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34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

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34764170 (banned) to QuantumPimp

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Re: Pair bonding coming soon?

said by QuantumPimp:

said by 34764170:

said by Glen1:

A new modem (dumb) that has 2 RJ11 plugs will still need a Sagemcom behind it from what I have heard.

What you said makes no sense. The Sagemcom is the modem. The modem does the bonding.

It does make sense if the Sagemcom 2864 is only used for PPoE authentication and TR-069 management. Remember that it currently has an unused WAN Ethernet port.

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

urbang33k

Member

said by 34764170:

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

Although I have not heard anything official. I have heard from a coupled of unrelated and independent sources within Bell, that it's being trialed. Unfortunately no one has any details.

Not to mention, the 7330 supports this natively, so the technology is already there in a lot of cases.

»www3.alcatel-lucent.com/ ··· dex.html

QuantumPimp
join:2012-02-19

QuantumPimp to 34764170

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to 34764170
said by 34764170:

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

Knowing the two device solution is very similar to the wide scale production roll out for FTTH makes it possible for FTTN too IMHO.

VDSL bonding is all about supporting multiple HDTV streams into the home. Deploying just for internet is a non sequitur. There are less restrictive alternatives like MLPPP for that use case. So whatever path is chosen must support all of Bells intended applications. I assume support for third party VDSL bonding internet-only modems would be a low priority. Just speculating. I have no real facts.
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

urbang33k

Member

well, as long as we can all agree that this is just speculative banter, until we hear or see something official from Bell...

I'd argue that the 50/10 package could obviously be sold to more customers with vdsl bonding.

I'd also bet that if they rolled out that pair bonding technology you'd see some packages offered that bridged the gap between 50/10 and 175/175 packages offered.

I don't understand what your getting at with: 'support for third party VDSL bonding internet-only modems would be a low priority'.

Who says Bell would have to support a third-party modem? They never have in the past. They'd source a pair-bonding vdsl2 ethernet bridge device, make it part of the mandatory rented hardware for their internet and only support THAT setup. Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Unless I mis-understand what your getting at.
Mont
join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC

Mont

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It must be ready since it's planned for 2013.

QuantumPimp
join:2012-02-19

QuantumPimp to urbang33k

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Yes, this thread is just for entertainment. I assume no one here is a Bell product manager.
said by 34764170:

If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

said by urbang33k:

Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Yes, they have supported third party modems in the wholesale internet market as was the context for the discussion. My point is that support for third party VDSL bonding modems would be very low on the priority list because it's an internet only solution primarily used as a product feature in the wholesale market. Support of these devices does not help Bell sell HDTV services.
Zyzomys
join:2008-05-23
Cantley, QC

Zyzomys to urbang33k

Member

to urbang33k
said by urbang33k :

Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Under PC Care, Bell clearly states that it will assist with the set up of customers' own routers.
quote:
Hardware

The representative will help you install, configure, troubleshoot and coach you on the following equipment:

Wired and wireless networking
Desktop & laptop computers
Tablets
Video/sound cards
Printers
USB devices
MP3 players

Gaming consoles: PlayStation 2, Xbox, Xbox 360
Hubs
Digital cameras
Monitors
Scanners
CD/DVD drivers
Routers (Linksys, DLink, Net Gear, Microsoft, others)


34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to urbang33k

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said by urbang33k:

Although I have not heard anything official. I have heard from a coupled of unrelated and independent sources within Bell, that it's being trialed. Unfortunately no one has any details.

Not to mention, the 7330 supports this natively, so the technology is already there in a lot of cases.

»www3.alcatel-lucent.com/ ··· dex.html

Whether it is being trialed or not is not the issue. I know the equipment Bell is using is very much capable of supporting both bonding and vectoring. Bell utilizing the technology is not really surprising either. It makes sense as they require faster speed tiers and this is the only option they have that is available right this very moment.
34764170

34764170 (banned) to QuantumPimp

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to QuantumPimp
said by QuantumPimp:

said by 34764170:

Bell does not use bonding (yet) and I am very skeptical they would bother with such a setup for a wide scale production roll out for their own Internet / FibeTV service. If with a third party provider users would be using whatever they want for their router.

Knowing the two device solution is very similar to the wide scale production roll out for FTTH makes it possible for FTTN too IMHO.

VDSL bonding is all about supporting multiple HDTV streams into the home. Deploying just for internet is a non sequitur. There are less restrictive alternatives like MLPPP for that use case. So whatever path is chosen must support all of Bells intended applications. I assume support for third party VDSL bonding internet-only modems would be a low priority. Just speculating. I have no real facts.

