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moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
reply to gatorkram

Re: [Rant] bandwidth metering turned back on?

Gator, that's not the whole scam. You forgot to point out that the entire industry has people actually believing that caps are there to help serve the customer

adamg

join:2013-03-01
Paterson, NJ

1 edit
reply to lwaster
Ok it's clear that some of us are arguing about 2 different things here.

I'm going to clarify my position a little better. It's not necessarily that I have a problem with putting some sort of cap in place, my problem is the caps that they decided on. Sure, no one wants some jerk maxing out his 30 meg connection 24/7, that's not good for anybody, and no one should expect an ISP to be able to support everyone doing that.

These caps however, are clearly not there to prevent that type of behavior. They are there to stifle future innovation, and profit off of anyone who dare try anything cutting edge.

I know some of you Joe Tech-Savvy's think you're burning through bandwidth like nobody's business because your kid plays Call of Duty, and your wife browses Pintrest on her iPad while you watch medium quality netflix, and that it's unfathomable that someone could be using more than the 40 gigs of bandwidth you use a month, without being part of a botnet or running bittorrent 24/7. But let me tell you right now, you don't have a CLUE.

I'll use an example from what I'm doing right this very moment. I recently bought the Skyfall blu-ray, and also purchased Crysis 3 through Origin. Skyfall (and most new blu-rays) come with a redeemable code that allows you to download a perfectly legitimate 1080p copy of the movie. Origin, is a content delivery system similar to Steam. Crysis 3 is 14 gigs, and the Skyfall ultraviolet copy is about 9 gigs. I'll even give you a picture.

»i.imgur.com/v2dEJlD.png

Bam. Just like that. 23 gigs. It won't even take me an hour. What I'm doing is perfectly legitimate. I buy 2-3 games a month on average, some of them are even bigger than this one. I buy blu-rays pretty regularly too, and I have an HTPC with a collection of ultraviolet copies.

THIS is where the internet is heading. It has been headed this direction for a long time. Steam existed years before Suddenlink was even a company. Steam is the primary way that people purchase PC games nowdays. This didn't come out of nowhere and blind-side ISP's, Steam has been around for a long while.

I'm not asking for a Terabyte cap here, but 350 gigs on their 100 dollar top of the line connection? It's a freaking joke! Who the hell do they think is buying this thing? I could maybe stomach 500-600 gigs, not that I'd even use that much most months (I don't think so anyway, but I'm not going to babysit my roommates), but that's the point. I shouldn't have to be watching my bandwidth like a hawk, when what I use it for is perfectly legitimate, AND im buying the most expensive connection! On top of that, most of my usage is after mid-night anyway when hardly anyone is even using it. I also don't allow my roommates to use bittorent. That's the one rule that I have.

Sure I might be a "1 percenter" or whatever, but I can tell you another 1% category that I'm in, and that's people willing to pay for a 107 meg internet connection.


ScooterTejas

@cebridge.net
reply to gatorkram
said by gatorkram:

The thing is this... If I do want to use my connection full speed 24/7 and I pay for the overages, it doesn't make the burden on the network any less. In fact it does nothing at all, well, except make the company more money. So the logical conclusion is the limits and overages are designed to discourage you from using the network more than they think you should be.

You are getting close...."make the company more money" = ability to spend money on network upgrades to accommodate people like you who want to "use my connection full speed 24/7", so the rest of us don't suffer. Everyone is happy in that scenario. You pay for the right to be a pig and the other 99% don't suffer.

You folks seem to think ISPs are cash cows. Mention that to Paul Allen, or the failed, debt laden ISPs bought for pennies on the dollar, or the various municipalities that thought that they could do better and failed miserably.

The ISP business is not easy, huge up front capital expense and having to deal with the rapid technological change.

Another expense that is just killing ISPs right now is all the freaking idiots that are calling in saying "my internet is not working".....the vast majority of customer service calls, the internet is just fine, but the customer expects the ISP to figure out how to get their wifi/tablet/smartphone/bluray/smart TV/infected or corrupted PC working so they can go back to surfing porn sites. The concept that the internet coming into your residence is just fine and that is the demarcation point is incomprehensible to most customers calling in. Your ISP piss you off? Go buy an elder person a cheap tablet, 50/50 they wear out their ISP trying to get it working.


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to adamg
Very good point there, buying the top internet package shouldn't come with any caps at all, frankly. I also have the top package available in my market.
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com

adamg

join:2013-03-01
Paterson, NJ
reply to ScooterTejas
said by ScooterTejas :

said by gatorkram:

The thing is this... If I do want to use my connection full speed 24/7 and I pay for the overages, it doesn't make the burden on the network any less. In fact it does nothing at all, well, except make the company more money. So the logical conclusion is the limits and overages are designed to discourage you from using the network more than they think you should be.

You are getting close...."make the company more money" = ability to spend money on network upgrades to accommodate people like you who want to "use my connection full speed 24/7", so the rest of us don't suffer. Everyone is happy in that scenario. You pay for the right to be a pig and the other 99% don't suffer.

You folks seem to think ISPs are cash cows. Mention that to Paul Allen, or the failed, debt laden ISPs bought for pennies on the dollar, or the various municipalities that thought that they could do better and failed miserably.

The ISP business is not easy, huge up front capital expense and having to deal with the rapid technological change.

Another expense that is just killing ISPs right now is all the freaking idiots that are calling in saying "my internet is not working".....the vast majority of customer service calls, the internet is just fine, but the customer expects the ISP to figure out how to get their wifi/tablet/smartphone/bluray/smart TV/infected or corrupted PC working so they can go back to surfing porn sites. The concept that the internet coming into your residence is just fine and that is the demarcation point is incomprehensible to most customers calling in. Your ISP piss you off? Go buy an elder person a cheap tablet, 50/50 they wear out their ISP trying to get it working.

No, I'll tell you what they do with that extra money, they pay their contracted technicians to keep coming to your house multiple times, to bullshit you, and act like they're trying to fix your connection, when they actually know what the problem is and just don't want YOU to know about it.

Here recently, it was getting to the point where I wasn't even getting 1/3 connection speed during afternoon/evening hours. I could see that my signal levels were all perfectly fine, but Suddenlink sends a guy out anyway! And what does he do? He replaces a drop that wasn't even 2 years old, even though there was no signal degradation! And of course, no fix!

So what do I do? I call back! What do they do? Send another guy out to test the exact same thing! By this point, I've already missed 4 hours total of work just on this one issue. So, after the 2nd guy obviously wasnt going to fix anything, I call AGAIN!

This time, they sent an email to the plant! And sensing that I was not going to get anywhere, I contact SDL L3Tech, who promptly tells me exactly what the problem is, and how there was a scheduled headend upgrade a month from then, and then tells me that the coming Friday, they were going to move some modems around for a temporary fix. So of course, what happens next? THE PLANT CALLS ME THE DAY BEFORE THE TEMPORARY FIX GOES INTO EFFECT! And what do they do? They practically BEG me to let them come to my house AGAIN for the 3rd time, having me miss work AGAIN for the 3rd time, and guess when they wanted to come out? THAT FRIDAY! Since I knew what was really going down, I told them no! THEY CALLED BACK! INSISTING that they come out. But I insisted NO!

Yep! That's absolutely right! They were going to come to my house, and BULLSHIT me as though they were fixing something at my house, in order to mask what was really taking place.

So, from day 1, they pay for probably an hour and a half of tech support calls, 3 hours of technicians being at my house, including a replaced drop that wasn't necessary, and were fully ready to pay to have another technician AND a supervisor come to my house, when they knew the real problem the WHOLE TIME. On top of that, there is no concern there that I missed a half day of work just so that they could come lie to my face!

These kinds of business practices are what you see from a company who doesn't have a care in the world about competition. That's all these caps are about as well.


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
reply to lwaster
Some interesting calculations...

I have the 50/3 plan, and pay $80 for it.

This is how quickly, or slowly I can burn through my allocated data transfer limits.

At full speed, 16.7 hours..
»/calculator?sz···vestate=

At 1/2 speed.. 33.4 hours..
»/calculator?sz···vestate=

At 15 55.7 hours..
»/calculator?sz···vestate=

At 5 167 hours..
»/calculator?sz···vestate=

At 2 its 416.6 hours, or 17.4 days...
»/calculator?sz···vestate=
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
So to follow up this post, you can clearly see, I can't even use my connection to its fullest potential for an hour a day, in a given billing period, without going over my limit, and being charged extra.

Is an hour a day really abuse, and excessive?
--

edit: typo

What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
So here we go...

IF I did use my connection, at full speed, for one hour a day, in a 30 day billing period, I would use 628.6 GB

»/calculator?sz···vestate=

So that puts me 278.6 GB over my limt or $60 in overages.

And all this is, is using my connection for 1 hour a day...

Still think overages are fair, or that the tiny included allotment of data is fair?

Wake up
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com

areacode304

join:2006-08-26
WV
reply to ScooterTejas
said by ScooterTejas :

It is terribly arrogant to think you can do whatever you want without regard to the impact to others.

