepping (or more likely we'll probably have some other new socket type... sigh :P).

The bug isn't a deal breaker for me personally since I don't use system sleep states at all, but lots and lots of other people do.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.

Da Man

join:2008-05-08
Hanover, PA
Its probably similar to what AMD did with Thoroughbred where adding a ninth metal layer increased clock speed.


n1zuk
making really tiny tech things
Premium
join:2001-10-24
Malta
kudos:2
reply to koitsu
"Metal layers" are the copper interconnections, or "wiring", of a silicon device.


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
said by n1zuk:

"Metal layers" are the copper interconnections, or "wiring", of a silicon device.

That doesn't help me either -- are you referring to traces, or are you referring to PCB layers?
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to Octavean
Due to having some problems with my server (which I eventually fixed) I opted to give up my Core i5 2500K / Asus P8P67 Pro system and convert it to a server. So I'm down a system the absence of which has not gone unnoticed.

I would like to replace it soon but I guess that won't happen. I'll try and wait it out but August / September is a ways off,....


ccallana
Huh?
Premium,VIP
join:2000-08-03
Folsom, CA
reply to koitsu
It is just as he said - the interconnects between si layers. Inside the chip. A silicon chip is not a single layer, just like motherboards and other PCBs are not a single layer. The metal layers connect silicon layers. How - don't ask me, way beyond my knowledge
--
"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis


koitsu
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
kudos:23
said by ccallana:

It is just as he said - the interconnects between si layers. Inside the chip. A silicon chip is not a single layer, just like motherboards and other PCBs are not a single layer. The metal layers connect silicon layers. How - don't ask me, way beyond my knowledge

Thank you -- that answers my question. No, I was not aware that ICs had multiple layers (I was always under the impression they were single layer -- happy to admit I was wrong/didn't know!). Wikipedia has quite a nice visualisation of it.
--
Making life hard for others since 1977.
I speak for myself and not my employer/affiliates of my employer.

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
Not only do they have multiple layers, but they have layers of different materials. Silicon, glass, silicon implanted with very specific "impurities" to create parts of transistors, aluminum, etc. It's a VERY complex process. They're creating microscopic transistors, resistors, capacitors, and interconnects on the die, three-dimensionally. Many years ago I worked in the factory that produced DEC's Alpha chips. IIRC, there were over 250 individual steps in the process of creating a working device.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to Octavean
They don't just use one type of stepper, either. And of course, the deposition can be of different materials (metal vapor and such). And even the etch process can vary, from using atoms to electrons. My former employer pushed the idea of "mix and match" of our products to competitors products. There is stepping that is deep and some that is shallow. Different wavelengths of light are used, even. There is photo resists in both positive and negative forms (whether or not the stepped material removes or remains). Implant steps vary, too!

I don't know much about it since I haven't been in it for years, but I sure as hell miss the business!

Stepper lenses weigh as much as more or than a ton, no kidding! I worked with primary mirrors that were 10's of thousands of dollars and made of exotic optical glasses. It can take almost an entire day just to clean a lens system safely during production.

The thing is, photolith is reaching limits of its technology, Extreme Ultra Violet leads way to even shorter wavelengths, and the science of the optics defies normal logic, sub Newtonian physics, some of it quite bizarre. And things happen that science will say can't happen in that physics (according to the state of the art).

With immersion Lithography, a goo with an optical index different than air is used to side step the limits of optics. Yes, air has an index of refraction, depending on the pressure (rarefaction) and composition.

Things are measured in sub Angstrom units, and let me tell you, that is VERY small, when making the equipment. One Angstrom is 1 x 10 ^-10 meters. I worked in Seidels and Zernikes down into the single units. I bet things have gone much more extreme since then.

But don't go by what I say, first of all, I can't talk about all of it, and second, I am a total dumbass compared to the average mind in that industry. Smart smart people!

All that costs a LOT of money and a LOT of maintenance.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Octavean
said by Octavean:

quote:
Intel issued a product-change notification (PCN) to partners in the motherboard industry, informing them of a new C2 stepping of the 8-series "Lynx Point" chipset. The stepping introduces a metal layers change that fixes the USB 3.0 remuneration erratum, which causes devices plugged in to USB 3.0 ports to fail to reinitialize after waking up from sleep states such as S3, requiring uses to unplug and replug them, which could get particularly irritating for people with external RAID devices that rely on USB 3.0 for host connectivity.

According to the PCN, the first socket LGA1150 motherboards in the market may not feature C2-stepping chipset. It predicts samples to be available to motherboard manufacturers by April 19, 2013; availability of qualification data (when Intel has finalized design after taking feedback from partners), by July 1 2013; customers should be ready to receive C2-stepping chips by July 31. These dates indicate that the very first batches of socket LGA1150 motherboards will still feature C1-stepping chipset that are affected by the erratum, and if you can't live with it, you should ideally wait until late-August or mid-September for the first motherboards with C2-stepping chipset to make it to the markets. Intel expects to launch its 4th generation Core "Haswell" processors and compatible LGA1150 motherboards by mid-June.

»www.techpowerup.com/182462/Intel ··· tum.html

I can't believe Intel is moving to yet another socket already


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
Now that they don't really have competition with chipsets, I suspect that changing sockets is the way to sell more chipsets and other mainboard parts. AMD stuck with the same socket for quite a while, too bad they don't make a truly competitive product.

I'd like to see some real pressure applied to Intel from the industry and media about this. They should at least stick with sockets for a tic and a tock. What legitmate reason is there to go from 1155 to 1150?

OTOH, I like Intel's socket design with the locking clamp.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.


ccallana
Huh?
Premium,VIP
join:2000-08-03
Folsom, CA
They do stay for tic and tock. Gen2 (Sandy) and Gen3 (Ivy) both used the same socket. Gen4(Haswell) and Gen5 probably will (I haven't seen anything yet so I don't know)
--
"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
Yeah, my comment was wrong, and it dawned on me afterwards, but still, they seem to change sockets too soon.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
said by signmeuptoo:

Yeah, my comment was wrong, and it dawned on me afterwards, but still, they seem to change sockets too soon.

Intel
Socket 775 - August 2004
Socket 1156 - Sep 2009
Socket 1366 - Sep 2009
Socket 1155 - Jan 2011
Socket 2011 - Sep 2011

AMD
Socket 939 - Jun 2004
Socket AM2 - May 2006
Socket AM2+ - Nov 2007
Socket AM3 - Apr 2010
Socket AM3+ - Oct 2011


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

1 recommendation

reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:

I can't believe Intel is moving to yet another socket already

I get that people want consistency when it comes to such things. I'm usually ready to buy a new motherboard when I'm ready to buy a new processor though so it doesn't generally bother me.

I want significant performance improvements for each generation though and that isn't always there.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
said by Octavean:

said by sk1939:

I can't believe Intel is moving to yet another socket already

I get that people want consistency when it comes to such things. I'm usually ready to buy a new motherboard when I'm ready to buy a new processor though so it doesn't generally bother me.

I want significant performance improvements for each generation though and that isn't always there.

It's not the motherboard change that bothers me, it's the process of reinstalling 70+GB of apps every time it happens.

Like Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge

n_w95482
Premium
join:2005-08-03
Ukiah, CA
reply to sk1939
You can also toss in FM1/FM2 in there as well . There's one key point with the sockets between AM2 and AM3+: backwards compatibility with a proper BIOS. AM2+ CPUs can be used in AM2 boards, AM3 CPUs can be used in AM2+ and AM2 boards, and (unofficially) AM3+ CPUs can be used in AM3 boards.

Also, 1366 was November 2008.
--
KI6RIT

HarryH3
Premium
join:2005-02-21
kudos:3
reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:

It's not the motherboard change that bothers me, it's the process of reinstalling 70+GB of apps every time it happens.

Like Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge

Pony up for the Professional version of Macrium Reflect to do a backup, then restore it to your new system using their ReDeploy tool. It will automagically detect and install the correct HAL drivers for your new mobo/CPU. (I find it to also be an awesome backup tool for everyday use.)

»kb.macrium.com/KnowledgebaseArti ··· 126.aspx