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Ken1943
join:2001-12-30
Brighton, CO

1 recommendation

Ken1943 to antdude

Member

to antdude

Re: House passes controversial "cybersecurity" bill CI

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned. I'm sure if I wrote 'my neighbor screwed my goat' nobody would give a crap. They monitor for certain 'key' words which 99% of us don't even use.

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

1 recommendation

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by Ken1943:

They monitor for certain 'key' words which 99% of us don't even use.

Really?

»Re: Homeland Security words to avoid
The Antihero
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

The Antihero to Ken1943

Member

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned.

Everyone has something to hide. We're all guilty of something if you look hard enough.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

1 recommendation

MaynardKrebs to Ken1943

Premium Member

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned. I'm sure if I wrote 'my neighbor screwed my goat' nobody would give a crap. They monitor for certain 'key' words which 99% of us don't even use.

Why don't you share that list of words with us?

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

2 recommendations

StuartMW to The Antihero

Premium Member

to The Antihero
said by The Antihero:

We're all guilty of something if you look hard enough.

quote:
Dr. Ferris smiled. "Don't you suppose we knew it?" he said, his tone suggesting that he was letting his patent-leather hair down to impress a fellow criminal by a display of superior cunning. "We've waited a long time to get something on you. You honest men are such a problem and such a headache. But we knew you'd slip sooner or later—and this is just what we wanted."

"You seem to be pleased about it."

"Don't I have good reason to be?"

"But, after all, I did break one of your laws."

"Well, what do you think they're for?"
Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand (1957)

Ken1943
join:2001-12-30
Brighton, CO

3 edits

1 recommendation

Ken1943 to The Antihero

Member

to The Antihero
Most of us are not even in the area of concern of what they are looking at.
Come on, since 9/11 (I was there) security has really tightened up and I can understand why.

Then again, Boston proves things are not perfect.

By the way, the pictures you see of tower two coming down are much slower than seeing it happen.

If I listened to my boss, I would have been on the 20th floor of tower two repairing a telephone system. Another tech would have been installing a telephone system and a high school buddy was on a floor when tower one was hit.
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

1 recommendation

OZO

Premium Member

said by Ken1943:

Come on, since 9/11 (I was there) security has really tightened up and I can understand why.

Then again, Boston proves things are not perfect.

Then tighten thing up even more, right? Exactly as those who did it wanted...

StuartMW
Premium Member
join:2000-08-06

StuartMW

Premium Member

said by OZO:

Then tighten thing up even more, right?

/sarcasm on

Not to worry. They're just trying to keep you safe. Really!

You can trust them. They're from the gummint!

/sarcasm off

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS to Ken1943

MVM

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

Most of us are not even in the area of concern of what they are looking at.

Are you certain? White, fundamentally religious, owns guns, politically conservative? Isn't that the profile many are looking at for the perpetrators of the Boston Marathon bombing?

FF4m3
@rr.com

FF4m3 to Ken1943

Anon

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned.

Why Privacy Matters Even if You Have 'Nothing to Hide' - May 15, 2011 by Daniel J. Solove:
Daniel J. Solove is a professor of law at George Washington University. This essay is an excerpt from his new book, Nothing to Hide: The False Tradeoff Between Privacy and Security, published this month by Yale University Press.

When the government gathers or analyzes personal information, many people say they're not worried. "I've got nothing to hide," they declare. "Only if you're doing something wrong should you worry, and then you don't deserve to keep it private."

The nothing-to-hide argument pervades discussions about privacy. The data-security expert Bruce Schneier calls it the "most common retort against privacy advocates."

The legal scholar Geoffrey Stone refers to it as an "all-too-common refrain."

In its most compelling form, it is an argument that the privacy interest is generally minimal, thus making the contest with security concerns a foreordained victory for security.

Commentators often attempt to refute the nothing-to-hide argument by pointing to things people want to hide. But the problem with the nothing-to-hide argument is the underlying assumption that privacy is about hiding bad things. By accepting this assumption, we concede far too much ground and invite an unproductive discussion about information that people would very likely want to hide.

As the computer-security specialist Schneier aptly notes, the nothing-to-hide argument stems from a faulty "premise that privacy is about hiding a wrong." Surveillance, for example, can inhibit such lawful activities as free speech, free association, and other First Amendment rights essential for democracy.

The deeper problem with the nothing-to-hide argument is that it myopically views privacy as a form of secrecy. In contrast, understanding privacy as a plurality of related issues demonstrates that the disclosure of bad things is just one among many difficulties caused by government security measures.

Another potential problem with the government's harvest of personal data is one I call exclusion. Exclusion occurs when people are prevented from having knowledge about how information about them is being used, and when they are barred from accessing and correcting errors in that data.

A related problem involves secondary use. Secondary use is the exploitation of data obtained for one purpose for an unrelated purpose without the subject's consent. How long will personal data be stored? How will the information be used? What could it be used for in the future? The potential uses of any piece of personal information are vast. Without limits on or accountability for how that information is used, it is hard for people to assess the dangers of the data's being in the government's control.

Yet another problem with government gathering and use of personal data is distortion. Although personal information can reveal quite a lot about people's personalities and activities, it often fails to reflect the whole person. It can paint a distorted picture, especially since records are reductive—they often capture information in a standardized format with many details omitted.

Those advancing the nothing-to-hide argument have in mind a particular kind of appalling privacy harm, one in which privacy is violated only when something deeply embarrassing or discrediting is revealed.

Privacy is often threatened not by a single egregious act but by the slow accretion of a series of relatively minor acts.

Privacy is rarely lost in one fell swoop. It is usually eroded over time, little bits dissolving almost imperceptibly until we finally begin to notice how much is gone.

The nothing-to-hide argument speaks to some problems but not to others. It represents a singular and narrow way of conceiving of privacy, and it wins by excluding consideration of the other problems often raised with government security measures. When engaged directly, the nothing-to-hide argument can ensnare, for it forces the debate to focus on its narrow understanding of privacy. But when confronted with the plurality of privacy problems implicated by government data collection and use beyond surveillance and disclosure, the nothing-to-hide argument, in the end, has nothing to say.

Much more at site.

Nothing to Hide:

Why should I care? I've done nothing wrong.

The definition of privacy that I like best is The right of an individual to choose what personal information is given to who and when.

Make sure you never, EVER let yourself say you have nothing to hide and if you ever hear someone else say it, slap them (or more specifically, share this page with them).

Consider that page shared with you.

Nothing to Hide: The False Tradeoff Between Privacy and Security

"If you've got nothing to hide," many people say, "you shouldn't worry about government surveillance." Others argue that we must sacrifice privacy for security.

In this concise and accessible book, Solove exposes the fallacies of many pro-security arguments that have skewed law and policy to favor security at the expense of privacy.

In clear, measured prose, Solove shows how the law of privacy has failed us in addressing these twin challenges, and proposes an innovative way forward.


La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

1 recommendation

La Luna to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by Ken1943:

Most of us are not even in the area of concern of what they are looking at.

Are you certain? White, fundamentally religious, owns guns, politically conservative? Isn't that the profile many are looking at for the perpetrators of the Boston Marathon bombing?

Nah, that's just Wolff Blitzer looking at that profile.

Xioden
Premium Member
join:2008-06-10
Monticello, NY

Xioden to Ken1943

Premium Member

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

Most of us are not even in the area of concern of what they are looking at.
Come on, since 9/11 (I was there) security has really tightened up and I can understand why.

Then again, Boston proves things are not perfect.

said by »www.balloon-juice.com/20 ··· oliticss :

I’m safe. You are safe. 99.999999% of the country is safe. But there never is a completely safe, and there never will be... I refuse to give up another right to prevent another 'Boston.' The bomber isn't the only one who wants you to be afraid. Remember that.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to La Luna

MVM

to La Luna
said by La Luna:

Nah, that's just Wolff Blitzer looking at that profile.

Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph, among others, fit that profile. "Bob" would be foolish not to look at it.

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

La Luna

Premium Member

I forgot the .

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

2 recommendations

John Galt6 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Why don't you share that list of words with us?

Ummm..OK

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Chaplain
So It Goes
Premium Member
join:2002-10-11
USA

Chaplain

Premium Member

Sorry, I had to laugh at "joe".

javaMan
The Dude abides.
MVM
join:2002-07-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

1 edit

4 recommendations

javaMan to Ken1943

MVM

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned. I'm sure if I wrote 'my neighbor screwed my goat' nobody would give a crap. They monitor for certain 'key' words which 99% of us don't even use.

What they monitor isn't really the issue. And it isn't even an issue about whether you need to hide anything. It's about whether someone, in some official capacity, decides that what you say or think or do makes you someone worth watching and listening to in their eyes.

I don't know how old you are but I was around in the 60's when the FBI et.al. decided that what hundreds and thousands of people thought was dangerous. They compiled lists and files, eavesdropped, broke into homes and businesses and in general ran roughshod over the rights of its citizens. It is now 50 years later and the technological advances make the capabilities of those days pale in comparison. Further, we are now in a situation where the government not only condones this kind of action but endorses it.

You may not have anything to hide but I assure you, you have something to fear. Whether you understand it or not.

Sith HMP
I Did What?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-25
Bloomington, IL

3 edits

Sith HMP to Ken1943

Premium Member

to Ken1943
Who exactly decides whether or not something I am doing is "wrong" or not and to what degree?

Side note: "quiche" is on that list. I knew there was something off about that stuff. So bad, evidently, it's on there twice.

Edit; 192.47.242.7 is on that list. Where does it lead? I'm afraid to look or I will end up......aww damn.

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates to Ken1943

Premium Member

to Ken1943
said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned.

Anyone who can say that doesn't remember the old Soviet bloc countries and the "re-education" camps.
OZO
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

OZO

Premium Member

It was far away and in the US nobody cares about another countries. But here is example from our own history - McCarthyism.

chrisretusn
Retired
Premium Member
join:2007-08-13
Philippines

chrisretusn to goalieskates

Premium Member

to goalieskates
said by goalieskates:

said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned.

Anyone who can say that doesn't remember the old Soviet bloc countries and the "re-education" camps.

So you remember?

Blackbird
Built for Speed
Premium Member
join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN

Blackbird to Sith HMP

Premium Member

to Sith HMP
said by Sith HMP:

Who exactly decides whether or not something I am doing is "wrong" or not and to what degree? ...

And therein lies the trap! If the powers-that-be can get citizens to give up their foundational, Constitutional right to speak free from general official snooping and harassment with respect to a certain set of "wrong" or "suspicious" crisis-driven words used today, those word lists can (and will) be easily expanded tomorrow. Every time political administrations change, the new dominant powers add their own words to the lists, reflecting their hostility toward members roughly grouped among the opposition. The comb rakes back and forth... but the overall power-grabbing and intrusiveness only grow regardless - the process never gets rolled back as the new "leaders" come to town. Until liberals and conservatives all come to realize this whole business is ultimately destructive to the freedom of both groups, they'll be fodder for clever authoritarian manipulation of the crises of the day. Either the citizens will keep the government in chains or the government will place the citizens in chains. Chains, whether fashioned by Fascists, Communists, dictators, Socialists, Imperialists, or whatever "ism" rises to power will remain chains, regardless.

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates to chrisretusn

Premium Member

to chrisretusn
said by chrisretusn:

said by goalieskates:

said by Ken1943:

People with nothing to hide don't have to be concerned.

Anyone who can say that doesn't remember the old Soviet bloc countries and the "re-education" camps.

So you remember?

Indeed I do.