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GuruGuy

join:2002-12-16
Atlanta, GA
reply to Tamarisk

Re: Microsoft KB2823324 causing issues

said by Tamarisk :

GuruGuy,

I saw the security certificate popup error earlier on Friday. I thought it was Java trying to install an update. Looked it over and then dismissed it and never got it again. I have now uninstalled the KB so hopefully it won't be back. I believe next week Java will have its monthly update so we'll see how that goes.

I already had the latest Java update, so I don't believe that was it. However, I haven't seen it come back, so not sure what it was.
--
GuruGuy

DJStarfox

join:2000-07-05
Orlando, FL
reply to StuartMW

Crap. I already installed that update. Guess MS is going back to the days of patching the patch. I do miss service packs.



therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
reply to dave

An alternative:

Nirsoft: WinUpdatesList (wul.exe)

"WinUpdatesList displays the list of all Windows updates (Service Packs and Hotfixes) installed on your local computer. For hotfix updates, this utility also displays the list of files updated with these hotfixes. In addition, it allows you to instantly open the Web link in Microsoft Web site that provides more information about the selected update, uninstall an update, copy the update information to the clipboard, or save it to text/HTML/XML file."

And of course you could use Windows 'Add or Remove Programs' (or whatever they may call it).



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to siljaline

said by siljaline:

Brian Krebs wrote:

quote:
The problems with the patch appear to be centered around Windows 7 and certain applications on Windows 7, such as Kaspersky Anti-Virus.

I'm really getting sick of people claiming that KB2823324 only affects those

• In Brazil

• Running Kaspersky Anti-Virus.

That is clearly false from my experience, which I've posted multiple times in this thread, and others experiences (has anyone else actually Googled this?)

KB2823324 updated NTFS.SYS--the NTFS filesystem driver!!! In short it can potentially affect any application that reads/writes files. My own experience is that volumes can be marked "dirty".

I don't give a damn what MS says or Brian Krebs says. I use my own judgement!

PS: If MS really believes this is an isolated issue why are they recommending that everyone uninstall it? They have a vested interest in trying to minimize the impact.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Are you running anything else that might have hooked itself into the file system in weird ways?

(I can understand in principle how a file system update might spook antivirus software, but the Brazil angle baffles me....)

Re: your PS; I think that likely indicates that they so far have error reports suggesting some correlation with antivirus, but they don't have root cause yet. Under such circumstances, I'd recommend removal too.



therube

join:2004-11-11
Randallstown, MD
reply to StuartMW

Kaspersky Releases Fix for Buggy Microsoft KB2823324 Update (though seemingly there are still other issues outstanding with that patch ^^ .)



StuartMW
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Galt's Gulch
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reply to dave

said by dave:

Are you running anything else that might have hooked itself into the file system in weird ways?

/sigh

»Re: Microsoft KB2823324 causing issues
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8

The question wasn't "what was broken" but "what might have caused the breakage". The MS defragmenter, which I supposed you meant, doesn't have weird hooks, it uses documented APIs.



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
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Exactly. Install KB2823324 and scheduled defrags break. Uninstall it and they work again. Seems very clear to me. How many here have checked this for themselves?

You're right that MS may not know the underlying cause yet but they seem, to me, to be fixated on Kaspersky and Brazil.

My point is that people can Google for themselves and read first-hand reports from users rather than spouting the official MS line.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



StuartMW
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reply to dave

said by dave:

...but the Brazil angle baffles me...

Perhaps some Unicode related problem.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


nwrickert
sand groper
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reply to StuartMW

For all of that, I am still not sure whether to uninstall.

I have not run into any problems.

As best I can tell, Microsoft has not called a news conference to tell the world to uninstall this.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 20.0


dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
reply to StuartMW

Seems implausible, since by definition Unicode is the same character set independent of locale, and therefore affects no 'language' more than any other.



howieh
4 more weeks
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join:2000-08-06
Metuchen, NJ
kudos:1
reply to nwrickert

I had it installed and had no problems. Then I followed the recommendation to uninstall and now I can't get Norton Ghost backup software to run without errors. It may just be a coincidence. The OS is Win7 32.
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StuartMW
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reply to dave

said by dave:

Seems implausible...

Possibly but its the only theory I can think of where a specific language or languages could have an effect.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


javaMan
The Dude abides.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

For all of that, I am still not sure whether to uninstall.

I have not run into any problems.

As best I can tell, Microsoft has not called a news conference to tell the world to uninstall this.

Agree. I haven't had any issues either. I don't have any of the third party software installed that are apparently causing the concerns so perhaps that is why. I guess I'll leave until I run into some unexplained issue.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

For all of that, I am still not sure whether to uninstall. ...
As best I can tell, Microsoft has not called a news conference to tell the world to uninstall this.

Here you go. Not a news conference, but a blog post.
»blogs.technet.com/b/msrc/archive···sue.aspx
"Contrary to some reports, the system errors do not result in any data loss nor affect all Windows customers. However, all customers who have installed security update 2823324 should follow the guidance that we have provided in KB2839011 to uninstall it."

The way I interpret that is "all" customers. So I got rid of the update. The issue that was being attempted to be fixed wasn't remotely exploitable anyway.


nwrickert
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1 recommendation

said by Frodo:

Here you go. Not a news conference, but a blog post.

That's not the same thing.

If removing is really important, they would have a news conference. If it is only a blog post, then it can't all that important.
--
AT&T Uverse; Buffalo WHR-300HP router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.3; firefox 20.0


Blackbird
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2 recommendations

reply to StuartMW

The reality is that boot problems have been observed on systems on which KB2823324 was just installed, and that also are running certain 3rd-party software. The specific reasons are not yet known (or the MS postings would note them). However, there is more than one kind of problem being noted, not just boot issues... and the 3rd-party linkage is mainly related to the boot-failure problem. No such linkage appears to exist for some of the other behavioral oddities (such as Stuart's disk defragmentation issue), yet removing the KB clears the problem. Bottom line: 2823324 causes some as-yet unknown kind of negative interactions with certain systems/settings, up to and including boot problems if the systems happen to also contain certain 3rd-party problems. That's too general a risk for me to take chances with my system, especially with something as central as ntfs.sys.

On that basis, I certainly would choose not to install it at this point on any system; if it did get installed on my system and the system appears to suddenly have exhibited problems of some kind, I would uninstall it immediately; if it was on my system along with the identified 3rd-party software, I'd uninstall it immediately whether or not a problem had yet appeared. On the other hand, if it was on my system and things looked fine, and no identified 3rd-party software linked to problems was also installed, I'd leave it alone for now - but I'd make doubly sure I had a full, known-good image backup available just in case.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



wiperman

join:2000-08-18
Ocean View, DE

This update issue has caused me to rethink my current strategy of installing Critical & Important updates as soon as they become available. Perhaps I should wait several days to see what comes out in the wash.


Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to Blackbird

said by Blackbird:

I'd leave it alone for now - but I'd make doubly sure I had a full, known-good image backup available just in case.

Well, I don't have such backup, so that update went bye-bye. Anyhow, they said the vulnerability requires physical access to the computer. I kinda look at vulnerabilities that require physical access as "features".


StuartMW
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reply to wiperman

said by wiperman:

This update issue has caused me to rethink my current strategy of installing Critical & Important updates as soon as they become available.

Agreed. Or at the very least check the KB details before installing and hold-off on system critical changes (such as NTFS.SYS).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Phoenix22
Death From Above
Premium
join:2001-12-11
SOG C&C Nrth
Reviews:
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reply to StuartMW

said by StuartMW:

Just saw this

KB2823324 causing boot issues in Brazil and some other locales

and did a Google search. This particular update, released Tues April 9th, seems to be causing issues.

I suspect it's causing a problem on my Win7 x64 box. Scheduled defragmentation is failing and if I reboot the machine it immediately does a CHKDSK.

