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LastDon

join:2002-08-13

using Ebox in ontario.. how to get around language restrict.

I am using ebox in ontario..
and some sites that my sister uses like urbanoutfitters.com default right to some quebec language page and you can't see the site.

How can i get around this? My ip says i am in quebec is this something that ebox has to do? or am i screwed ?



JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:9

The websites are using your geolocation data based on your IP, there is no way around this unless you use a VPN or a proxy to change your IP to an English province.



Pauline M

@videotron.ca
reply to LastDon

Switch to a non-Quebec ISP that retailers do not block. Other than that, use a proxy or VPN.

People using Ebox outside of Quebec should be aware that many Canadian retailers block Quebec IP's. So the answer is clear. Change ISP.

Or, if Ebox wishes to flourish outside of Quebec, and service people outside of Quebec, they should set something up for non-Quebeckers.


Nitra

join:2011-09-15
Montreal
reply to LastDon

I've only ever seen urbanoutfitters doing this. I you'd think after years they'd get off their asses and fix their site.


df909

join:2013-03-05
Canada
reply to LastDon

said by LastDon:

I am using ebox in ontario..
and some sites that my sister uses like urbanoutfitters.com default right to some quebec language page and you can't see the site.

How can i get around this? My ip says i am in quebec is this something that ebox has to do? or am i screwed ?

Contact urbanoutfitters about this problem. They probably don't know it exists.


Pauline M

@videotron.ca
reply to Nitra

said by Nitra:

I've only ever seen urbanoutfitters doing this. I you'd think after years they'd get off their asses and fix their site.

It's a few companies. Not just them.


diskace
Electronic Box CEO
Premium,VIP
join:2002-02-21
reply to Pauline M

said by Pauline M :

Switch to a non-Quebec ISP that retailers do not block. Other than that, use a proxy or VPN.

People using Ebox outside of Quebec should be aware that many Canadian retailers block Quebec IP's. So the answer is clear. Change ISP.

Or, if Ebox wishes to flourish outside of Quebec, and service people outside of Quebec, they should set something up for non-Quebeckers.

Comon what is this ? What about complaining to the site owner who use an outdated arin-based geolocation tracking system. In this day of age ipv4 resources are extremely rare it would be difficult having a pool for each province. I am not against the idea but seriously what is up with this lately ?

We don't see this bitching for Ontario isp who serve clients in Quebec.
--
Electronic Box Inc. - Jean-Philippe Béïque
Ebox forum »ELECTRONICBOX


Pauline M

@videotron.ca

said by diskace:

said by Pauline M :

Or, if Ebox wishes to flourish outside of Quebec, and service people outside of Quebec, they should set something up for non-Quebeckers.

Comon what is this ? What about complaining to the site owner who use an outdated arin-based geolocation tracking system. In this day of age ipv4 resources are extremely rare it would be difficult having a pool for each province. I am not against the idea but seriously what is up with this lately ?

We don't see this bitching for Ontario isp who serve clients in Quebec.

That's the point of my post, Diskace.

Seems to me that A) some sort of language law, and/or 2) some bigoted companies can affect your sales out of province as a communications reseller.

In other words it seems you, being a Quebec provider, is disadvantaged.

I would be on the phone with the OLF to see if this is right if I were you since it is affecting your business and the service of your out of prov customers. This is what? The 4th or 5th person to make this complaint?

In the mid 90's I was involved with the first ever OLF website case (it involved MicroBytes on the west Island, I made the Montreal gazette ) and they had to pull their website down and make it bilingual, or keep it offline.

But the cases I am seeing here is a complete block of people based on geo-location (different from the OLF case I was involved in) and with people in Ontario who buy services from you. In other words, your business is being attacked and blocked.

As an owner I'd be on this and these bigoted companies.

Like I said in the other topic in the Ebox forum, I would call the OLF and see what is up with this. Something doesn't seem right here, yet the websites in Question all claim it's because of the french language charter. I don't know about that... This is very diff from what I was involved with. It doesn't seem right.

Even if the OLF states this is the way it has to be (which I doubt very much, but stuff could have changed since I was last involved w/ something like this in the 90's), then that means as a business, you can not properly serve people outside of Quebec. And you as a businessman in Quebec are disadvantaged. You may have some sort of case with this. It's discriminatory.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to LastDon

Every website is constantly telling me I live in Toronto and selecting the wrong province and city for me. I try to order pizza and the pizza site wants to show me the contact numbers for Toronto, movie theater listings want to show me Toronto listing, etc. Since IISPs can't afford to have PoPs in multiple cities, there's not much that can be done about this.

That said, under no circumstances should a language EVER be selected based on a geolocation. That's broken behaviour. The language setting should be defaulted to the user's browser language first, and then the user's selection on the website remembered via cookie.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to diskace

I have to agree with Diskace, if you do a geo locate on Rogers, you might find you are in Montreal.



Pauline M

@videotron.ca

said by elwoodblues:

I have to agree with Diskace, if you do a geo locate on Rogers, you might find you are in Montreal.

Unfortunatey, Diskace is on the losing end.

These companies blocking Quebec based IP's (or those that they think are Quebec based) protect themselves from OLF fines.

Diskace can maybe fight the OLF or the PQ Gov for change. Dunno...

Meanwhile, as it stands, if Ontario people want unblocked websites that the rest of the world gets, they have to change to a non-Quebec ISP. Easy as that. Diskace should be tossing this in the OLF and PQ's face.

It even makes me wonder if Ebox should have a big warning on their website for non-Quebec residents stating how buying their services in Ontario causes censored website.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to LastDon

It's not entirely clear that UrbanOutfitter's current site isn't a violation of the language laws.

If you visit the site in Quebec you get a single static page with both French and English, but it can be argued that the full website is available only in English (outside of Quebec) and is not available in French. I doubt anybody has tested it in court, but it's entirely possible that geoblocking Quebec users from accessing the English site does not avoid violation of the charter.

Don't get me wrong, I think the charter is dumb, but I'm not sure what UrbanOutfitters is doing complies with it either way.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



ooh Yes

@videotron.ca

said by Guspaz:

I doubt anybody has tested it in court, but it's entirely possible that geoblocking Quebec users from accessing the English site does not avoid violation of the charter.

Apparently it does. And like someone else said up above, they likely won't sell to a Quebecker from that site anyhow.

Similar has happened to a watchmaker in Hudson. He was threatened with fines. It hit court. OLF went to his home to make sure he didn't sell or repair watches to the Quebec public. He got off the hook for not catering to the people of Quebec (he catered internationally, well known watchmaker) and they look at his books going back for 1 year to verify he didn't sell to Quebec people.

HEH

There have been other instances of this as well.

Personally I have to laugh at this. But Ebox suffers. His users are censored. Nothing he can do short of creating an ANTI-OLF proxy like people do to circumvent blocks on the pirate bay in the UK. heh

Ebox should make people well aware of this though on his website. It isn't right that people buy a service then find out their Ontario connection is blocked because it's a quebec ISP. He should stick to only serving Quebec if he doesn't put up and anti-olf proxy.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to LastDon

But UrbanOutfitters DOES sell to Quebecers, they even list their Quebec stores on the website.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



ooh Yes

@videotron.ca

said by Guspaz:

But UrbanOutfitters DOES sell to Quebecers, they even list their Quebec stores on the website.

They operate in Quebec, thus why the language law kicks in. Which is likely why they block Quebecers. It's some american company who doesn't want to put the effort into any french marketing by having their entire site bilingual. I guess the effort/sales isn't worth the expense. Thus they block Quebec or get fined.

Email them and ask?

It was the same with the Hudson watchmaker, but he proved his case by opening his books showing he didn't service Quebeckers. But if he did (like Urban outfitters) he would have had a couple of options:
1. Take down the site (if in Quebec), Urban outfitters isn't HQ'd in Quebec.
2. Block Quebeckers so they don't see the offensive English marketing/web presence.
3. Make it bilingual (which he refused since he had no Quebec customers)
4. Block the main site to Quebecers, have some sort of small QC only web thing with only a fraction of the stuff.

If you operate a business in Quebec, all marketing material must be in both languages (french being predominant) or french only. Be it a coupon, sign, pamphlet, sign on the a side of a car or truck, or website.

I find it funny how this comes back to bite a Quebec ISP in the ass. Bet this was unexpected. It doesn't exactly put him on equal foot, eh? The OLF puts him at a disadvantage.

Anyhow, call the OLF on Monday and ask about this. I'm sure they are well aware of it.

zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to LastDon

The problem is urbanoutfitters.com
Not Ebox or the OQLF.

And it is false to say that many web sites block Quebec IP. This is the first one I see. And everyone who does that is an idiot.

There is a setting in every browser to select the language. There is no reason for a web site not to use this.
Crappy web sites such as Bell.ca ask for your language instead of just checking your browser's preferences.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

said by zorxd:

The problem is urbanoutfitters.com
Not Ebox or the OQLF.

And it is false to say that many web sites block Quebec IP. This is the first one I see. And everyone who does that is an idiot.