Sure it is possible, but often trials / betas use different equipment than what the production roll out will be utilizing. I know this is very much beneficial for FibeTV customers as they're currently limited to the number of HD streams they can provide and the customers they can service due to that. This is also very useful for Internet only customers and there are more than enough people who would benefit from this there as well. Bell utilizing the newer DSLAMs was also so they could use any third party modems and do so with off the shelf gear; instead of the CellPipe/Sagemcom modems they are now with the Stingers which have custom firmware for their non-spec DSLAMs. With off the shelf gear they could use anything an OEM such as Actiontec or ZyXEL as examples could produce or any other company. This works much better than using MLPPP. The ISP doesn't need to have MLPPP support and it is much more reliable and transparent. Doesn't require a router with special firmware which from a consumer CPE perspective is non existent with off the shelf gear.
34764170

34764170 (banned) to urbang33k

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to urbang33k
said by urbang33k:

I'd argue that the 50/10 package could obviously be sold to more customers with vdsl bonding.

I'd also bet that if they rolled out that pair bonding technology you'd see some packages offered that bridged the gap between 50/10 and 175/175 packages offered.

Who says Bell would have to support a third-party modem? They never have in the past. They'd source a pair-bonding vdsl2 ethernet bridge device, make it part of the mandatory rented hardware for their internet and only support THAT setup. Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Yes, it is more likely that Bell will utilize bonding initially to support 50/10 on longer loop lengths. But it can also be utilized especially when combined with
vectoring to allow much higher speed tiers. FTTH won't be coming fast enough
and there are lots of areas it won't come any time soon so they'll need options for faster tiers and this is their only option.

With the 7330's they can no longer use the excuse of requiring their modems as there is no longer a requirement for modems with custom firmware. The options open up quite a bit for modems that can be utilized with their VDSL2 service.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by 34764170:

With the 7330's they can no longer use the excuse of requiring their modems as there is no longer a requirement for modems with custom firmware. The options open up quite a bit for modems that can be utilized with their VDSL2 service.

Just remember that if your modem ends being the issue and you're not using a Bell supplied modem you will likely be charged DMC.
34764170 (banned)
join:2007-09-06
Etobicoke, ON

34764170 (banned) to QuantumPimp

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to QuantumPimp
said by QuantumPimp:

Yes, they have supported third party modems in the wholesale internet market as was the context for the discussion. My point is that support for third party VDSL bonding modems would be very low on the priority list because it's an internet only solution primarily used as a product feature in the wholesale market. Support of these devices does not help Bell sell HDTV services.

They can use any off the shelf modem supporting VDSL2 bonding and there are a few options with more on the way as bonding will become more commonly used by providers such as AT&T, CenturyTel (formerly Qwest), Bell and Telus to name a few. They should care about that market. They're competing against cable and they need options to actually compete. They don't want people going with cable instead.
34764170

34764170 (banned) to JC_

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said by JC_:

Just remember that if your modem ends being the issue and you're not using a Bell supplied modem you will likely be charged DMC.

Standard MO from Bell. Wouldn't surprise me, but mostly irrelevant in the discussion.
urbang33k
join:2010-02-13
Canada

1 edit

urbang33k to Zyzomys

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to Zyzomys
said by Zyzomys:

said by urbang33k :

Bell has NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed residential internet service.

Under PC Care, Bell clearly states that it will assist with the set up of customers' own routers.
quote:
Hardware

The representative will help you install, configure, troubleshoot and coach you on the following equipment:

Wired and wireless networking
Desktop & laptop computers
Tablets
Video/sound cards
Printers
USB devices
MP3 players

Gaming consoles: PlayStation 2, Xbox, Xbox 360
Hubs
Digital cameras
Monitors
Scanners
CD/DVD drivers
Routers (Linksys, DLink, Net Gear, Microsoft, others)


Well your absolutely right.

Whats funny is, I don't recall this service ever been mentioned to the field services group. It's obviously something not supported by field technicians. It's always been drilled into us as techs, "Bell doesn't support anything past the modem officially".

So let me modify my statement.... "Bell field technicians in my group have almost probably hardly ever and almost NEVER officially supported third party modems (or cpe router) for any speed of BELL residential internet service."

This service must be contracted out in part or in it's entirety. It must be over-the-phone support for the most part.???

I've been a tech for nearly 15 years and it's the first I'm hearing of this.