PS: Just uninstalled the update.

PPS: When CHKDSK was run automatically or manually it was really slow.

i'm not having any issues........whaz up with dis?
--
101ST ABN Div. (AirAssault) "Rendezvous With Destiny!" "Night Stalkers/Phoenix Flight" For Buddy...who lived it! Whiskey for my men and beer for my horses! H.A.L.O!, 5th Grp., MACV SOG, 160TH AVN SOG, Death From Above, VFW, AmLegion


Phoenix22
Death From Above
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join:2001-12-11
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reply to StuartMW

i hope their fix does not nail me......btw, auslogics w7 tools really work.....i've been runnin' them 4 a year........i always dump the junk 6 thousand or so files, clear up the reg, and defrag the drive.......especially after the monthly nightmare.........so far knock on my head
--
101ST ABN Div. (AirAssault) "Rendezvous With Destiny!" "Night Stalkers/Phoenix Flight" For Buddy...who lived it! Whiskey for my men and beer for my horses! H.A.L.O!, 5th Grp., MACV SOG, 160TH AVN SOG, Death From Above, VFW, AmLegion



aannoonn

@optonline.net
reply to GuruGuy

said by GuruGuy:

MS$ has NOT pulled the update from win update.

I uninstalled it from 4 boxes, and it now shows up as available when I run win update. If it was pulled, it certainly would not be showing up as available.

You need to 'Check for updates' again, and it will go away.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
reply to Frodo

said by Frodo:

Well, I don't have such backup...

Well I learned, at a young age, that anything not backed up is "temporary". The meaning of "temporary" varies but sooner or later your data will be "non-existent"

I have my data on 3 PC's (all of which get backed up), USB drives, external HD's (multiple) and CD's/DVD's. Paranoid? You betchya but it's saved my ass many times over the decades.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

Libra
Premium
join:2003-08-06
USA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to sly53

said by sly53:

Thanks Libra, what you posted was what I was trying to say in my post above. Good to know I was not the only one, thought I had done something wrong but I guess I did ok, Thanks sly

You're welcome. I also noticed on my Vista computer on which the uninstall went well, after the reboot I went to a standard account and used the internet - all seemed fine until I tried to log off. That didn't work and I couldn't bring up task manager either. I could still bring up the start menu and attempted to shut down. After a noticeable amount of time I was brought to the welcome screen and at that point shut down the computer.

I just turned it on now and it seems to be okay, but I'll wait a bit before upgrading my browser (which I intended to do yesterday).

Sincerely, Libra


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

I don't know exactly what caused your and sly53 See Profile's problems but since KB2823324 relates to the filesystem the O/S may've been checking it making it look like the system had "hung".

I referenced this behavior in my original post.

quote:
PPS: When CHKDSK was run automatically or manually it was really slow.
More info on CHKDSK.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Dustyn
Premium
join:2003-02-26
Ontario, CAN
kudos:11
reply to nwrickert

said by nwrickert:

For all of that, I am still not sure whether to uninstall.

I have not run into any problems.

As best I can tell, Microsoft has not called a news conference to tell the world to uninstall this.

Ditto. I have it installed and have not encountered these issues others have reported.
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to siljaline

said by siljaline:

Does anyone that was not having issues with the cited KB, who removed it and are now seeing BSOD's ?

You had to jinx me, didn't you....

BSOD coming back out of sleep.
I could find no reference to anything relative, logs, dumps or any form of record, other than the standard alert:

"The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly." and "The previous system shutdown.......was unexpected."

Do you think I could find 1 record of the event?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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reply to StuartMW

Any way one slices it, if installing a Win update causes problems or if uninstalling such update causes problems for multiple users, there's something inherently wrong with respect to the update itself and/or how it was auto-installed. That's pretty much inescapable... especially if breakage occurs upon uninstallation! At the end of the day, something about KB2823324 just doesn't pass a rational sniff test.
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville