 A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON
1 edit | [Serious] The sad face of social media I know bullying has been around forever, and it likely won't be stopped. What I don't get is when it's done electronically - isn't there a trail to follow?
»ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybre···391.html
Oddly enough I see the same type of reasoning used when copyright comes up. Someone takes pictures of a 15-yr old being assaulted and they can't charge anyone because "they couldn’t prove who had pressed the photo button on the phone."
What I don't get is why a school full of kids thought their responses and treatment of this girl were acceptable? I'm sure now that she's dead they'll turn it into her fault and none will consider that they contributed to her desperation.
“People texted her all the time, saying ‘Will you have sex with me?’” she told the Halifax Chronicle Herald. “Girls texting, saying ‘You’re such a slut.’”
ETA: »www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013···ges.html |
|
|
|
 dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | that is the society we have allowed ourselves to transition to...it will get worse. |
|
Reviews:
 ·Cogeco Cable
| said by dirtyjeffer:that is the society we have allowed ourselves to transition to...it will get worse.
It was like this before social media and cell phones, but it's more in the open now than it was before... perhaps this openness was enabled by social media. |
|
dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | i know it existed, but not to the extent it does now...for example, bullying stayed at school, not it is 24/7...the "always connected" scenario, factored in with the anonymity of being online enables the degradation of society...it's a shame really, as it could have the exact opposite effect (which i am sure it does for many people as well). |
|
 milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2 | reply to A Lurker
This isn't just a case of bullying. It also involves the girl being gang-raped by four boys, and having pictures of the assault circulated on social media.
The people who knew her very likely know exactly who the boys are, could have very likely testified to what happened that night, and did absolutely nothing.
Nova Scotia isn't much better than India from my point of view. |
|
dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | that is Sidney Crosby's home town too. |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:It was like this before social media and cell phones, but it's more in the open now than it was before... perhaps this openness was enabled by social media.
I think that's the scary part. Think about this. Four guys supposedly raped this girl and one of them thought it would be a good idea to take pictures? Then share them? We're creating a group of kids who think taking pictures of criminal acts and sharing them is a good idea.
Why, because they get away with it. There are no consequences. dirtyjeffer was right, it will get worse. |
|
| reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:It was like this before social media and cell phones, but it's more in the open now than it was before... perhaps this openness was enabled by social media.
Social media didn't "enable" anything. Parents who refuse to parent did.
People are only too willing to shed and ignore their responsibilities, and that includes parents. It's no surprise really when you see the social trends. |
|
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:i know it existed, but not to the extent it does now... Sure it has, this "always connected" scenario you refer to is what's making us aware of backwater towns or US areas that experience such situations. Go back 30 years and your local CBS affiliate was broadcasting local news at 5:00 with Dan Rather at 6:00 giving us the global news and politics, but nowhere did you hear about what was going on in rural Idaho.
said by dirtyjeffer:factored in with the anonymity of being online enables the degradation of society...
Online anonymity affects forums like here and places like 4chan, but it means sweet-FA as far as change is concerned with teens since they already had anonymity in the form of gossip or 'keep your mouth shut or I'll tell everyone about this'.
Think back before the internet - kids were already connected with phones and gossip then was just as 'next day' as it is today. You did something questionable on Saturday night and you can sure as shit expect that everyone in school will be talking about it on Monday morning, exaggerated to the nth degree.
The solution here has nothing to do with affecting social media or making laws to 'protect the children' and it has everything to do with parenting and educating our parents. Undoubtedly this girls' mother loved her, but there's plenty about this story that could have been handled much better. |
|
Reviews:
 ·callwithus
·Callcentric
| said by urbanriot:said by dirtyjeffer:i know it existed, but not to the extent it does now... Sure it has, this "always connected" scenario you refer to is what's making us aware of backwater towns or US areas that experience such situations. Go back 30 years and your local CBS affiliate was broadcasting local news at 5:00 with Dan Rather at 6:00 giving us the global news and politics, but nowhere did you hear about what was going on in rural Idaho. Whether now or 30 years ago, I don't see that this is an issue limited to one country or another country.
You could just have easily have said Knowlton Nash or Peter Mansbridge of the CBC, rather than Dan Rather of CBS. I don't know what Idaho has to do with this. The US does not go around blaming Manitoba for its own problems.
If you want to compare though, well then in Steubenville, Ohio the police and prosecutors DID bring charges and did get convictions despite community controversy. So that IS different from Halifax where I remain perplexed why the case was not pursued more.
This tragedy was reported yesterday in the New York Daily News. People (in all countries) do care.
And I asked one Canadian member of this forum yesterday why it hadn't been discussed here yet.
-----
Why did the police and Crown not pursue this more? Why are they afraid even now to take a second look? They seem like timid puppies and bureaucrats, not tough cops.
If there is a photo record, what difference does in make who pushed the button? That's only one possible charge among many. That there IS a photo record is the point.
What matters is what happened to the girl, was there additional physical evidence, DNA evidence, etc? Did the boys themselves brag about it, as often happens?
-----
It seems to me that Halifax remains a small town in the best AND the worst of ways.
Too bad that this girl could not escape to another place in Canada, stay off the internet and FB for a couple of years, change her cellphone number, ditch her old "friends" who turned out to be so evil anyway, keep her new location secret. Too bad she had no family out-of-province that she could have gone to. RIP. |
|
 HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:19
 ·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
| reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:Social media didn't "enable" anything. Parents who refuse to parent did.
People are only too willing to shed and ignore their responsibilities, and that includes parents. It's no surprise really when you see the social trends.
It's tough to control what your kids do online or on their phones at all times... And if you limit their social media too much, they will be shunned by their friends, and end up outcasts..
Sad, but true.. And i despise social networks.
--
|
|
 vue666Small block Chevys never diePremium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1 | reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:that is the society we have allowed ourselves to transition to...it will get worse.
Bang on Hoss... and as technology evolves people must be held more accountable for their actions...
Kids who commit horrendous crimes must face the consequences of their actions and be charged as adults...
And when we turn a blind eye to crap like this are we really any better than India? I think NOT... |
|
| reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:It's tough to control what your kids do online or on their phones at all times... And if you limit their social media too much, they will be shunned by their friends, and end up outcasts..
Sad, but true.. And i despise social networks.
...and who said parenting was supposed to be easy? It's no reason to give up and turn away from one's responsibilities. |
|
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to Gershom 1624
said by Gershom 1624:Whether now or 30 years ago, I don't see that this is an issue limited to one country or another country. Unfortunately a Boeing 747-8 flew over your head...
But you do encourage me to suggest another point, that rape is not a new phenomena in Canada because of social media. "Oh no, Facebook has introduced rape to Canada!!! We need to ban Facebook as it will put an end to rape!!" |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON
1 recommendation | reply to IamGimli
said by IamGimli:...and who said parenting was supposed to be easy? It's no reason to give up and turn away from one's responsibilities. No, but I'd guess that changing costs make it harder. When I grew up, we had one TV. It was in the family room, and I pretty much had to watch what my dad wanted. I likely had control between say 4pm and 5pm, that was it.
We had no computer.
We did have phones, but there was one in the family room, one in the kitchen, that was it. In other words, my parents could see or hear me most of the time if they wanted to. There was no phone in my room. Oh, and no portable ones either at that point. If I'd been talking about some girl getting raped, or even being a slut on the phone, there's no doubt that would have been addressed in my home. (My dad came from an abusive home, so it was talking to in my house... which often felt worse.)
With the advent of cheap technology it does appear that parents have given up controlling their kids. When computers were expensive, the idea of having one in the house, in a central location was easy to envision. If I'd grown up at that point there's no way I would have been allowed one in my room.
How many kids have phones, tv, laptop, smart phones of their own. It means that parents have little control or even knowledge of what their kids are doing. And please don't talk about trust, as we all know we shouldn't trust most (if not all) teens, as they have little to no judgement. |
|
dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | bingo...instead of raising your kids, letting them play outside, etc, too many parents simply allow them to fend for themselves on electronic gizmos (phones, tablets, computers)...this also leaves them ill prepared to deal with "real life" matters (ex, socially awkward). |
|
 SteveI know your IP addressConsultant
join:2001-03-10
Yorba Linda, CA
kudos:5 | reply to HiVolt
said by HiVolt: And if you limit their social media too much, they will be shunned by their friends, and end up outcasts.. In practice this is mostly not the case; if you limit their online activity too much, they take it underground where you have no visibility into their actions.
Many parents who care very deeply for their children are faced with a difficult tradeoff of tolerance versus control, and there is no tradeoff that's a clear winner. |
|
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to A Lurker
That's the problem here. You're comparing 'society today' to how you were raised. Rape and gossip still existed 'back then' as well... rape and gossip have always existed, as long as humans have existed.
The major differences between now and then is not social media, it's that more women come forth with their sexual assaults and we now have access to more information that's local to an area that's not our own, so we hear more about it now than we did then.
Facebook didn't encourage these men to rape this girl; booze, an easy target, hormones and bad values did. |
|
vue666Small block Chevys never diePremium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1 | reply to A Lurker
The web community is calling on online hacker/vigilante group Anonymous to act.
Twitter users who self-identify as belonging to the hacker group are saying thy will attempt to identify the criminals in the photo...
»www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/10···495.html |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:That's the problem here. You're comparing 'society today' to how you were raised. Rape and gossip still existed 'back then' as well... rape and gossip have always existed, as long as humans have existed. Maybe I grew up in one of the better towns (but I doubt it). Most of what I would class as rape was what is now called 'date rape'. Simply guys who wouldn't take no for an answer. In pretty much every case I knew about the girls supported each other and the guys in question stopped getting dates. Also, I seem to think if a photo shop was asked to develop any pictures that the cops would have been involved. This was to some extent the point about changing technology. If you wanted to take rape photos 30+ years ago you would have needed a dark room.
Oh, and the 'handsy' teacher in grade 8 didn't last very long. He was suddenly gone and replaced by a substitute. Again, the girls knew very quickly to avoid him, and obviously at least one or two adults knew about it. |
|
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| said by A Lurker:Maybe I grew up in one of the better towns (but I doubt it). And how many rapes happen in this same town today? |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | said by urbanriot:And how many rapes happen in this same town today? 5 year averages:
160 sex offences /yr
2 murders / yr
2 attempted murders / yr
966 assaults / yr
Actually pretty impressed the figures are so easily available on the city police website. |
|
dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | how does that compare with "back then"? |
|
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
| reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:Actually pretty impressed the figures are so easily available on the city police website.
What's your feeling though, of how things are today? Does it feel the same as it felt then? Were women as forthcoming with rape then, as they are now?
Rape was pretty much a 'keep your mouth shut' situation until around the 90's. Rape kits weren't around until the late 90's and even then, it wasn't federal. |
|
Reviews:
·TELUS
| reply to A Lurker
Know whats funny back int he days when i was younger and frequented online forums and social sites I myself would get harassed and bullied by people who didnt agree with things myself and other agreed on. it would follow me from site to site but I didn't let it get me down I just used the block function or report to mods.
What is it about todays social media that people must take it s seriously like social media is preventing someone from living a normal life or something.
People need to learn to disconnect from facebook and learn to use privacy settings.
yes it is Sad what happened to this girl and I hope who ever is responsible is brought to justice to explain their actions and face the consequences. |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | reply to dirtyjeffer
said by dirtyjeffer:how does that compare with "back then"? Kind of missing the point. Not sure what the historical stats are, however, we weren't passing around pictures of any victims. |
|
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btwPremium
join:2007-10-27
Burlington, ON | reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:What's your feeling though, of how things are today? Does it feel the same as it felt then? Were women as forthcoming with rape then, as they are now?
Rape was pretty much a 'keep your mouth shut' situation until around the 90's. Rape kits weren't around until the late 90's and even then, it wasn't federal.
Oh I agree, but as I said in my previous post, we weren't passing around pictures of victims. I agree, gossip was somewhat rampant, but I don't remember the 'oh my god she's such a slut because she got raped' said to victims. As I said already, there were definitely date rapes, but I don't ever remember the girls being harassed over it. The guys tended to end up (as I said) date-less as word spread. That to me tells me that people believed the girls.
I knew one or two victims of family sexual assault. Both came forward in high school (although the assaults happened earlier). It wasn't a perfect town by any means.
(Actually looking at the stats for where I lived then and where I live now.... roughly double the population, less than half the offences.) |
|
dirtyjefferAnons on ignore, but not due to fear.Premium
join:2002-02-21
London, ON | reply to A Lurker
just curious more than anything...i don't know what the "stats" for London are, but it sure has gone downhill around here the past decade...something is going on out there and its too bad, because this used to be a great place to live (it's just average now). |
|
HiVoltPremium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:19 Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
| said by dirtyjeffer:just curious more than anything...i don't know what the "stats" for London are, but it sure has gone downhill around here the past decade...something is going on out there and its too bad, because this used to be a great place to live (it's just average now).
»police.city.london.on.ca/d.aspx?···tics.htm
--
|
|
| reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot: Rape kits weren't around until the late 90's and even then, it wasn't federal.
Rape and now Sexual Assault has always been a Federal Crime, enacted within the Criminal Code of Canada. Rape Kits have been around since at least 1975 when I conducted my first investigation. |
|