There is a setting in every browser to select the language. There is no reason for a web site not to use this.
Crappy web sites such as Bell.ca ask for your language instead of just checking your browser's preferences.

I'd have to agree, I haven't come across any yet either myself. I do find it funny that the OP states "a number of websites" but can only name one outright.

Take it as a pat on the back diskace. Your company has now become enough of a threat to have someone try and start a smear campaign against it.

This thread is a complete joke.


um no

@videotron.ca
reply to zorxd

Browser language means nothing. They want to ban all Quebecers. Not all francophones in Ontario or Manitoba (which is what your method would do). They want french people to buy. Just not Quebec french people because the OLF can and will fine them.

So banning by language is not an option. Has to be by prov (or in this case, geo-locatated IP, or even host-masks that are from Quebec).

said by zorxd:

The problem is urbanoutfitters.com
Not Ebox or the OQLF.

Yes, the problem is urbanoutfitters. They choose to not put in the money for french.

But the OLF isn't innocent either. They force this situation by telling companies they can't have that awful english language fall on the purity of french eyes so it has to be banned. These are OLF rules.

So, diskace is stuck in the middle of an American company who doesn't want to pay extra just for Quebec, and the OLF who give them the option of.. shutting down the website in Quebec

But, Ebox can put up an ANTI-OLF proxy for his non-Quebec customers. But it appears Ebox doesn't really care since they couldn't be bothered making a bypass for non-Quebec residents. So it's better not to use a Quebec ISP

And if he does do this, the hardcore french people will hate him.

He has a fun predicament.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rednekcowboy

said by rednekcowboy:

said by zorxd:

The problem is urbanoutfitters.com
Not Ebox or the OQLF.

And it is false to say that many web sites block Quebec IP. This is the first one I see. And everyone who does that is an idiot.

There is a setting in every browser to select the language. There is no reason for a web site not to use this.
Crappy web sites such as Bell.ca ask for your language instead of just checking your browser's preferences.

I'd have to agree, I haven't come across any yet either myself. I do find it funny that the OP states "a number of websites" but can only name one outright.

Take it as a pat on the back diskace. Your company has now become enough of a threat to have someone try and start a smear campaign against it.

This thread is a complete joke.

That's a pretty ridiculous assumption to make, that any of other ISPs other than incumbents would spend any marketing budget on a "smear campaign". And even the incumbents don't other than to have inbound CSRs lie when people inquire about the differences between their service and that of third party's.

The OP was looking for answers as to why he couldn't get to a specific website.

This is the first I have ever heard of something like this, retailers not wanting consumers in specific regions viewing their site (or entire site). Doesn't come as surprise though as how many Quebec governments have gone to great lengths to try and differentiate Quebec from the rest of Canada. Marois crusade to "save the French language" is rubbing big international retailers the wrong way (how the heck can the name Walmart be said in french? It's Walmart, an iconic name around the world).

Although the blame here seems to lie on the how the website is designed and programmed, the OP has a better chance switching provider (no offense to EBOX) than getting the website changed.


yeeep

@videotron.ca

said by TypeS:

the OP has a better chance switching provider (no offense to EBOX) than getting the website changed.

Which is the sad reality of it. OLF rules.


rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac

1 edit
reply to TypeS

said by TypeS:

That's a pretty ridiculous assumption to make, that any of other ISPs other than incumbents would spend any marketing budget on a "smear campaign". And even the incumbents don't other than to have inbound CSRs lie when people inquire about the differences between their service and that of third party's.

The OP was looking for answers as to why he couldn't get to a specific website.

UM no it's not, at all if you actually cared to read through the thread and I never singled out or even mentioned independants, I was thinking more the big guys, but whatever.

The OP said "some sites" mentioning only specifically one site
Others chimed in talking about multiple sites yet only the one in the OP has been mentioned in this whole thread.
Another mentioned how like about 9 of these threads have popped up in the last day or so all of them directed at ditching Ebox for a non-quebec ISP.

If that is not the start of a smear campaign, I don't know what is.....

FWIW, making a dozen threads on various forums would equate to $0 dollars spent for anyone and actually an effective form of taking a strike at one of your competitors.

Again, all of these threads should be closed as slanderous against Ebox. This has nothing to do with them. They did not cause this issue and it's not up to them to fix this issue. They do not have to nor should they not be forced to splash this across everywhere on their website like a "do not use us, we're from Quebec" sign.

To the OP, you want a way around this, use this for the single issue you are having:

»www.theproxyfree.com/
Expand your moderator at work


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to rednekcowboy

Re: using Ebox in ontario.. how to get around language restrict.

Creating threads would not be $0, you're implying some random private citizen would go through all that trouble. Ya ok... let me know when the sky isn't blue as well.

