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Coxcustomer
@cox.net

Coxcustomer to domiguy85

Anon

to domiguy85

Re: [GA]WarnerRobins High latency\bad tracerouting to many areas

Got the same issue here in Warner Robins. Has been going on for the past few days. I have had broadband here with Cox for about 4 years.

This happens a lot and when you call it is ALWAYS on your end and you will need to agree to unknown charges if they have to come out and "fix" something on your end. No way I am verbally agreeing to an open ended agreement like that. Odd part is it being on "my end" is after a month or two it fixes and we have about 3 or 4 months of GREAT connectivity. Odd how it seems to fix itself for that long it being on out end and all.

Cox Cable in Warner Robins really other then DSL has no competition. FIOS is not here yet. I do believe once FIOS comes here we will see a big change as if they do not shape up a lot of customers will ship out.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS

MVM

said by Coxcustomer :

Cox Cable in Warner Robins really other then DSL has no competition. FIOS is not here yet. I do believe once FIOS comes here we will see a big change as if they do not shape up a lot of customers will ship out.

Is Warner Robins served by Verizon? If not, FiOS will never get there.
Coxcustomer77
join:2013-04-17

Coxcustomer77

Member

I looked it up and it seems you are right. I hope this does not mean we are stuck with extremely bad service in the middle Georgia area for LIFE. No competition no reason to improve. They can keep offering bad service and we have no choice but to either take it or downgrade to a DSL line.

Not really fair in my opinion.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

domiguy85 to Coxcustomer

Member

to Coxcustomer
said by Coxcustomer77:

Got the same issue here in Warner Robins. Has been going on for the past few days. I have had broadband here with Cox for about 4 years.

This happens a lot and when you call it is ALWAYS on your end and you will need to agree to unknown charges if they have to come out and "fix" something on your end. No way I am verbally agreeing to an open ended agreement like that. Odd part is it being on "my end" is after a month or two it fixes and we have about 3 or 4 months of GREAT connectivity. Odd how it seems to fix itself for that long it being on out end and all.

I know what you're talking about; the Level 2 guy said that there's a possibility of a fee if they find an issue on your end. I'm not worried about that though since I didn't start my Cox service until last week Wednesday. Any issue they do find means that it wasn't setup correctly by the first technician. I'll laugh at any attempts to charge me fees because I've been constantly documenting here. I'll also file a FCC report if I get forced with any dubious charges.

I'm not too happy regarding your comments about it doing this every now and then (no way I'll let this go for months), but I'll try my best make it so that it'd be more cost effective for them to find the issue than not.
said by Coxcustomer77:

Cox Cable in Warner Robins really other then DSL has no competition. FIOS is not here yet. I do believe once FIOS comes here we will see a big change as if they do not shape up a lot of customers will ship out.

Sadly this is true. I've had good experiences with Windstream DSL for about a year or so at least; they did have one issue that lasted a few days, but they admitted it was a problem on their end and fixed it. Their connection is pretty stable as you can tell by the traceroutes of my previous posts. It's just a shame how much slower it is.

And yeah, FIOS, google fiber, whatever...would change quite a bit if that were available.

Update: Technician should be here soon since I have a 5-7 p.m appointment. I'll post again once he finishes.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

Well, that was fast.

Tech came by about 5:20 or so, ran some tests at the tap, said all looked good after 15 or so minutes, and then went on his way. As I told him and everyone already figured out, he wasn't likely going to find anything, but the checkup was needed to escalate further to the maintenance team. He seemed to understand this.

I'll keep updates on what happens next, especially if they take too long to address this ongoing issue.

In the meantime, here's my daily traceroute showing high latencies for 4/17, 5:49 p.m:


Coxcustomer77
join:2013-04-17

Coxcustomer77

Member

Interesting that we are BOTH having really close to the exact same experience. It is even the same IP that is suffering high packet loss.

Using that data I mean it is pretty safe to say that something around the area of 68.1.4.133 is not right at all.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

domiguy85

Member

said by Coxcustomer77:

Interesting that we are BOTH having really close to the exact same experience. It is even the same IP that is suffering high packet loss.

