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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

1 edit

Fido adopts "tab" marketing gimmick

So this isn't exactly super new info (happened two weeks ago), but Fido is making a big deal about how they've gotten rid of contracts and switched to "tabs". What does this mean in practice?

Nothing.

It's a name change only. They call it a "Tab24", but it behaves exactly the same in every way to the previous 24-month contract. As in the tab value starts at the price of your discount, and each month they take off 1/24th of it.

Tab reductions are NOT based on your monthly bill, nor do you save any money when you finish paying it off.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable

Re: Fido adops "tab" marketing gimmick

I still don't see anything wrong, both the carriers and consumers are to blame for contracts (whether they're called that or not).

Most don't want to buy (or can't afford) to buy a phone out right at full price.

Anyone with any financial sense would see that buying a phone out right and saving on the monthly rate is the proper way to go, but this North America, people love to live on credit.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
reply to Guspaz
I don't see any problem with this, that's the only way to get a subsidized device.

If the big 3's main brands would adopt this rather than the bullshit 3 year terms, it would be a good change for the customer.
--


GBerry

join:2011-06-12
Guelph, ON
reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:

I still don't see anything wrong, both the carriers and consumers are to blame for contracts (whether they're called that or not).

Most don't want to buy (or can't afford) to buy a phone out right at full price.

Anyone with any financial sense would see that buying a phone out right and saving on the monthly rate is the proper way to go, but this North America, people love to live on credit.

Actually, with the current market, buying your phone is usually the wrong way to go for most people. Most carriers don't provide a discount for buying your phone outright, thus there are no savings. They like people who BYOD because it is more money in their pocket. Should you purchase you will incur a large immediate expenditure. Those who go on contract receive their device after the 2-3 years. Since their initial purchase was discounted, they have paid less than the person who bought it outright.

Even in the idealized market where service fees and handset finance were separate line items (thus giving incentive to BYOD), it may still be financially viable to go on contract. As long as you aren't paying more for your phone over the life of a contract, monthly instalments give you greater flexibility with your income. Of course, the trade-off is your inability to leave the carrier. Should you move and be out of service, you would have to pay a cancellation fee which would be greater than the cost of your phone.

If you were given the option of paying for a car outright or financed over 36 months for 0%, which would you take? You'd finance it because even if you had the purchase price in the bank, you could invest that money for a return and presumably earn more income. Of course this involves more financial planning since any disruption to your income could potentially result in you missing payments.

Viper359
Premium
join:2006-09-17
Scarborough, ON
Why would I slap out my money up front for a device, since I don't know of a single carrier in Canada that gives cheaper plans for buying your device outright. Doing that, just puts more money in their pocket each month, since now they aren't paying for a phone. Forget that.


cybersaga

join:2011-12-19
Welland, ON
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
+1

In fact, just about the only way to get a discounted plan is to sign a contract, which then comes with a discounted or free phone. I preferred to sign 1-year contracts as it enabled me to renegotiate regularly. Also, I was waiting till WIND got better service in my area, which they have now so we jumped ship (from Telus).


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to GBerry
said by GBerry:

said by TypeS:

I still don't see anything wrong, both the carriers and consumers are to blame for contracts (whether they're called that or not).

Most don't want to buy (or can't afford) to buy a phone out right at full price.

Anyone with any financial sense would see that buying a phone out right and saving on the monthly rate is the proper way to go, but this North America, people love to live on credit.

Actually, with the current market, buying your phone is usually the wrong way to go for most people. Most carriers don't provide a discount for buying your phone outright, thus there are no savings. They like people who BYOD because it is more money in their pocket. Should you purchase you will incur a large immediate expenditure. Those who go on contract receive their device after the 2-3 years. Since their initial purchase was discounted, they have paid less than the person who bought it outright.

Even in the idealized market where service fees and handset finance were separate line items (thus giving incentive to BYOD), it may still be financially viable to go on contract. As long as you aren't paying more for your phone over the life of a contract, monthly instalments give you greater flexibility with your income. Of course, the trade-off is your inability to leave the carrier. Should you move and be out of service, you would have to pay a cancellation fee which would be greater than the cost of your phone.

If you were given the option of paying for a car outright or financed over 36 months for 0%, which would you take? You'd finance it because even if you had the purchase price in the bank, you could invest that money for a return and presumably earn more income. Of course this involves more financial planning since any disruption to your income could potentially result in you missing payments.

I have been told if you don't opt for a subsidized phone, Rogers and Bell will actually give you lower rates, although you need to ask them otherwise they won't offer them at all.

Btw, if the cost of phone is spread over a long period of time, I'd expect one to paying more than the purchase price of the phone. It's simply fair to pay a certain amount for the convince of financing.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
The problem isn't so much the tab system (although there's a few major flaws I'll mention in a minute), but that they're promoting it like it's different.

So the flaws are this:

1) Somebody paying $39/mth and somebody paying $60/mth see their tabs reduced by the same amount

2) When the tab is fully paid off, the customer's monthly bill is not reduced by the tab monthly payoff rate.

The Tab24 has a maximum limit of $450 (they say $400, and yet the phones page has $450 phones for $0 on Tab24), which means $18.75 reduced from the tab each month. By this logic, the person who pays $39/mth on a Tab24 should see their bill reduced to $20.25/mth after 24 months. This does not happen.

3) The tab discounts are arbitrary and inconsistent. The SGS2 gets a $450 discount, the SGS3 gets a $300 discount, the N4 gets a $325 discount, the Z10 gets a $250 discount, and the iPhone 5 only qualifies for Tab36 with a $619 discount (despite that not being the same per-month, and there being no lesser Tab24 discount for it).

How this should be resolved is:

1) Tabs have a fixed 15 * number_of_months discount
2) Tabs are all paid off at $15 per month.
3) Tab payments are above and beyond monthly plan pricing. $30 plan plus $15 tab is $45 a month. No more tab to pay off? $30 a month.

This is actually how some carriers do it. T-Mobile's new method works like this I believe, and Singapore carriers do the same.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:

I have been told if you don't opt for a subsidized phone, Rogers and Bell will actually give you lower rates, although you need to ask them otherwise they won't offer them at all.

Have you actually tried this for yourself? DSL_Ricer tried and they refused.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
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I've never tried because I always grab the popular model subsidized and resell it to someone looking for a cheaper full priced or phone. Or sometimes unlock it and eBay it.

But I believe it was J E F F that told me if I let my contract expire,I can request a lower monthly rate.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
reply to TypeS
said by TypeS:

Most don't want to buy (or can't afford) to buy a phone out right at full price.

Anyone with any financial sense would see that buying a phone out right and saving on the monthly rate is the proper way to go, but this North America, people love to live on credit.

It's not that people don't want to buy phones outright. It's that carriers give no rebate when you bring your own phone.
Also except the Nexus 4, no smartphone can be bought at a reasonable price outright.
Just take the $450 SGS2 from fido. Is it really worth more than the Nexus 4? Of course not. But they inflate the value of the phone so that you need to pay a higher price if you break your contract. I mean if you break your tab, because contracts no longer exist and you are free to leave when you want, right?
I bet we will have $1000 phones soon. With $800 tabs.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
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It's actually not the carriers inflating the price of the phone, I doubt they make a significant profit on most high profile phones in the first 6 months that they're out. It's always the manufacturer of that phone that is taking home the largest slice of profits since thats their main revenue source. The Nexus is cheap because that is Google's goal.

To my knowledge, the fees for cancelling early have always been flat no matter what phone you purchase, with Rogers its $20 a month left on your contract up to $400.


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

said by TypeS:

I have been told if you don't opt for a subsidized phone, Rogers and Bell will actually give you lower rates, although you need to ask them otherwise they won't offer them at all.

Have you actually tried this for yourself? DSL_Ricer tried and they refused.

Yeah, I've been always trying to get an extra discount as I haven't bought a phone from Fido in over 7 years or so.... contract ended last week and attempted 2 calls to get something decent, got crap both times. :\


alienzzz
Kill Bell

join:2011-02-17
Verdun, QC
reply to Guspaz
Seems they have mostly renamed "contract" into "tab" and that's about it. Which is funny, since they spent so much time advertising how bad tabs were and how much better their contracts were.

When the IPhone 4 (yes 4, not 4s) came out I had one year left on my contract so I chose to upgrade the phone early. So with the leftover year they added 3 years for the IPhone hence giving me a 4 year contract. I still have 1 year left on that one before I can upgrade.

