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ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
reply to McBane

Re: New Verizon FiOS service (need info on equipment/MoCA)

Antique? How about my xm301, avatek 1200hc, or avatek 2400

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD

1 edit
reply to More Fiber
So, the only tangible benefit of a ECB2500C is effectively the inclusion of a semi-active splitter, which would lessen the signal drop of a passive splitter?

In all cases, whether I have a moca Tivo or Non-Moca Tivo, I would provide Ethernet to the Tivo from the switch connected to the moca adapter. Does this sound like a wise arrangement? It's what I want to do, but I am open to learning its shortcomings.

Under Verizon's typical wiring scheme, if Ethernet is run from the ONT to the Actiontek WAN port, *how* does a Moca signal get introduced into the coaxial wiring? I wish there were some good diagrams I could see.

Also, if I go with the Actiontek router (retaining the Moca lan bridging capability built into the router) I have a high powered Engenius that I could run as an access point. »www.engeniustech.com/business-ne ··· b350-new
If I disable the antenna in the Actiontek, does this sound like a wise move?


birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9
said by ddanckaert:

Under Verizon's typical wiring scheme, if Ethernet is run from the ONT to the Actiontek WAN port, *how* does a Moca signal get introduced into the coaxial wiring? I wish there were some good diagrams I could see.

I have an ONT that cannot provide WAN data through MoCA. In this scenario, Actiontec is hooked up to ONT via ethernet for WAN connection. In order to provide LAN data to STB via MoCA, Actiontec is also hooked up to the coax.

My hookup is ONT via ethernet to primary router for WAN connection. Actiontec is secondary via ethernet off primary. Actiontec MoCA LAN would be connected via coax to STB.

My primary must be ethernet from ONT as previously described. It's not the Actiontec because I like dd-wrt and N-wireless better, certainly more than on-screen caller id and remote access to DVR.

If someone wants that FiOS equipment function (neither you nor I do since you're planning on TiVo and I have Moxi DVR), then the best solution is to have the Actiontec as primary.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32

1 recommendation

reply to ddanckaert
said by ddanckaert:

So, the only tangible benefit of a ECB2500C is effectively the inclusion of a semi-active splitter, which would lessen the signal drop of a passive splitter?

I don't know how the TV OUT connection's signal level compares with using an external splitter. Since a 1x2 splitter only introduces a 3.5db signal drop, I wouldn't worry about it one way or another. Personally, I would go with the ECB2500C and avoid the external splitter.

The reason that I mention that it doesn't pass MOCA signals is that some Tivos (series 4?) are MOCA capable. If you were to upgrade your Tivo, it would probably be cleaner (one less cable) to use the built-in MOCA support rather than running coax + cat5, but since you'll have a switch there anyway so it won't matter much.
said by ddanckaert:

Under Verizon's typical wiring scheme, if Ethernet is run from the ONT to the Actiontek WAN port, *how* does a Moca signal get introduced into the coaxial wiring?

VZ's typical wiring scheme is coax from the ONT to the main splitter and then coax from the main splitter to the Actiontec. VZ does NOT run cat5 from the ONT to the Actiontec in their standard install. However, they WILL run cat5 if you're on a 100Mbps+ tier. You can also explicitly request that the tech provision your WAN connection over cat5. The tech is under no obligation to do so, but if it's no more work for him and you ask politely, you're likely to get it. If not, you can always run the cat5 yourself.

The Actiontec has a single coax connector which is connected to the main splitter. This provides for the MOCA LAN signal path and the MOCA WAN signal path (if used).

said by ddanckaert:

Also, if I go with the Actiontek router (retaining the Moca lan bridging capability built into the router) I have a high powered Engenius that I could run as an access point. »www.engeniustech.com/business-ne ··· b350-new
If I disable the antenna in the Actiontek, does this sound like a wise move?

That's commonly done.

Another option is to set the Actiontec for G only mode and set the engenius for N only (on different channels). That way, if you have any G only devices, they don't slow down the N devices. Otherwise, the N router's speed will only be as fast as the slowest G device.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
»www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Ve ··· n_Router

Does this article appear correct regarding provisioning internet access through the Actiontec wan port? Thanks


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
That link only addresses replacing the the Actiontec with a DD-WRT router. Not sure what you mean by "provisioning internet access through the Actiontec wan port". Once you've followed the instructions in that link, the Actiontec will be disconnected.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
kudos:9
reply to ddanckaert
said by ddanckaert:

Does this article appear correct regarding provisioning internet access through the Actiontec wan port? Thanks

Yes, VZ tech support has to make the change from coax provisioning to ethernet. Sometimes you can get someone who knows how to do it, sometimes you get someone who thinks you need a truck roll.