Using that data I mean it is pretty safe to say that something around the area of 68.1.4.133 is not right at all.

Right, 68.1.8.1 and 68.1.4.133 always seem to jump in latency during the peak times. Take that what you will I suppose since it didn't seem to matter as much to the techs. I was originally given the excuse that it was issues with the backbone network, but I find it sad that there aren't contingency plans for cases like this (especially if it's been happening to you for awhile now).

I would really recommend you complain to tech support and/or get a credit for the poor service if possible. More people complaining can only raise awareness on the issue if it really is a city-wide problem.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to Coxcustomer77

MVM

to Coxcustomer77
One more time: You show no (0%) packet loss at 74.125.225.240. Please explain how packets lost at 68.1.4.133 are making it to 74.125.225.240. Because that is what your PingPlot is showing.

Please look at your first Cox IP address: 68.1.8.1. A latency of 109 ms at that hop is not normal. Here is a tracert from a Comcast user to an AT&T user:
Tracing route to reki.aosake.net [68.126.149.120]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.123.254
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3    18 ms    11 ms    15 ms  ge-1-1-ur01.corvallis.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.219.97]
  4    14 ms    14 ms     *     te-9-1-ur01.salem.or.bverton.comcast.net [68.87.216.54]
 

Note the latency of the 3rd and 4th hops is only 11 ms to 18 ms. I expect this from early hops on cable connections.

Here is another going the other way:
Tracing route to vcodsk0039.hsd1.or.comcast.net [67.171.206.239]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms     2 ms     1 ms  suzuka.aosake.net [192.168.0.1]
  2     9 ms     8 ms     9 ms  adsl-68-126-149-0.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [68.126.149.0]
  3     9 ms     8 ms    22 ms  64.164.107.129
 

The 2nd and 3rd hops are 8 ms to 9 ms, with one statistical outlier. This is typical for DSL with Fastpath (no error correction).

And a recent trace to Google:
Tracing route to www.google.com [74.125.224.148]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms     1 ms  homeportal [192.168.42.1]
  2    27 ms    24 ms    26 ms  173-228-7-1.dsl.static.sonic.net [173.228.7.1]
  3    24 ms    25 ms    25 ms  gig1-4.cr1.lsatca11.sonic.net [70.36.243.13]
 

2nd and 3rd hops ate 24 ms to 27 ms; typical for DSL with Interleaved (error correction active).

The problem is not packet loss midway to the end, but induced high latency at the beginning.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

domiguy85

Member

Yeah, despite it saying packet loss on the top bar there, I'm assuming there's none actually lost on return (or whatever the right way to say it is), since the bottom graph doesn't say as much.

I would expect drops in connection and red lines otherwise.

Definitely a latency issue though.
Coxcustomer77
join:2013-04-17

Coxcustomer77

Member

domiguy85 any update yet? Still random drops here. Randomly websites not loading and what not. Well man glad to know at least you will give them a fuss for it. I gave up long ago. I have come to except our fate after years of fighting getting no where.

No joke I have fought every which way I know how. It never ever gets me very far. Too old to fight anymore. I do like the fact that you are. Maybe just maybe some others will see your fight trying to get internet from a service you pay for and maybe others in the area will chip in. Maybe it will attract enough attention to actually force them to do something for a change. I am not holding my breath anymore.

Sometimes I forget I am living in America and think I am really in some third world country then think nope they have better ISP's then us. How crazy sad is that? - My quote of the day circa now by me.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

domiguy85

Member

said by Coxcustomer77:

domiguy85 any update yet? Still random drops here. Randomly websites not loading and what not. Well man glad to know at least you will give them a fuss for it. I gave up long ago. I have come to except our fate after years of fighting getting no where.

No joke I have fought every which way I know how. It never ever gets me very far. Too old to fight anymore. I do like the fact that you are. Maybe just maybe some others will see your fight trying to get internet from a service you pay for and maybe others in the area will chip in. Maybe it will attract enough attention to actually force them to do something for a change. I am not holding my breath anymore.

Sometimes I forget I am living in America and think I am really in some third world country then think nope they have better ISP's then us. How crazy sad is that? - My quote of the day circa now by me.

I know how you feel; usually I would do the same, but I've had similar issues happen to me before and I determined I was never going to put up with poor service ever again. I can give a company some slack if they're putting an earnest effort to solving an issue, but they will never hear the end of it if I get an inkling they're doing otherwise. That and I really don't want to use my DSL for gaming/streaming .

Luckily, I have the benefit of an active DSL line I can switch to whenever, but most users don't have that luxury.

If I were you and you already complained to them about the drops or had a tech over with no positive results, I recommend you file a FCC report to make notice of the issue; it's very easy and I've heard it gets results:

»esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsfor ··· pe=2000B

Unfortunately, I don't know the history of your situation, but can only give advice on it. I'm not at the point where I'll fill one out myself, but each day that this isn't solved is a day closer I do file one myself.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

Update 4/18 8:41 p.m:




I'm currently calling tech support for a status report on the issue. The poor Level 1 guy tried to troubleshoot my issue and I was too nice to tell him it was fruitless before I was transferred to level 2. At least he tried I guess, but I might start forcing them to transfer me immediately regardless of policy.
Coxcustomer77
join:2013-04-17

Coxcustomer77 to domiguy85

Member

to domiguy85
Lol well you got to admit you been posting on this for 7 days and all you get is the same run around I have been getting for years. Any legit company would NEVER EVER let a customer experience this kind of bad internet connection for over a week. I know companies do this but no way can it be acceptable behavior.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

1 edit

domiguy85

Member

Update #1 for service call at 9:00 p.m 4/18:

Oh god. Apparently the very unqualified tech that came by not only had the audacity to write that my appointment was canceled (THE VERY ONE HE CAME TO YESTERDAY), but he also marked my ticket as "resolved". All this even though I specifically told him that my issue was ongoing, that he wasn't going to find a problem with the signal here, and that it'd needed to be escalated to the maintenance team. Believe me when I say I let the tech supporters know this and I would really question if he should even have his job after this. What a load of crap.

In other words, nothing would have happened if I had not called again. I talked to level 2 and they gave me the same spiel that the issue was on the BACKBONE INTERNET not within Cox's control. It's also interesting to mention that despite all of this, there's been zero mention of any kind of credit to my future bill due in 12 days. I had to bring one up myself.

So basically everyone within this area is receiving suboptimal service and being billed fully because 'it isn't within Cox's control'. Maybe instead of telling me what they can't do, they can tell me what they CAN do.

Update #2:

I'm supposedly getting a call from a Level 2 Supervisor about it because I laid it down pretty hard on one of the poor Level 2 technicians. She said in about 5-10 minutes as of 9:10 p.m. Let's see if she calls.

Update #3:

The supervisor called and gave me the same info, but let me know that ANOTHER technician would have to come by to do what the first technician didn't do correctly in the first place. Yes, another appointment in a day or two to properly escalate this issue to the maintenance team. She told me that I specifically had to request a 'maintenance work order' and to contact the technician's supervisor if I get any indication that he doesn't know how to do his job (not her words, but you understand).

I was being nice, but the first technician honestly seemed oblivious to his surroundings and totally new (was this on purpose?). I was told that he should've also checked inside the home for issues (which he never did).

I'll update once again after this next appointment, hopefully tomorrow ('if they have time'), but likely not until the scheduled Saturday (holy hell).

Update #4

On one last note, I don't think I've ever been that curt and direct to someone over the phone before (and I was still being pretty polite I think). Congrats Cox, you have done what not many have done to me before, and tested my emotions. It's amazing how focused you become when justifiably angered.
Coxcustomer77
join:2013-04-17

1 edit

Coxcustomer77

Member

See a patern? It is never there fault. Deny deny deny. If it is not your fault it is the Internets fault the internet broke. I almost think that criminals or criminal lawyers trained there techs. Deny everything let the burden of proof be on the customer.

I wonder if Cox cable is like this all across America? I do not see how something like that would be possible. As if it was no one would ever get an email or play a game ever.

My biggest question is why is the base allowing this? I am almost positive they do not use cox cable i think they have a direct line or something out there. However a lot of people on base live in Warner Robins. You would almost have to think that they would be complaining to the base commander about the horrid conditions. The military I would think would do something about it. Evidently not though.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

3 edits

domiguy85

Member

On another note, I'd like to add that my bill for April 30th is $36.xx after a credit I had to ask for myself. It's funny how it's correct when the automated system tells me this amount, but if I look online, it says $97 on the main account page, then $67 on the 'pay bill' page.

So I'm getting 3 different values for my bill :\. Looks like yet another call is in order so they fix this. I'll save it for tomorrow since I've had enough for the day.


domiguy85

1 edit

domiguy85

Member

Looks like my appointment was moved to today at 5-7 p.m. Proof here in case I encounter any more shenanigans:




On a somewhat good note, someone fixed my bill without me asking so it properly says $36.26 on the 'pay bill page'. It does still say $97 on the front page, but I guess I'll just ignore that. Thanks whoever's reading this. The whole point of the 50% credit was that the problem should've been fixed within a week or two, so if this lasts until the end of the month, I start to wonder if I should be paying at all.




I'm also wondering why the bill is due on April 30th when my service didn't start until April 10th.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

High Latency Traceroute for 4/19 at 4:30 p.m before the scheduled appointment:


domiguy85

3 edits

domiguy85

Member

Bad news.

Tech came by at 5:30 or so p.m and basically said what I and everyone thought from Day 1 about the node in my area (I am on node 38) being congested. Apparently they're working on an upgrade project but it likely won't be completed until a month and a half or so.

Since this is the case, I will be calling to either get full credit on the time it takes for them to complete this project or I will be canceling my Cox service until I get a guarantee that they finished.

It's really sad that it took an entire week to be told what we originally thought in the first place (and what was being done about it). It doesn't really matter though; all I know is I'm not paying for a service that provides no benefit to me when I have an active, more stable DSL line.

I will update again on the results of that billing call.

EDIT: I think the technician just gave me a faulty email address to contact him by, or he didn't realize it's not working. (looks like it was a .com instead of .net)
Expand your moderator at work
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

Re: [GA]WarnerRobins High latency\bad tracerouting to many areas

What's sad is that it's an issue of greed and laziness to me. They oversaturate an area with no regard for congestion, so instead of upgrading before the problem surfaces, they wait until it's a problem.

That's a complete disregard for the customers just like you said.
domiguy85

1 edit

domiguy85

Member

Sorry for the lack of updates as I haven't gotten around to contacting billing yet. As you can tell below, the problem is still ongoing. That stable line you see below is me connecting to my DSL service, since the Cox cable connection is entirely worthless to me during times I want to use it. A lot of this is just for documentation sake since it's very likely it won't be solved anytime soon.




This marks thirteen straight days of terrible latencies on my Cox Premiere Service.
Expand your moderator at work
nickphx
join:2009-10-29
Phoenix, AZ

1 edit

nickphx

Member

Re: [GA]WarnerRobins High latency\bad tracerouting to many areas

How is it an open-ended contract? They simply state if the issue is not on their end when the tech is there, they will inform you of this and there MAY BE a fee for the visit. When I had cox out to replace a DVR that had a dead drive, on a sunday, when I made the call on a saturday night.. They stated there may be a $49 fee. If there were any other fees I would be told BEFORE WORK IS COMPLETED and I would have to AGREE... OH NOZ! OPEN ENDED CONTRACTZ, THEY WANTED THOUSANDS!@#!

I never understand why people post mis-information and emotionally fueled rants on this site.

If the issues you were experiencing were impacting a larger group of the market, you would see more people complaining.
nickphx

nickphx to domiguy85

Member

to domiguy85
So what you're saying is COX should be able to predict the future.

What do you think would happen if they were under-provisioning and had purchased unneeded hardware and bandwidth? Your costs would go up. People are already on here whining about a few dollars.

It's a delicate balance for COX to manage current usage and projected future usage.

A complete disregard would mean not working to fix the problem.
Do you know how their network is designed?
Do you know what needs to happen to upgrade?
Do you think they just flip a switch?

I had a DSL line with qwest. They had a similar problem with a REGIONAL gateway during peak times. It took them over a YEAR to fix.
domiguy85
join:2009-06-02
Warner Robins, GA

domiguy85

Member

In case anyone's wondering, some comments that Coxcustomer made were removed or moderated (is that what the 'your moderator at work' means?).

nickphx, if you were replying to me (not sure which post), I'll respond thoroughly later today (busy).
domiguy85

domiguy85 to nickphx

Member

to nickphx
said by nickphx:

So what you're saying is COX should be able to predict the future.

Actually, yes, to a degree. If they have proper bandwidth monitoring and contingency plans in place, they should be aware of any potential congested nodes as subscription rates go up. I don't need to work in IT to make that observation (hey, I do though!)

Someone would just need to monitor each node, see the slowly rising spikes in latencies, and say to others, 'hey guys, maybe we should be a little proactive and start upgrades before this node becomes a problem'. I said this was likely a congested node on Day 1 of my service. Instead, they keep subscribing until the nodes become fully saturated, and who feels the brunt of it? The customers.

This isn't a Cox only issue; ISPs are notorious for doing this, and they get away with it because the average, uneducated user won't make a fuss about it. Saturate, deal with complaints, upgrade when enough complain, maximize profits. Problems like this don't come out of thin air. I would agree with you if I saw slight slowdowns during primetime hours, but I'm seeing triple the normal latency. Who told me about slowdowns/upgrades when my service was first setup? Noone.

It wasn't until the most recent technician came by (last Friday) someone elaborated on the upgrade issue. He specifically said there's a disconnect between the sellers of cox services (including higher tiers) and the actual hardware capabilities of the lines. Sell, sell, sell.
said by nickphx:

What do you think would happen if they were under-provisioning and had purchased unneeded hardware and bandwidth? Your costs would go up. People are already on here whining about a few dollars.

We're not Cox's budget planners, nor should we ever claim to be. Keeping costs low is understandable, but not if it means a significant drop in service quality. As you said before, there's a required balance, but from a customer's perspective, I see it as one poorly managed by Cox at this point. Also, personally, any complaints in regards to cost have been out of principle for a service I can't actually use. I will reiterate, not a single person mentioned any form of compensation during this entire ordeal to me until I brought it up myself. Simply saying, "hey, your node is congested while we work on some upgrades, unfortunately we can't do much at the moment, so here's something to offset the significant inconvenience in the meantime". Transparency, at the bare minimum, shows respect to the customer.
said by nickphx:

Do you know how their network is designed?

said by nickphx:

Do you know what needs to happen to upgrade?

Irrelevant to the customer as long as he or she is told of such upgrades and provided compensation during the time of significant drop in service.
said by nickphx:

Do you think they just flip a switch?

Really?
said by nickphx:

I had a DSL line with qwest. They had a similar problem with a REGIONAL gateway during peak times. It took them over a YEAR to fix.

Please tell me you complained and/or received credit for the service during this time and didn't just bear with it. I'd be incredibly disappointed to hear that you paid in full, and I would've considered just disconnecting and using another company while they worked on that fix. Let me guess, there were no other viable options in your area.

As I've said in a previous post, if Cox is truly working on a upgrade that will take a month or two (how the heck do I really know?), there's nothing I can do, so the only options are to receive credit for broken services or to disconnect until they finish it. I'm giving them that choice.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

Daily High Latency Traceroute 6:26 p.m 4/23:




Tiffany from here and the Cox Support Forums (»forums.cox.com/forum_hom ··· spx#6424) has told me to wait on word from the maintenance team about the issue. Note that the technician told me they wouldn't be able to solve the problem, but I guess we'll find out for sure. I should be getting word within 10 business days or less.

I was told by support that any billing issues should wait to see how this is resolved and/or wait until the due date so that any potential credits can be done all at once.

Apparently bills are always due at the end of the month (or within a week before fees are applied), so that answered the other question I had.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

Daily High Latency Traceroute 7:50 p.m 4/24:




No updates yet. I didn't realize I paused the traceroute, hence some of that data being missing there.
domiguy85

domiguy85

Member

11:32 p.m 4/25