I wonder how it would work with the tab thingy. If I were to buy an IPhone 5 they'd give me another lovely tab48, I bet.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
reply to TypeS
It's hard to tell who's making the profit as you can't buy a phone from Samsung, Nokia, RIM or Sony. Only Apple and Google sell phones carrier-free in Canada. Apple is known to have the biggest profit margin of the industry. Google sell its phone for less than the carriers. And not all carriers sell it for the same price, which makes me beleive that some make more profit than others.
Often phones drop to 0$ on contract within the first 6 months. The no-contract price always remains the same, which shouldn't happen in a competitive market.

Cancelling fees are now the balance on your phone (as mandated by law in Quebec and Manitoba, which made carriers adopt the policy or something close Canada-wide). In certain cases that can be more than $400. But in most cases it's less than $400 or $20/month.

Gered

join:2012-11-09
Canada
reply to Viper359
FYI, Koodo gives 10% off your monthly cost if you bring your own device. However, doing this means you don't build up a tab. I'm not sure on the specifics of this though, as I kind of zoned out a bit while they were explaining the tab thing to me (I always day-1 purchase Nexus devices, so a tab is of little use to me).


tenpercntoff

@teksavvy.com
reply to zorxd
Actually some carries do offer 10% discounts on monthly plans for people with BYOD.

Example:
Telus:
»www.telusmobility.com/en/ON/brin ··· ex.shtml

Koodo:
»koodomobile.com/en/on/switch2koo ··· do.shtml

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
So instead of getting a $13.88 subsidy each month on your $50 plan, you get a $5 rebate. Better than nothing, but still not fair.

Koodo is interesting however, as you get the same 10% no matter if you use it to pay your tab or as a rebate on your plan.

jack man

join:2011-03-25
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to Guspaz
Does the new Fido Tab keep accumulating after its paid off (or go from a negative to a positive balance)?

I understand that when the Koodo Tab gets paid off (10% of each bill) the value gets added into your Tab to use to buy your next phone.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
No, the Fido Tab does not accumulate. You do still get Fido Dollars (4% of your monthly bill) to spend on a new phone, though. They accumulate every month regardless of tab or contract status.

Fido no longer adds to the contract length. When I bought my 4S (on launch), they required me to pay the ETF to start a fresh 3 years. Similarly, the documentation on Tab24 says that if you want to buy a new phone on the Tab24, you pay off the remaining Tab24 balance and then the new phone goes on it.

TypeS: They are inflating the price of the phone, how else do you explain the Tab24 discount ranging from $250 to $450 for the same 24 months? I would posit that the bigger the discount, the bigger the carrier markup.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
reply to Guspaz
I've been with Koodo for a little while now. When I first signed on I bought my phone outright because I wanted to be able to move if I chose to do so. After being with them for a little over a year, I had enough "tab balance" (accumulated tab + tab credit) to get an SGS2X with no cost to me. Had $100 tab built up and took $150 tab credit.

So $250 is what Koodo is selling a SGS2. Fido is definitely inflating the price if they are selling it for $450.

FWIW, I find Koodo very reasonable both in their phone pricing and the way their tab works. I've only had 2 bills since the switch and am already down to $135 left owing on the phone.

DSL_Ricer
Premium
join:2007-07-22
kudos:3
reply to tenpercntoff
Bell has the 10% BYOD discount too.

However, if you look at the discount on the claimed value of the phone, it's usually much greater than 10% of the plan cost. Trying a configuration on Bell's site, I managed to get it up to >37% (a 45$/month plan coves 600$ of inducement plus a waived activation fee that I didn't count)

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Guspaz
I have Wind, and their Tab is fairly fair when subsidizing your phone. Based on the full buy out price for the phone, they put it on tab.. They take 10% off per bill until you reach year 3. What ever is left, they cancel it out. If you leave early, you only owe what is left on the tab, no extra fees. That's reasonable in my view if you are subsidizing your phone.

grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1
reply to rednekcowboy
said by rednekcowboy:

So $250 is what Koodo is selling a SGS2. Fido is definitely inflating the price if they are selling it for $450.

I was just going to post that.

I think it's worth mentioning that Koodo's Galaxy SII X supports a maximum of DC-HSPA+ (42Mbps) while Fido's Galaxy SII LTE supports... LTE (100Mbps?). Other than that, I think they might be identical (Snapdragon S3 system on a chip, 4.5" screen, 480x800 screen resolution, etc.). So taking the addition of LTE into consideration, we could assume that Fido's SGSII LTE is worth about $300 - $325, so whatever it costs them, I'm sure they making quite a bit on it.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
They're not the same phone, in any event, and probably don't have the same licensing fees for wireless stuff, so they're not necessarily comparable. But some other phones are:

Koodo Nexus 4: $400
Fido Nexus 4: $425

Koodo SGS3: $550
Fido SGS3: $550

Koodo Galaxy Ace 2X: $150
Fido Galaxy Ace 2X: $225

Koodo LG Optimus 3: $100
Fido LG Optimus 3: $125

Koodo Z10: $550
Fido Z10: $600

And Fido doesn't sell the iPhone without a tab, so compare Koodo to Apple:

Koodo iPhone 5 16GB: $670
Apple iPhone 5 16GB: $699

The conclusion? Koodo is very aggressive with their phone pricing, especially on their lower end devices, where they have some fantastic deals compared to Fido. The downside is that Fido's tab seems to go up to $450ish while Koodo only does $150.

The end result is probably that you're better off with Koodo for low-end devices, and Fido for high-end devices. Koodo doesn't even sell the higher-end models of the iPhone 5, only the 16GB. Koodo and Fido's plans are comparable, so they don't make sense if you want to get a new iPhone or Nexus 4 every two or three years, IMO, but if you want a cheap smartphone that you'll keep forever, they make way more sense.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
My post was more to compare tab methodologies and how well I find Koodo's works.

FWIW, if you have banked tab with Koodo, you can use more than 150, I actually used 250 worth of tab to get my SII X and the S2 X and the S2 LTE are essentially the exact same phone with the exception one is LTE and one isn't. Same processor, same ram, same, same, same. I guess if you want to pay $200 for LTE accessibility you'd be better to go with FIDO


Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to Guspaz
What I find ironic is that a couple of years back, Fido had a marketing campaign explaining why contracts were better than tabs.


Spare

join:2004-04-14
min2p6

1 edit
reply to Guspaz
It all depends on you situation and what you require from a phone and long distance plans. As most smart phone plans don't come with any long distance and a monthly rate that suck's for three years. In my case taking an iphone on koodo tab. and paying the bucks up front for the phone and comparing getting on contract for three years save's me like $250 a year for three year comparable contract term

And well comparing to fido to koodo the networks are two different worlds. From my experience in Ontario , Rogers is fine for urban core area. But doing a lot of off the path stuff outside of urban areas makes it totally useless. where as the teleus bell net work being much superior off the beatin' path as well as being just as good in the urban core


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Guspaz
Banked tab: Fido will give you about $100 towards a new phone in Fido Dollars on a $70/mth plan and a 36 month contract; you get 4% of your subscription back as fido dollars. This is above and beyond any tab/contract/discount/etc.

Long distance: Fido has unlimited Canadian long distance on all postpaid plans. Even their cheapest ones. Generally voice plans are great these days, it's the data plans that still suck universally. My $30-for-6GB plan that was first offered half a decade ago in 2008? Still better than any current offer, even including specials or LTE (which should have dramatically lower per-gig costs).

Rural coverage: I get zero reception (occasionally 1-bar-no-data) at Fiddler Lake (Rogers shows full coverage on their map, which is wrong). Bellus gets 5 bars full speed data coverage in the same area. It's annoying since I end up spending a few weekends there a year.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


ohmer

join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
kudos:1
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

said by TypeS:

I have been told if you don't opt for a subsidized phone, Rogers and Bell will actually give you lower rates, although you need to ask them otherwise they won't offer them at all.

Have you actually tried this for yourself? DSL_Ricer tried and they refused.

Many operators give 10% off: Telus, Bhell, Virgin Mobile, Koodo.

For others, you need to talk to retentions department.

My contract with Rogers expired recently. I called to cancel but they offered me their 55$ plan at only 25$/mo for 1 year with no contract (I can cancel any time). When a better promo will be available with another operator, I will just call again and cancel if they don't give me what I want. Contract just sucks!