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dave
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to javaMan

Re: Windows 8 Blamed for Biggest PC Shipment Plunge Ever

Well, I disagree on 'disaster'. They shipped Bob, all of us techies had a good laugh and thought it was silly, and Microsoft gave up on the program. One cancelled non-mainstream project doesn't equate to a 'disaster' for a large corporation: I think no customers were lost because of Bob.

Windows 8, on the other hand, has the potential to be an actual 'disaster' if it ends up eroding the customer base. I think the jury's still out on that one, and perhaps 8.1 will recover from the misstep.



javaMan
The Dude abides.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

1 edit

said by dave:

. . .

Windows 8, on the other hand, has the potential to be an actual 'disaster' if it ends up eroding the customer base. I think the jury's still out on that one, and perhaps 8.1 will recover from the misstep.

Agreed. I haven't bought 8 and from the feedback so far I probably won't. I just don't see an advantage. On the other hand, if there were enough core improvements, such as the enhanced file management capabilities I've heard about, that might mitigate the nuisances of the new UI. It will be interesting to see how they respond with the next release.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

There are actually a rather nice list of improvements under the hood, but that's much less visible than the UI.
--
Wacky Races 2012!



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to aurgathor

Near as I can tell from the latest Windows Blue AKA Windows 8.1 leaks, it wont stop those people who are up in arms over Windows 8 from being,.....up in arms.

Its early yet so this could change by the time Windows 8.1 is released. Its just not looking all that different right now.



javaMan
The Dude abides.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

There are actually a rather nice list of improvements under the hood, but that's much less visible than the UI.

That's what I've heard, I just can't decide whether they are all really worth the hassle.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20


markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

The coupled Win 7 and current hardware is "good enough" for nearly everything. Windows 8 really depends on the new Xbox and Windows Phone/Tablet penetration. If the other areas succeed, having that same GUI on the rarely used dusty box in the corner will also be a success when we look far back on 2012; just like we in 2012 consider Windows 95 to be a success when in fact it was "Microsoft's Disaster" of it's day. It is a huge gamble, though, for Microsoft could wind up not getting foothold in the other spaces while attrition takes out the PC (hasted for some due to Windows 8, hard numbers still unknown).
--
Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to aurgathor

What I don't quite understand is why Apple doesn't slash prices right now and pick up a huge chunk of the desktop and laptop market while people are so dissatisfied with Win 8 machines. They could do that for a year and then slowly raise prices back up again. But maybe they can't. I don't see any indication of it at all.



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

said by Kerodo:

What I don't quite understand is why Apple doesn't slash prices right now and pick up a huge chunk of the desktop and laptop market while people are so dissatisfied with Win 8 machines. They could do that for a year and then slowly raise prices back up again. But maybe they can't. I don't see any indication of it at all.

That's not Apple's business model. They don't want to be associated with the idea of "cheap". Their angle is to give the perception of higher then or above average quality for which one must pay a premium for.

Meanwhile the hardware under the hood is the same thing or essentially the same thing as other PC hardware and tablets. Outer construction may use better materials like aluminum (rather then plastic) and sturdier construction but the value of that is debatable IMO.

OS X and iOS is what makes the products truelly unique.

Kerodo

join:2004-05-08

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess they are most interested in appealing to a certain market segment, rather than capturing market share.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to dave

said by dave:

said by Mele20:

What's "Bob"?

Bob is Bob.

Thanks. That sounds awful.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

I do have a copy of it somewhere.

Thinking about installing it over Windows 8.



javaMan
The Dude abides.
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

said by aurgathor:

I do have a copy of it somewhere.

Thinking about installing it over Windows 8.

LOL
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20

lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to Mele20

said by Mele20:

said by dave:

said by Mele20:

What's "Bob"?

Bob is Bob.

Thanks. That sounds awful.

It was. But it got Bill a wife.


dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO
reply to aurgathor

quote:
Windows Division revenue was $5.703 billion, up 23 percent on the same quarter a year ago. However, $1.085 billion of this was revenue taken in previous quarters for the Windows Upgrade Offer. Excluding this, revenue was $4.618 billion, essentially unchanged year on year. Operating income for the division was $3.459 billion, up 16 percent from third quarter 2012.

Windows revenue is split between OEM and non-OEM sales, the latter including Surface sales, retail upgrades, and corporate volume licenses. The OEM revenue was in line with the overall PC market—a market that fell almost 14 percent last quarter—but the non-OEM share was up 40 percent. Volume licensing grew by double digits, and the company says that two thirds of enterprise desktops are now using Windows 7. With less than a year of Windows XP support remaining, that number should continue to grow.

»arstechnica.com/information-tech···numbers/

psloss
Premium
join:2002-02-24
Lebanon, KS

said by dib22:

quote:
Windows revenue is split between OEM and non-OEM sales, the latter including Surface sales, retail upgrades, and corporate volume licenses. The OEM revenue was in line with the overall PC market—a market that fell almost 14 percent last quarter—but the non-OEM share was up 40 percent. Volume licensing grew by double digits, and the company says that two thirds of enterprise desktops are now using Windows 7. With less than a year of Windows XP support remaining, that number should continue to grow.

»arstechnica.com/information-tech···numbers/

I'd guess a significant part of that non-OEM revenue increase was the $40 Win8 Pro retail upgrade licenses that were available through January.


Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to aurgathor

Apparently, Microsoft is lifting the sanction on lower resolution screens allowing for smaller Windows 8 or Windows Blue / 8.1 tablets, like 7" tablets for example. My guess is this will only be seen in Windows Blue / 8.1.

It should be noted however, that the smaller resolution devices will not support The "Snap" feature which allows for two New UI AKA Metro apps on the screen at the same time. The minimum resolution of 1366x768 for the Snap feature is still enforced.

So older computers / PC tablets with a lower resolution such as 1280x800 (or something lower) wont gain this feature.



workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Octavean

said by Octavean:

said by Kerodo:

What I don't quite understand is why Apple doesn't slash prices right now and pick up a huge chunk of the desktop and laptop market while people are so dissatisfied with Win 8 machines. They could do that for a year and then slowly raise prices back up again. But maybe they can't. I don't see any indication of it at all.

That's not Apple's business model. They don't want to be associated with the idea of "cheap". Their angle is to give the perception of higher then or above average quality for which one must pay a premium for.

Meanwhile the hardware under the hood is the same thing or essentially the same thing as other PC hardware and tablets. Outer construction may use better materials like aluminum (rather then plastic) and sturdier construction but the value of that is debatable IMO.

OS X and iOS is what makes the products truelly unique.

Agreed.

Apple makes a great product but it is, in a way, a veblen good.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.


Jan Janowski
Premium
join:2000-06-18
Skokie, IL
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to aurgathor

Over and Above the OS issues.... If you consider the other hardware that was not supported by new laptops.... ESATA, Firewire, Express Slots....

You keep taking away and people will continue to use old systems... I know, I am.....
--
Looking for 1939 Indian Motocycle



signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to aurgathor

People who seem to defend MS and 8 often talk only about the Metro change, but other things changed too. I ruined a hard drive because I couldn't get 8 to boot to safe mode. Maybe the embedded COA/License is an idea, but sadly, many have had some serious issues with THAT as well. I am sure there are other "shock to the system" changes that have proved unpleasant. I am back to 7 on my desktop, I am disgusted with 8, quite frankly. I tried, I really did.
--
Join Teams Helix and Discovery. Rest in Peace, Leonard David Smith, my best friend, you are missed badly! Rest in peace, Pop, glad our last years were good. Please pray for Colin, he has ependymoma, a brain cancer, donate to a children's Hospital.



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

I'm not sure how much Win8 had to do with your HD issue because physically ruining a HD with SW is rather difficult, and usually only works in certain selected cases. For the record, I did ruin a 10 meg 5.25" FH MFM HD by SW, but the same method [trying to access non-existing cylinders] shouldn't work on recent HDs.

If it's truly a HW failure, it was most likely coincidental. If it's not a HW failure, you should try some low level programs such as "mhdd" to wipe the HD clean.
--
Wacky Races 2012!



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Jan Janowski

said by Jan Janowski:

Over and Above the OS issues.... If you consider the other hardware that was not supported by new laptops.... ESATA, Firewire, Express Slots....

What? No support for eSATA, Firewire and Express Card/PCMCIA slot?!? That would be rather interesting....

--
Wacky Races 2012!


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5
reply to aurgathor

Most certainly it CAN be an issue when I couldn't boot to safe mode and booted only to a black screen dozens of times and had to force cycle my system. That is bad for hard drives, right?



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

It sounds like it could be a hybrid shutdown issue.

I personally disabled that feature on the few systems I've installed Windows 8 on. I don't really see the point of it.

If this is the case I believe it's easily avoided,.....again by disabling it.



signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

I've posted an account of my experience in the HH forum, I apologize but I don't want to retype it. It starts with a defective video card and then spirals downward...



Octavean
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-31
New York, NY
kudos:1

said by signmeuptoo:

I've posted an account of my experience in the HH forum, I apologize but I don't want to retype it. It starts with a defective video card and then spirals downward...

I read the first page of your HH thread but it will take a while before I can get through all 4 pages. I'll reframe from commenting on the matter until I get through it.


signmeuptoo
Bless you Howie
Premium
join:2001-11-22
NanoParticle
kudos:5

Bless you!



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to Octavean

It's possible for a Win8 install to get royally messed up for various reasons and get into an endless reboot-repair cycle -- been there, done that. (have about half a dozen SSDs that were doing just that)

However, it is much more difficult (nigh impossible) to actually damage the HW on modern HD in a short amount of time. Moving parts can be worn out or platters can get scratched, but those are whole different ballgames.
--
Wacky Races 2012!


BlitzenZeus
Burnt Out Cynic
Premium
join:2000-01-13
kudos:3

The worst thing that can happen is a bad right in the file allocation table, or whatever they call it anymore. Nothing like a tons of files losing their marked locations on the disk. I've seen a hdd after it happened, crash, bad write, whatever it was if it lands in the wrong place it can toast the os. The os was unbootable, and after running a disk utility on another computer I was able to restore it, but key files were missing.

Seen the endless reboot with Win 8 also after their new ntfs was not tolerant to older windows operating systems accessing it when this was not a problem for other windows operating systems sharing the same partitions. The previous windows os removed the Win 8 ntfs permissions, and it was unable to boot, even be restored via it's own restore. The older windows os didn't do anything wrong either, it did what it was supposed to do. The new ntfs is a piece of crap, and Microsoft knew they can't play well together.
--
I distrust those people who know so well what god wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires- Susan B. Anthony
Yesterday we obeyed kings, and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to the truth- Kahlil G.



aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1

I think some of the issues may have to do something with the new GPT style partitions that are standard on certain devices. (i.e. Surfaces)
--
Wacky Races 2012!



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback

All Windows 8 with UEFI I believe are GPT, regardless of platform, hardware etc.

I tried to discuss it but the title may have thrown the topic off:
»Win 8 back to Win 7
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke