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IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Japan vs United States

Japan is very urban and very thickly settled. The US has urban clusters with a lot of rural areas in between. Urban areas are very cheap to wire and yield a very quick ROI.

Rural areas are very costly to wire and will take very long to recoup the investment. 1 Gbps connections may be feasible in countries that are very thickly settled but America is very spread out and we have 1000 times the land mass of Korea and Japan. So the limitation in faster connections is distance. A cable company is not going to run coax to an area that is sparcely settled as it will take a long time to recoup the investment.

Another limiting factor is connecting the urban clusters to the network backbone (take for example the distance from Cedar Rapids IA to Des Moines) as you would have to upgrade the network backbone to support faster connections. Another example is the Dakotas where there are urban centers but a lot of rural areas between those clusters. And when you add distance, you add latency. So a data packet that travels from Springfield MA to Boston is not going to take as long as a packet from Grand Island NE to Fargo ND. Connection speed is one thing but latency can add up with distance. A good example to demonstrate this is do a few speed tests to a nearby server (faster and less latency) and to a far away server (slower and more latency).
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.
clos000

join:2012-12-31

Re: Japan vs United States

Guess LA, Chicago, and NYC and all the other big cities are not thickly settled...

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Re: Japan vs United States

said by clos000:

Guess LA, Chicago, and NYC and all the other big cities are not thickly settled...

Many big cities have at least one decent option for broadband. Boston has Comcast and RCN, NYC has Time Warner and Cablevision, Chicago has Comcast and RCN. I live in Springfield, MA and I have a choice between DSL, Comcast, and various cellular options. I think LA has either Charter or Time Warner but I'm not sure on that one. Chances are if you can get cable television, you can get Internet.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.
pkorx8

join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA

Re: Japan vs United States

And in the heart of silicon valley, the only choice is Comcast cable with Uverse being a distance second choice....
So I guess silicon valley and SF bay area is not thickly settled either.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: Japan vs United States

You should tell the oh mighty Google to build out there since it's basically home to them instead of trying to play Good Corp in other areas only to later sell/shut down their network. Basically like they did with their wireless network.
Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Re: Japan vs United States

said by TBBroadband:

You should tell the oh mighty Google to build out there since it's basically home to them instead of trying to play Good Corp in other areas only to later sell/shut down their network. Basically like they did with their wireless network.

I wish they did that, i really do. I'd love for them to build gigabit networks everywhere and then sold them. In the end, the user would still have fiber instead of shitty obsolete copper infrastructures.
clos000

join:2012-12-31

Re: Japan vs United States

They have Google Fiber built for the Stanford dormitories and staff housing. City of Palo Alto axed their fiber build out because they deemed it was too expensive. (whether that was because of backdoor deals with Comcast, we'll never know)
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
WTF ? Decent ? So when the obvious is pointed out that even in relatively same population density we come NOWHERE close in speed, price and quality of service, we get the "decent" vague reference.

$100+ for 12 M/b business class is nowhere close to $50/2 Gbps.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Japan vs United States

I have 50Mb service with 150Mb upgrades for the tier already being rolled out in other markets (SoCal is just the last to get anything). Meanwhile how many of Japan's 130M residents will actually be able to get this 2Gb service?

Should we compare ourselves to the world based on Google Fiber? Of course not and you can't compare us to Japan based on this niche product. Go to Kuzumaki or Katagami and see if you can get this 2Gb service or anything close.
--
Nocchi rules.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX

Re: Japan vs United States

said by skeechan:

Meanwhile how many of Japan's 130M residents will actually be able to get this 2Gb service?

More than US residents getting the Google Fiber service.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
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1 edit

Re: Japan vs United States

Says who? You have zero clue as to who qualifies for Nuro. They are targeting specific blocks and apartment buildings. Not everyone in Chiba is going to have it available. And even if it is more, so what? If 10 people or 5 people can get it...so what?

Not everyone in Japan can get decent Internet service no matter how many myths you have read.
--
Nocchi rules.

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by WernerSchutz:

WTF ? Decent ? So when the obvious is pointed out that even in relatively same population density we come NOWHERE close in speed, price and quality of service, we get the "decent" vague reference.

$100+ for 12 M/b business class is nowhere close to $50/2 Gbps.

What I am talking about in my post is why the US has slower broadband compared to other smaller more thickly settled countries. And you are posting from Texas, which is very rural. While last mile networks are easy to upgrade, they're only as good as the backhaul between them and the network. So if you have to upgrade a 300 mile fiber link to support faster speeds in the community you are wiring, then you have to look at the feasibility of upgrading that backhaul. You can have gigabyte fiber to the home but if the network backhaul can't handle it, then you have to upgrade the backhaul before you upgrade the last mile.
--
I've experienced ImOn (when they were McLeod USA), Mediacom, Comcast, and Time Warner and I currently have DirecTV. They are much better than broadcast TV.

I have not and will not cut the cord.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Japan vs United States

If we banned DSL tomorrow, we would shoot up on the speed lists. Meanwhile those lists only show the tiers people are choosing to buy, not what is available. If 150Mb is available but people choose to buy the 5Mb tier, the 5Mb tier speed is what is reported.
--
Nocchi rules.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
Yup, the issue is that I am posting from Texas, never mind the lousy broadband support in NYC. Any more strawman arguments ?

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

You can get FiOS in NYC, what are you crying about?
--
Nocchi rules.

LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

Re: Japan vs United States

You can "get" FiOS in a lot of cities. Doesn't mean it's available to everyone in these cities lol

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Which is exactly my point, neither is this service in Japan.
--
Nocchi rules.

LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX

Re: Japan vs United States

I was agreeing with you :X

LightS
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Greenville, TX
Then how come the larger cities here (Houston, Dallas, etc) don't have widespread fiber?

Last mile networks are actually not easy to upgrade. ISPs frequently have caching servers that keep your data from getting to the public net, and other measures. Backhaul may be outdated, but hey, that's a problem that will need to be faced either way.
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
Choices between slow, expensive, capped shitty providers are still going to produce a slow, expensive, capped shitty service due to collusion agreements.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Get back to us when you get 2GBps for $50ish. Or even 1GBpbs. Or even 500mbps, or even 250mbps.

We won't hold our breath.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
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·Verizon FiOS

Re: Japan vs United States

Get back to us with this sees deployment anywhere because that isn't what is happening in Japan. Brush up on your Kanji and read the disclaimers on virtually every page of the service. This isn't a dedicated service, it is a shared service that is being wired to select blocks and apartment buildings only. They aren't trenching every street in Chiba. If no one else signed up, a resident may see 2Gb across their entire household but if they end up selling the 32 or 64 shares, suddenly 2Gb doesn't look like much.
--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Japan vs United States

Where's our shared services to Apartment and housing complexes? They're small areas, densely populated, right?

NM. It's all geographic.

Excuse.
Excuse.
Excuse.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Anywhere there is FiOS. How fast do you think 32-64 share GPON is going to be? Meanwhile why are you not complaining about their evil cherry picking?

--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Japan vs United States

Misdirection, much? Irrelevant? False assumption?

It's an excuse. "We can't do it in the USA. It's too hard. Competition is evil. Now pay up!"
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Sure, don't let facts or common sense get in the way of your well debunked and tired narrative.

Meanwhile if some one did it you would whine about cherry picking. There is no pleasing the complainers.
--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Japan vs United States

Tired narrative, indeed, Mr. Broken record.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Bitch bitch bitch. It is old.
--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Tired narrative, indeed. Your monitor a mirror?

