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Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2

$700 Anti-Theft Package Sold By Dealerships Is Useless

From another (canadian) automotive car forum;

There's this "feature" that car dealerships are selling when you buy a new car which it's from Globali, it's an option that apparently gets an ID number printed in every vital car part in that vehicle with an invinsible ink that can only be seen under an ultra-violet light. Now here's why it's useless.

If your vehicle gets stolen and chopped up who is going to watch for these prints? Neither cops nor junkyards know about this nor do they have the black lamps to see them and why would they spend their own time and money to check them? What database will they use to check if it's stolen? They don't have one!

Another let-down is that thieves can buy these black lamps anywhere and look for the print and then it only takes them 2 minutes of sanding with a piece of sandpaper to erase the print on the car part.

The CBC says it costs the dealership only $70 to have car parts on a vehicle printed with this invisible ink but they turn around and charge 10-fold ($700) car buyers for it.



Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
The best thing you can do is have good insurance. The second best thing you can do is make your vehicle more troublesome than the one next to it. They'll usually go for the easier target. For example, gas thieves will hopefully skip your car if it has a locking cap and the car right next to it does not. But if they want your car, they'll get it. We recently had one of our work vans stolen, despite an anti-theft system installed. It was probably gone in a matter of seconds.

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Xstar_Lumini
I have a Toyota Tacoma truck with an alarm and LoJack.
The alarm deters some amateurs, but the LoJack saves me $10 per month on my insurance premiums.
Nothing you can put on a vehicle will stop a determined and well equipped thief, they can even winch it on a flat-bed and take it.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Xstar_Lumini
A lot of dealerships around here offer it. Many used car dealerships apply etchings to the windows and body panels as part of their detailing it getting ready to show it. Then when it comes time to sell, it gets added in AFTER the final price is settled upon as part of the taxes/fees/etc. It basically only costs the dealership when the vehicle is registered, and they get to keeps any of the profits from whatever they can sell it for.

When we bought our Rendezvous this was the case. And like your quote pointed out, I knew that the etching was essentially useless. I didn't see the added on price until we were "settling up" and I refused to pay for it. He said it wasn't negotiable any more since it had already been applied and we had agreed on the price. I said bye and got up to leave. It suddenly became negotiable.

My next car purchase, it was made VERY clear up front that with the exception of registration and sales tax, the amount that I offered was the FINAL amount and that if they had costs associated with their business, that should be reflected and included in the selling price. There weren't any problems.

I bet you can guess which dealer I would return to and which one I won't.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
Here in Canada is the same thing with "rust-proof" protection. It's another $600 and get this, you are covered for 7 years, anything after that if "out of warranty", ANY car without this rust-proof coating can last 7 years with no rust easily, it's a scam.


BK3

join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T Yahoo
said by Xstar_Lumini:

Here in Canada is the same thing with "rust-proof" protection. It's another $600 and get this, you are covered for 7 years, anything after that if "out of warranty", ANY car without this rust-proof coating can last 7 years with no rust easily, it's a scam.

When i bought my last new car, Rustproofing was available. When the dealer asked me if I wanted it, I asked to look over the warranty. The warranty said that the warranty was void in any state that used salt on the roads. Being in Illinois, IDOT uses tons of salt every year. So, if I had gotten the rustproofing, there would have been no warranty.

Vehicle is nearly 14 years old now, no rust issues.
--
Gun control is being able to hit your target.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
said by BK3:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Here in Canada is the same thing with "rust-proof" protection. It's another $600 and get this, you are covered for 7 years, anything after that if "out of warranty", ANY car without this rust-proof coating can last 7 years with no rust easily, it's a scam.

When i bought my last new car, Rustproofing was available. When the dealer asked me if I wanted it, I asked to look over the warranty. The warranty said that the warranty was void in any state that used salt on the roads. Being in Illinois, IDOT uses tons of salt every year. So, if I had gotten the rustproofing, there would have been no warranty.

Vehicle is nearly 14 years old now, no rust issues.

Hahaha c'mon are you serious?


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
My BMW is 12 years old - got some rust about 2 years ago... I bought it 2 years ago. Just have to have a bit of luck and clean the underside of the car well...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


rjackal
Premium
join:2002-07-09
Plymouth, MI

1 recommendation

reply to Xstar_Lumini
Car dealerships sell overpriced options which are often useless? You don't say.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

From another (canadian) automotive car forum;

There's this "feature" that car dealerships are selling when you buy a new car which it's from Globali, it's an option that apparently gets an ID number printed in every vital car part in that vehicle with an invinsible ink that can only be seen under an ultra-violet light. Now here's why it's useless.

If your vehicle gets stolen and chopped up who is going to watch for these prints? Neither cops nor junkyards know about this nor do they have the black lamps to see them and why would they spend their own time and money to check them? What database will they use to check if it's stolen? They don't have one!

Another let-down is that thieves can buy these black lamps anywhere and look for the print and then it only takes them 2 minutes of sanding with a piece of sandpaper to erase the print on the car part.

The CBC says it costs the dealership only $70 to have car parts on a vehicle printed with this invisible ink but they turn around and charge 10-fold ($700) car buyers for it.

saw that report, ive seen dealer etching that was useless too, VIN number on the glass and nothing else. My used truck came from its original dealer with Sherlock. I was surprised by how intensive the etching was even the oil pan is engraved. What was funny though, the truck is 8 years old, I got a call last summer from the insurance company about rangers/bseries being stolen in the montreal area. I actually was able to get a rebate on the purchase of a kill switch on an 8 year old vehicle.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Xstar_Lumini
My 99 2WD 2DR Tahoe before I sold it, I would simply pop the fuel relay out, and/or remove the #11 fuse if I was going to park it for awhile.

But yeah...if they wanted it bad enough, they could tow or trailer it if they really wanted.


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Lurch77
said by Lurch77:

For example, gas thieves will hopefully skip your car if it has a locking cap and the car right next to it does not.

There's a lot of stories out there about gas thieves drilling holes and draining fuel tanks now days.

That's why I don't run a locking cap any more. Replacing a fuel tank isn't fun.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
reply to Ghastlyone
I used to do that back in the day with my old sunbird... in the 90s J-bodies were quite stolen in quebec

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to Xstar_Lumini
up at the high end cars, some of the most professional of thieves actually bring an ECU along for what they intend to steal. basically if they can get the hood open they can even get around the code locked keys.

And then there was the post here on this site to a story from Europe where people have been able to recode BMW transponder keys without the original key being in the car and that lets them simply drive off as if they owned it.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


BK3

join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL
Reviews:
·AT&T Yahoo
reply to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

said by BK3:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Here in Canada is the same thing with "rust-proof" protection. It's another $600 and get this, you are covered for 7 years, anything after that if "out of warranty", ANY car without this rust-proof coating can last 7 years with no rust easily, it's a scam.

When i bought my last new car, Rustproofing was available. When the dealer asked me if I wanted it, I asked to look over the warranty. The warranty said that the warranty was void in any state that used salt on the roads. Being in Illinois, IDOT uses tons of salt every year. So, if I had gotten the rustproofing, there would have been no warranty.

Vehicle is nearly 14 years old now, no rust issues.

Hahaha c'mon are you serious?

Very much serious.
Just as an aside, that dealer is now out of business.
--
Gun control is being able to hit your target.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
reply to Ghastlyone
said by Ghastlyone:

My 99 2WD 2DR Tahoe before I sold it, I would simply pop the fuel relay out, and/or remove the #11 fuse if I was going to park it for awhile.

But yeah...if they wanted it bad enough, they could tow or trailer it if they really wanted.

I have a Sonoma truck and I have a great anti-theft deterrent too, I just remove this small black spark-plug hose from the engine and shove it in my backpocket, thieves will never turn it on without that, unless they carry a spare one.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
said by Xstar_Lumini:

said by Ghastlyone:

My 99 2WD 2DR Tahoe before I sold it, I would simply pop the fuel relay out, and/or remove the #11 fuse if I was going to park it for awhile.

But yeah...if they wanted it bad enough, they could tow or trailer it if they really wanted.

I have a Sonoma truck and I have a great anti-theft deterrent too, I just remove this small black spark-plug hose from the engine and shove it in my backpocket, thieves will never turn it on without that, unless they carry a spare one.

fords with the separate starter relay on the fender are great for that too, just disconnect the signal wire.


EGeezer
zichrona livracha
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Midwest
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to Xstar_Lumini
Having a 23 year old van that's rusted out and has 216,000 miles on it also deters thefts. I can park it in a lot and nobody will even park next to it,let alone steal it.
--
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens to suck you out of your car.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
Some old S##tboxes are stolen just because someone needed a ride and missed the last bus.

In a situation like this, a new car with an immobilizer will be ignored, and an old van like yours will become a first choice.
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
said by Cho Baka:

Some old S##tboxes are stolen just because someone needed a ride and missed the last bus.

In a situation like this, a new car with an immobilizer will be ignored, and an old van like yours will become a first choice.

up here at one point it was any older GM basically simply because of gm's parts commonality between brands AND body styles


Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to Cho Baka
said by Cho Baka:

Some old S##tboxes are stolen just because someone needed a ride and missed the last bus.

In a situation like this, a new car with an immobilizer will be ignored, and an old van like yours will become a first choice.

10 year old hondas and toyota's are todays choice since they can be started with a filed down key. Filed down key = master key for older cars . this is due to the wear on the cylinder and pins.

Even the local news channel was freely giving out this info.


Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
25 years old, maybe - and it definitely isn't limited to any brand.
(remembers my old Ford...)

Otherwise it is just an urban legend being regurgitated as news.

My point was that the theft of opportunity of a more conventional smashed ignition lock and hotwire is NOT possible on an immobilizer equipped vehicle.

--
The talented hawk speaks French.

telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06
said by Cho Baka:

25 years old, maybe - and it definitely isn't limited to any brand.
(remembers my old Ford...)

Otherwise it is just an urban legend being regurgitated as news.

My point was that the theft of opportunity of a more conventional smashed ignition lock and hotwire is NOT possible on an immobilizer equipped vehicle.

yeah GM PK3 is so good that many people wish it could be disabled!


Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

And then there was the post here on this site to a story from Europe where people have been able to recode BMW transponder keys without the original key being in the car and that lets them simply drive off as if they owned it.

The keyless fobs are the one easy to steal:

Keyless BMW cars prove to be very easy to steal
»hackaday.com/2012/07/07/keyless-···o-steal/

One of the Repo shows had a BMW key coded while in the car without the original key present. It took under an hour to program the new key with a laptop and the locksmith's programming tool.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
you would think they would have set something so that to encode a new key you would have to enter a PIN on the radio buttons or something. That way even with access to the car itself and the ODB port it would still be impossible to encode a key without authorization.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS
said by Kearnstd:

you would think they would have set something so that to encode a new key you would have to enter a PIN on the radio buttons or something. That way even with access to the car itself and the ODB port it would still be impossible to encode a key without authorization.

A friend that's a Volvo tech was telling me about the keyless fob programming process. Apparently you need the existing key to determine some kind of number, program that into the computer, connect the computer to the ECM, and set the new key to register with the vehicle. There is lots of room for minor errors, like changing the HUD language.