Blah, blah, blah. Other bullshit. wordswordswords

Your reading comprehension must suck something terrible, because I said nothing of the sort. If the best you can do is try to use against me things I've never posted, just stop trying. I've seen elementary school-aged kids hold up their end of an argument better than you. Jesus wept.

Furthermore, take your "logic" and use it as a suppository. Oh, calling me clueless? Ha! You're so dense that light bends around you, son. What's clueless is someone voluntarily including the word "Scooter," which conjures mental images of limp-wristed failures such as Tim Tebow and his silly little Vespa, in their username and honestly expecting to be taken seriously. What are you, like, nine?

adamg

join:2013-03-01
Paterson, NJ
reply to gatorkram
My connection is twice as fast, and I have the same cap! 16 minutes per day at full speed would put me over the cap.


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
said by adamg:

My connection is twice as fast, and I have the same cap! 16 minutes per day at full speed would put me over the cap.

It's pretty stupid, frankly, how they did the caps. They don't even have good usage data on the 107 plan, or at least they didn't back when they decided to use the same cap as the 50 plan.

And we aren't even considering if you want to use your upload in any of these examples.
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
lol, my 30 meg costs me 78 now....


Andy52

@suddenlink.net
and the issue here stems around why they want the caps and what they do if you exceed said cap.

they want to recoup costs from you for some of their failing projects,
as mentioned before Netflix etc. use bandwith suddenlink2go does not? strange isn't it still going through the same network to get to you still using a nodes bandwith.

and instead of slowing the high bandwith users down they just start charging more money i know some people that if they had these caps would end up paying double their monthly in overages.

to recap.suddenlink2go is a failed project competing with Netflix and to make it compete they are trying to make it unfeasible for you to use it.seems criminal if you think about it.

also they would allow people with the highest speeds to plow through multiple overages rather then slow down the offenders.

while throttling is seen as bad its the only solution that would make any sense in the context that suddlink is portraying the situation yet that isn't what they are doing because they know they can make a few bucks off the high-end users that are already paying through the nose for speed.

what it comes down to suddenlink has and always will be overselling their network and recently as a year or two ago admitted they have stopped upgrading it.


Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
said by Andy52 :

they want to recoup costs from you for some of their failing projects

Evidence?
--
If you can't open it, you don't own it.


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
yearly or biyearly rate hikes count? overage fees count?

adamg

join:2013-03-01
Paterson, NJ
reply to Cabal
said by Cabal:

said by Andy52 :

they want to recoup costs from you for some of their failing projects

Evidence?

I would still love to see one of you guys explain how Suddenlink2go not counting against the cap fit's into your "protectin the network" narrative.

chichi27

join:2013-05-03
reply to lwaster
I sat at my computer today and Suddenlink has their meter turned back on and with doing completely nothing they already have me at 64GB's. I've checked everything, and my internet is secured. Where is the fight against this crap to stop it?


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
That fight would be in the pocket of the cable industry lobbyists. Would need to be a massive uprising to get the government to do a damn thing about it.

chichi27

join:2013-05-03
reply to lwaster
When I type in "stop the metered" into the Google search engine its bombarded with Canada going through the same thing with "data caps", but there is nothing about USA fighting against the metered internet. Not one new article about the fight.

You would think people would wake up by now.
They would start questioning their love for Netflix, and Hulu.
We're in a ball in chain blamed for Netflix, and Hulu existence.

SaveTheInternet.com seems like it's power play into doing something , but where is the true fight to stop this?

It's on my mind every day..

Are these websites like SaveTheInternet here to make sure that we are getting crushed by the corporations corporate greed?

Is it because the supreme court made corporation's are people?
The people we elect into office work for corporate greed, and we sit in a never ending battle passive that should be rightfully ,and legally fought.

We need a fight against this metered internet in a whole different way ,and tear down the corporate injustice and freeze their assets, and give it back to consumers.


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
A big factor in some of the difference as to why Canada is actively fighting caps, from what I have seen, is that some of their caps are SEVERELY lower than ours are.

Think about it. The general population most likely has no idea that caps are there. And if they don't have a clue it's because they are CURRENTLY not hitting that cap.

In my view, the US industry is just setting the playing field up for the future. Get everyone cozy with the idea of caps now, so that way when we continue to increase our usage, being charged an overage won't be such a big change.
--
30/2 Suddenlink : Current
5/1 CMA : Old
15/2 TWC : Old


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Yeah, like I said before, its about changing our behavior.

As for us doing something, I sure have been trying right here in these forums to get people to think about the caps, and trying to gage what people would be willing to do if our internet company brings them back.

I am willing to fight, I just need a weapon and a target, and a field of battle.
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
All right guys, just got official word back on the subject. The meter AND overages went back live on May 2

»www.suddenlink.com/allowanceplan/

There have been some changes to several things on that page and the faq (as noted by Pete) and you can access the report that Netforecast has done for SL.

»www.netforecast.com/wp-content/u···port.pdf

Couple keynotes of interest, all traffic including VoIP and SL2GO appear to be counting towards the cap. Only DOCSIS overhead is ignored (re-transmission errors at the modem shouldn't count toward cap, but re-transmissions for packet loss will).

Usage from the previous day will be updated to the page you can see on your account by 8 am the following day. An exception is added that points out if the system does not give you a reading by 8 am, that you either didn't use any internet or that the results were not transmitted in time and do not count towards your cap.

We are also still being given the 3 strikes before being charged. It is still 50 gigs over for $10.
--
30/2 Suddenlink : Current
5/1 CMA : Old
15/2 TWC : Old


gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
Thanks for the news. Needless to say I am upset about it.

I guess you work for suddenlink now, as this is the only place I seem to be able to find any announcement they have decided to turn it all back on.
--
What the heck is a GatorKram? »www.gatorkram.com


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
If they cut me a paycheck, I wouldn't have a problem with it! lol

I guess it just boils down to letting us know here because we were probably the only customers to realize that the metering had a problem, let alone was turned on, then off, then on again.

longgone

join:2000-12-30
Culloden, WV
reply to moldypickle
said by moldypickle:

All right guys, just got official word back on the subject. The meter AND overages went back live on May 2

Couple keynotes of interest, all traffic including VoIP and SL2GO appear to be counting towards the cap. Only DOCSIS overhead is ignored (re-transmission errors at the modem shouldn't count toward cap, but re-transmissions for packet loss will).

We are also still being given the 3 strikes before being charged. It is still 50 gigs over for $10.

This Bandwidth Measuring revival and the overage fee charges was definitely bound to happen, and isn't it odd that this also nearly coincides with that new FCC Chief appointment, so also check him out on this site's weekend Headline article.
This bandwidth usage revival could be viewed as just another additional customer feature that could be called, "Pay As You Go... Over".

Can those overage and 3 strikes notifications work, if anyone is using other DNS addresses, rather than Suddenlink addresses, or are there some other means to receive those notifications?

Do some other Cap Providers offer higher and maybe better correlation on Speed plans in determining the Caps?

Those free bandwidth speed upgrades only seems to actually provide the customers more means to watch even more high resolution stream services from Netflix, Hulu Plus, YouTube and Amazon, rather than even using Suddenlink's own Cable TV channels and services, and then just results in causing even more drastic slow downs, lost and re-transmitted packets and poor net consistency on many of their networks during those vital peak-usage hours. Yes, some might very well agree on rather than just providing those free speed upgrades... but why not also offer Free Higher Cap Limits to go along with it. Free higher speeds were given while this Usage measuring was off, but it appears there is no increase from the old previous Caps Limit.

Checking also on what is now listed as counting towards usage, then maybe the time has come to seriously think about reducing or capping off on ones own customer plans, features and devices that also may effectively count towards bandwidth usage. If Bandwidth Usage Cap is a problem, then Cut Out the TV and or ISP Phone and then maybe get 2 of same or different standalone internet plan accounts or maybe even with different providers.

Wv29999

join:2013-05-05
Oak Hill, WV
reply to lwaster
Sweet last week of April they called me tole me phone service for 20 dollars and would upgrade my speed 15/2 to 30/2 and now your saying the phone counts againts caps hilarious

Wv29999

join:2013-05-05
Oak Hill, WV
at least this week i get to know i will get a call for the home security does that count towards caps too?

longgone

join:2000-12-30
Culloden, WV
reply to lwaster
From the Suddenlink allowance plan FAQ:
"All customers included in Suddenlink’s allowance plan as of May 2, 2013, were set to zero overages".

So I'd assume this zeroing date on the 2nd means that as a new starting date of the on-line Usage tool's daily and monthly charts and graphs calulated information, and maybe all the old previous starting and ending date of the 15th it used for me and all the previous months measurement amounts may not be shown anymore?

What information does any others in here now see on the on-line Usage Tool monthly and daily graphs and charts and that zeroing out on May 2nd?


arandomguy

@suddenlink.net
Slightly off on that reading. What that means isn't that they reset current usage charts, but rather if you had overages the last time they implemented this horribly broken, inaccurate, and anti-competitive system then they won't count.

Also, I love how they do this all very surreptitiously so no one that doesn't actually check their site even knows it's happening.


moldypickle

join:2009-01-04
Haughton, LA
kudos:3
You'll find out about it when you go over.