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
Toyko has about 2.5 times the population of New York city, which is why a "large" 225 sq ft studio apt goes for $1500 a month. (parking, management fees, and key fees are among the extra$ ).
If you can find a room mate (hopefully someone you don't mind sleeping VERY close to) you might get a deluxe 450Sq ft with a window for $2700 and up.
San Francisco (in the city) has half the density and San Jose/Cupertino/ mountain view are practically uninhabited wildlands.
You CAN"T compare major city densities in first world asia to anywhere in the US.
IE Hong Kong (I know, a broadband mecca) has 10 times the density of LA

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Depends on where in Tokyo. 225sqft isn't 1500/mo anywhere I have seen and isn't typical.
--
Nocchi rules.

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Japan vs United States

Try googling apts for rent toyko top 4 links of relatively new (10 years or less) gave similar results.
Obviously locals or those with family connections might save some/find better spaces over these brokerage offerings, but as a comparison same search in NY and LA offer more space for similar prices.
Americans just don't know how much more private space we have as individuals compared to most other first world city dwellers.

And yes I have lived with my wife in a small 520 SQ FT apt way back when I was in school, and that's one reason I went for acreage when I bought my home.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Only thick in their city councils.
--
Nocchi rules.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA
Iowa is actually ahead of many states in terms of deploying faster speeds to rural areas. NetINS has a pretty robust network for delivering internet to rural cooperatives and independent operators and their network covers much of the state. They provide internet services for probably close to 100 ISPs in Iowa.

panhead20

@pacbell.net
So when will the urban areas of the US be wired for Gbps service at AFFORDABLE rates?

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2

Re: Japan vs United States

Probably around the same time urban Japan is...a week from never.
--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

2 recommendations

This same excuse comes up over and over.

When we're finally behind Siberia, Africa, Antarctica and other areas maybe people will finally realize this excuse for what it is. An excuse.

There are plenty of areas in the USA with comparable population density to many countries that have much higher speeds available at affordable and common rates, and yet here, not so.

The main factor is not urban population density. It is regulatory capture and pro-business policy, anti-competition strategy and lobbyist influence at it's finest.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

Re: Japan vs United States

If Verizon did that here in 1 or 2 highly populated and affluent areas like we see with this, everyone here, including you, would be screaming about redlining just as they always do.

Funny no one seems to care when other's cherry pick.
--
Nocchi rules.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Japan vs United States

Some people insist on defending mediocrity, for reasons of their own.... the 3 largest are: 1) Profit motive, they benefit directly from the financial windfall the flawed system generates for a few. 2) Defense of a misconception of some failing political ideology. 3) "Loyalty" for a company or choice they have made, where they tie their own decision to a company (And therefore, it must be awesome, because they use it) and defend it to the bitter end.

So whatever the reason, it still doesn't change the fact: IT'S AN EXCUSE.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Eddy120876

join:2009-02-16
Bronx, NY

1 recommendation

It always goes back to 'hey we are bigger the they are" yet they don't stop and think. Wait why are we the last ones to get great speed at a great rate? simple because they believe that lie about population and distance that telcos keep harping about. Had that mentality been during the transcontinental rail, telephone or highway construction period half of this country would still be using the telegraph and stage coaches because they were good enough and you didn't need more. We need to stop thinking short term and think long term. Specially when it comes to the internet and fiber deployment. Because we can't keep lagging behind while the rest of the world leaves us in the dust.

••••••••••
kerya666

join:2002-12-20
Valrico, FL

1 recommendation

...So where is the magical 2Gbps/$50 in densely populated, large city areas like NYC area(27,012 per sq m), San Francisco (17,179 per sq mi), Boston (12,793 per sq mi) ?

Land mass means nothing as majority of the people live in urban areas. Sorry, sounds like a whole bunch of excuses.

Running cable in the open non-congested country is actually very easy since there are rarely any conflicts with existing utilities. So you just directional bore your heart out for miles.

From my experience inside dense cities: you have many issues that at times requires costly engineering work and relocation of existing utilities in conflict. Just because it is shorter distance does not always mean easier job.