Do not accept a truck roll.

If at first you don't get a capable tech, give it some time then try again. You may luck out. If you get the same one again, try something different.

Some folks have met with success with a chat rep, others with phone tech, others with VZDirect forum post.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
reply to ddanckaert
I want to thank everyone for their contributions and information. I also want to make sure that I understand what's been said. I put together a simple diagram, available as a PDF or Visio. Please let me know if I've got it, or where I went astray. Thanks

Diagram (PDF)
»www.dropbox.com/s/iuadkbiz403r9t ··· v1.0.pdf

Diagram (Visio)
»www.dropbox.com/s/wzdivmn5dry60j ··· v1.0.vsd


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
You can't daisy chain the ECB2500Cs.

As I stated earlier, the ECB2500Cs won't pass MOCA signals on the TV out connection. Therefore, the ECB2500Cs connected to the Tivos won't receive MOCA LAN signals.

As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the CABLE IN port of all three ECB2500s and the ONT must be connected together.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD

2 edits
ok, I updated the diagrams. Is it correct? I modified the left Tivo in the diagram to illustrate the difference in connectivity.

I have a big order to place with Tivo for a Tivo Premiere XL4, four ECB2500C, two Tivo Minis, and a POE filter (if needed).

I really want to get confirmation that the connection will work before I place the order. Moving is expensive enough without making mistakes on purchases.

I have Fios scheduled to come on Friday, so I need to know that this arrangement will work. The area I circled and the two callout comments are what I'm still not certain about.

Thanks


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
That looks better. I don't see any issues.

No need for a POE filter. The ONT doesn't see the MOCA LAN frequency.

Yes, the connection from the splitter to the top ECB2500C is MOCA LAN with video even though the video signal isn't used.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
Ok, thanks a lot for the guidance. Friday will be a key opportunity to test this. Hopefully this diagram will help clarify things for the Fios technician who may never have done this kind of arrangement.

On the diagram, I just updated it to include an actual Moca Tivo graphic on the left, as well as a Moca Tivo Mini.

If you or anyone else want to use this graphic, the PDF and the source Visio file are on the dropbox link above. It makes so much more sense to me to put it together graphically.

My Tivo XL4 and 4 ECB2500C adapters are on order. I bought the adapters for $49 each directly from Tivo.

marc3565

join:2009-10-08
kudos:1
said by ddanckaert:

.... Hopefully this diagram will help clarify things for the Fios technician who may never have done this kind of arrangement. ...

The vast majority of your diagram is your internal network and wiring. As you are only paying verizon for Internet the FIOS tech will only get the router connected.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to ddanckaert
Keep in mind that the tech may want to install the Actiontec to verify that everything is working with VZ equipment. What you do after that is up to you.

Some techs are comfortable installing other routers, some are not.

said by ddanckaert:

My Tivo XL4 and 4 ECB2500C adapters are on order.

I hope you got the special prices offered here:
»www3.tivo.com/promo/april2013/in ··· 055&tsn=

--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
reply to marc3565
said by marc3565:

As you are only paying verizon for Internet the FIOS tech will only get the router connected.

The OP is also getting FIOS-TV. The tech is obligated to get a video signal to the Tivos.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
On my order, I specified qty 0 for the two router options offered. It will be interesting if they still supply and configure an Actiontec router.

Note: my schematic is a conceptual illustration, not my actual.

On the ECB2500C, is there a benefit to upgrading the firmeware, selecting a particular frequency, and setting an encryption key (to be applied to all units and confirmed before the tech arrives)?

Thanks

jh2010

join:2009-09-03
Brooklyn, NY
reply to ddanckaert
Dont't forget that the Tivo 4 XL comes with built in MOCA Bridge. It bridges the Coax and Ethernet ports. I am not sure you would need another MOCA Bridge,

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
It all depends whether I have other Ethernet devices co-located. If I do, then I will need to supply network access via Ethernet via a switch connected to the MoCA adapter. The main thing for this Friday is to get Internet access provisioned over Ethernet and getting the cable cards paired with my Tivos and working on my account.

Until it is, I'm going to jury rig a 4G MiFi to an Airport Express connected to a an Ethernet switch. That will enable me to update the Tivos and get them ready in advance of the FiOS technician.

The only open question in my mind is whether I should leave the ECB2500C MoCA adapters at their default setting, or to configure them with an encryption key and specify a specific d-band channel...


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
said by ddanckaert:

The only open question in my mind is whether I should leave the ECB2500C MoCA adapters at their default setting, or to configure them with an encryption key and specify a specific d-band channel...

I believe the ECB2500s come with a default encryption key. No need to change it as your coax network is private.

The default channel should be D1. No need to change that either. The ECB2500s should work just fine right out of the box.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

jh2010

join:2009-09-03
Brooklyn, NY

1 edit
reply to ddanckaert
I have a ECB2200 matched to an ebay Actiontec Router Rev F in my living room. The Actiontec Router provides WIFI and an Ethernet switch in the living room(Live in an APT) for PS3, Laptop(Skype) and soon a TV. Am upgrading to a Ref I router for gig switch and 802.11N. It is nice to have it all in one box(Switch, Moca and WIFI). I have been running this setup for a year on TWC. I do run encryption as I haven't added a POE block. Good luck.

ddanckaert

join:2004-02-14
Gaithersburg, MD
reply to More Fiber
Thanks.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5

3 edits
reply to More Fiber
said by More Fiber:

said by ddanckaert:

Can I connect an 8 port switch to the Moca adapters in these rooms?

Yes.

If you only need 4 ports, you might consider picking up a used Actiontec on eBay for $20. That will provide a MOCA bridge and 4 port switch in a single unit.

What about the use of a Master Channel CM-6004 4 Port Switch?
said by More Fiber:

said by ddanckaert:

I don't like the 100Mbps bottleneck on the Moca adapter. What's the point of having a higher sustained data transfer rate if your NIC is slower.

Unfortunately that is a limitation of the MOCA 1.x technology. MOCA 2.0 will raise that limit to 800Mbps, but MOCA 2.0 ECBs are not available yet.

The TiVo's themselves are also going to be a bottleneck because they only have a 100Mbps Ethernet port, and even though the Premiere XL4 has a gigabit Ethernet port, it's built in MoCA is only MoCA version 1.1 also and wouldn't support the higher speeds.--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
reply to ddanckaert
said by ddanckaert:

So, the only tangible benefit of a ECB2500C is effectively the inclusion of a semi-active splitter, which would lessen the signal drop of a passive splitter?

I gotta disagree with your comment about the ECB2500C and it's internal splitter affecting the signal strength. I've done a lot of testing professionally with my installation gear and have not found any detrimental difference between it and a passive drop and a passive coupler.
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
reply to ddanckaert
hey ddanckaert. I placed an order for a few more ECB2500C's for my customers a few days ago and found that if you place the order over the phone they sell the MoCA adapters in 2 pack kits for 89.99 which is cheaper then ordering each one individually.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5

1 edit
reply to More Fiber
More Fiber, the default encryption key in the Actiontec manual is nine 9's and eight 8's but encryption is turned off by default.

Would the MoCA TiVo be able to accept this encryption key or does it have it's own that the Actiontec's would need to use instead?


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:32
Not familiar with the MOCA settings in the Tivo. If they followed the Entropic reference design, there should be a way to set the channel, encryption and encryption key.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
said by More Fiber:

Not familiar with the MOCA settings in the Tivo. If they followed the Entropic reference design, there should be a way to set the channel, encryption and encryption key.

Yes you can set the MoCA channel and also enter the encryption key on the TiVo. The encryption key screen says the key you enter will be either 12 digits or 17 digits.

I don't use encryption with my four TiVos on MoCA. And I let them automatically pick the MoCA channel.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
What would happen if a customer has the Quantum 300/65 speed tier and they are looking for MoCA solutions. Is there any adapters currently on the retail market that would be able to handle this speed? What performance would be expected if MoCA 1.1 adapters were introduced?
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with tech problems.


Zero

join:2009-07-01
Collegeville, PA
That's why Ethernet is required for 150 and 300 speed tiers. MoCA currently can't give that kind of throughput until 2.0 units are out on the market.

See SmallNetBuilder for performance/throughput results with MoCA 1.1 adapters:

»www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/l ··· reviewed

»www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/l ··· reviewed


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:5
What's the status of when we can see MoCA 2.0 devices rolling out to Verizon and retail establishments? So then what happens when a MoCA 1.1 device is put on a network with those speed tiers? I checked those links you posted but they're a few years old featuring models that have been discontinued and don't even use the same chipset. The Actiontec ECB2200 uses an Entropic EN2210 chipset while the Netgear and D-Link use an Entropic EN2510 chipset.
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with tech problems.