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phily316

join:2006-01-31
Montreal, QC

Pair bonding coming soon?

I saw an internal job posting at BTS asking technicians who are interested to acquire the skills for the pair bonding market. Anyone got info on the deployment of this market?

FYI, pair bonding uses two pairs of wire from the JWI to the modem to increase the capacity of the line on FTTN. It will extend the services 25, 50 and 75 Mbps and create the capacity of 100 Mbps on FTTN.


Martin
Premium
join:2005-05-05
@bell.ca
kudos:3
Ce sera uniquement pour l'instant dans la région de Montréal où il y a pas de plan pour déployé la FTTH à court et moyen terme.

BigWater

join:2002-11-20
Sherbrooke, QC
reply to phily316
Does it also allow higher upload?

Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
There is also vectoring that will help to go more than 100mbps.


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:11
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to BigWater
said by BigWater:

Does it also allow higher upload?

Yes it should allow for higher upload speeds.
--
Opinions expressed are my own, and may or may not reflect those of my employers or any other BCE company or division.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
With bonding and vectoring Bell would have no problem pushing tiers upwards of 150 - 200 Mbps.


Glen1
These Are The Good Ol' Days.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe

1 edit
reply to phily316
It really is just a "stop gap" measure to allow higher speeds until fiber is readily available...hopefully it can be used where some customers only get 3 meg and really need 6 or more and better upload speeds also. It is referred to as "port" bonding where two ports are used with 2 pairs to the site and a special device is placed in front of the Sagemcom modem to provide the bonded service.
--
My Canada includes Quebec.
Disclaimer: If I express an opinion, it is my own opinion, not that of Bell or its related companies.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

With bonding and vectoring Bell would have no problem pushing tiers upwards of 150 - 200 Mbps.

Assuming a certain distance from the remote and availability of ports.


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
They can only do this on 7330

The old Ikanos chipsets the Stinger's use don't support this feature

And there are thousands of Stinger's already deployed

Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
There's a lot of places though that got a 7330 where a stinger is.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to Glen1
said by Glen1:

It really is just a "stop gap" measure to allow higher speeds until fiber is readily available...hopefully it can be used where some customers only get 3 meg and really need 6 or more and better upload speeds also. It is referred to as "port" bonding where two ports are used with 2 pairs to the site and a special device is placed in front of the Sagemcom modem to provide the bonded service.

It is but FTTH won't come fast enough. They're already behind the curve and need higher speed tiers yesterday not 2-3 years from now if you're lucky. These are options they can utilize now. Also a special device is not put in front of the modem. The modem itself does the bonding.


humanfilth

join:2013-02-14
cyber gutter
reply to phily316
Zyxel line bonding gateway. Also got all the bells and whistles too.

broadcom chipset me thinks.

»www.zyxel.com/us/en/products_ser···html?t=p

Telus will officially start loop bonding for 50Mbps(longer run to the dslam capabilities with loop bonding) by end of April.


Glen1
These Are The Good Ol' Days.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-24
GTA Canada
kudos:8
reply to 34764170
A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
said by Glen1:

A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

What you said makes no sense. The Sagemcom is the modem. The modem does the bonding.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by 34764170:

said by Glen1:

A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

What you said makes no sense. The Sagemcom is the modem. The modem does the bonding.

It does make sense if the Sagemcom 2864 is only used for PPoE authentication and TR-069 management. Remember that it currently has an unused WAN Ethernet port.

Not certain why Bell would choose this because it introduces yet another device to manage. Nothing prevents his proposed solution from a technology point of view.

EDIT: What is the status of the proposed bonding implementations? If they are draft it may be a reason to use an external device. Remember the CellPipe fiasco?

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

said by Glen1:

A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

What you said makes no sense. The Sagemcom is the modem. The modem does the bonding.

Actually it could work the way Glen has described. brad, you may be forgetting about the WAN Ethernet port on the sagemcom. You could have a dual rj11 port device that does the bonding, with a single Ethernet out port which would feed the WAN port on the sagemcom. Essentially a bridging device. The sagemcom would do the authentication
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to QuantumPimp
Unused if your on dsl. Very much used if your FTTH. Basically all I'm saying for those that don't know, is that the sagemcom firmware already allows for it's Ethernet port to be set as the wan interface.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by urbang33k:

Unused if your on dsl. Very much used if your FTTH. Basically all I'm saying for those that don't know, is that the sagemcom firmware already allows for it's Ethernet port to be set as the wan interface.

Good point with FTTH. So Bell already has a solution where an external device terminates the line, and the Sagemcom provides authentication, management, and application / gateway features. As an OpenRG device that's exactly what you would expect from it.


BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
reply to urbang33k
Many have been asking for just a simple bridge device. This should satisfy them. Is there a way of getting one with a single pair, no bonding?

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
said by BliZZardX:

Many have been asking for just a simple bridge device. This should satisfy them. Is there a way of getting one with a single pair, no bonding?

Great question. Remember this is all speculation until we see one in action. It's not been rolled out in my area yet. I've heard no official word from anyone that pair-bonding is coming.

I would assume that the device would allow for redundancy. sort of like fail-over. Why would you allow the service to stop working if only one of the two links went down???

If it functioned THAT way, it would be plausible to use it as a true bridge on a single link for a cpe router. Again all speculation on my part. theory-crafting.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

1 edit
reply to QuantumPimp
said by QuantumPimp:

said by 34764170:

said by Glen1:

A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

What you said makes no sense. The Sagemcom is the modem. The modem does the bonding.

It does make sense if the Sagemcom 2864 is only used for PPoE authentication and TR-069 management. Remember that it currently has an unused WAN Ethernet port.

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
said by 34764170:

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

Although I have not heard anything official. I have heard from a coupled of unrelated and independent sources within Bell, that it's being trialed. Unfortunately no one has any details.

Not to mention, the 7330 supports this natively, so the technology is already there in a lot of cases.

»www3.alcatel-lucent.com/products···dex.html
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to 34764170
said by 34764170:

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

Knowing the two device solution is very similar to the wide scale production roll out for FTTH makes it possible for FTTN too IMHO.

VDSL bonding is all about supporting multiple HDTV streams into the home. Deploying just for internet is a non sequitur. There are less restrictive alternatives like MLPPP for that use case. So whatever path is chosen must support all of Bells intended applications. I assume support for third party VDSL bonding internet-only modems would be a low priority. Just speculating. I have no real facts.

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
well, as long as we can all agree that this is just speculative banter, until we hear or see something official from Bell...

I'd argue that the 50/10 package could obviously be sold to more customers with vdsl bonding.

I'd also bet that if they rolled out that pair bonding technology you'd see some packages offered that bridged the gap between 50/10 and 175/175 packages offered.

I don't understand what your getting at with: 'support for third party VDSL bonding internet-only modems would be a low priority'.

Who says Bell would have to support a third-party modem? They never have in the past. They'd source a pair-bonding vdsl2 ethernet bridge device, make it part of the mandatory rented hardware for their internet and only support THAT setup. Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Unless I mis-understand what your getting at.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.

Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
Click for full size
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It must be ready since it's planned for 2013.

urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to phily316
Well there it is.

While these pics are specifying IPTV deployment, I would be very surprised if they didn't offer it for internet only also.
Why not right? The technology is obviously going to be deployed judging by those slides. Why not use it for everything it's capable of.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to urbang33k
Yes, this thread is just for entertainment. I assume no one here is a Bell product manager.
said by 34764170:

If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

said by urbang33k:

Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Yes, they have supported third party modems in the wholesale internet market as was the context for the discussion. My point is that support for third party VDSL bonding modems would be very low on the priority list because it's an internet only solution primarily used as a product feature in the wholesale market. Support of these devices does not help Bell sell HDTV services.

Zyzomys

join:2008-05-23
Cantley, QC
reply to urbang33k
said by urbang33k :

Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Under PC Care, Bell clearly states that it will assist with the set up of customers' own routers.

quote:
Hardware

The representative will help you install, configure, troubleshoot and coach you on the following equipment:

Wired and wireless networking
Desktop & laptop computers
Tablets
Video/sound cards
Printers
USB devices
MP3 players

Gaming consoles: PlayStation 2, Xbox, Xbox 360
Hubs
Digital cameras
Monitors
Scanners
CD/DVD drivers
Routers (Linksys, DLink, Net Gear, Microsoft, others)



yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to phily316
Considering Bell has no plans to deploy FTTH in existing areas where the infrastructure is buried, they need pair bonding and any other technologies that come along to milk copper for as long as they can in order to keep up with DOCSIS.

34764170

join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON
reply to urbang33k
said by urbang33k:

Although I have not heard anything official. I have heard from a coupled of unrelated and independent sources within Bell, that it's being trialed. Unfortunately no one has any details.

Not to mention, the 7330 supports this natively, so the technology is already there in a lot of cases.

»www3.alcatel-lucent.com/products···dex.html

Whether it is being trialed or not is not the issue. I know the equipment Bell is using is very much capable of supporting both bonding and vectoring. Bell utilizing the technology is not really surprising either. It makes sense as they require faster speed tiers and this is the only option they have that is available right this very moment.