If an ISP did start a "smear campaign", they'd be paying someone for the hours they spent, I doubt there's that zealous to do it of their own will. Even the shill Mark77 on RFD is a Bell investor, so for him its in his best interest to bad mouth the Indies.

Whats so bad about negative posts about an ISP? TekSavvy gets them every day on these forums.

People get fed up, they get frustrated and don't want to understand the technological reasons behind the cause of their frustrations.

And this is an open and public forum that doesn't even require an account to post. Closing threads just because they rub your ISP the wrong way is just wrong. People should be allowed post their opinions (w/o the rants though IMO). We all read your thread about the excellent customer service diskace provided to you regarding your over usage issue. Kudos to EBOX going that far to get to the root of the issue and proving you were right. But that doesn't mean everyone will be as pleased with EBOX as you are. Just like not everyone is as pleased with TekSavvy as I am. Everyday people say TSI is a "sinking ship" or "customer service has gone way down hill" (I'll agree its degraded but as bad as some imply) but I don't agree with that, I've gotten nothing but good service from them, especially the ones on DSLr. You won't find me saying people disagreeing are out to smear TSI intentionally or ask threads to be closed. That's censorship.



Shrug

@videotron.ca

Personally, I'd like to see every ISP in canada block them for 48-hrs as a protest. It takes a real shithole of a company to want money from the people of a prov and even have stores in that prov, but refuse to offer them their website in their language.

If I was the OP i'd tell his sister that this bigoted company isn't deserving of her money and be thankful it's blocked.



rednekcowboy

join:2012-03-21
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to TypeS

said by TypeS:

Creating threads would not be $0, you're implying some random private citizen would go through all that trouble. Ya ok... let me know when the sky isn't blue as well.

If an ISP did start a "smear campaign", they'd be paying someone for the hours they spent, I doubt there's that zealous to do it of their own will. Even the shill Mark77 on RFD is a Bell investor, so for him its in his best interest to bad mouth the Indies.

Whats so bad about negative posts about an ISP? TekSavvy gets them every day on these forums.

People get fed up, they get frustrated and don't want to understand the technological reasons behind the cause of their frustrations.

And this is an open and public forum that doesn't even require an account to post. Closing threads just because they rub your ISP the wrong way is just wrong. People should be allowed post their opinions (w/o the rants though IMO). We all read your thread about the excellent customer service diskace provided to you regarding your over usage issue. Kudos to EBOX going that far to get to the root of the issue and proving you were right. But that doesn't mean everyone will be as pleased with EBOX as you are. Just like not everyone is as pleased with TekSavvy as I am. Everyday people say TSI is a "sinking ship" or "customer service has gone way down hill" (I'll agree its degraded but as bad as some imply) but I don't agree with that, I've gotten nothing but good service from them, especially the ones on DSLr. You won't find me saying people disagreeing are out to smear TSI intentionally or ask threads to be closed. That's censorship.

But that's just it. This has nothing to do with Ebox, it's not their issue nor is it something that is up to them to fix.

I have no problem with someone voicing a legitimate concern against an ISP, much like I did when I had issues with Ebox but to go shouting from the rooftops and telling people to ditch an ISP because they are from Quebec over an issue that said ISP has nothing to do with is ridiculous.

I wouldn't call this anything other than a smear campaign and yes, maybe $0 was stretching it a bit, but my point is that it is a very cost effective way to start a smear campaign and is done all the time by companies big and small.


TypeS

join:2012-12-17
London, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

But the issue would be resolved by switching ISPs yes? As unfortunate as it is, that is the reality. The sites design is at fault bu the technical aspect is creating the issue is created by the location of EBOX and its IP address pools it purchased. Is diskace said, it would un-economical for them buy a pool just for Ontario.

Expand your moderator at work

morisato

join:2008-03-16
Oshawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to TypeS

Re: using Ebox in ontario.. how to get around language restrict.

when i was On Ebox futureshop etc.. all insisted i was in quebec and Many websites made my default language french It was an annoyance but not the only reason i switched, the extra ping time of 15-20 ms was also part of it and the newer better offerings on cable for my area launching p:)
--
Every time Someone leaves Sympatico an Angel gets its wings.


zorxd

join:2010-02-05
Quebec, QC
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to um no

Browser language is the way to switch to the user language. But of course you still need to translate your web site.
I agree with the idea that every Isp should block urban outfitters as a protest.
Blocking Quebec isps isn't the way. Canadian provinces do not have associated IP blocks.
So it was a stupid move by urban outfitters and will make no difference to the oqlf.



weales

join:2002-06-30
Hampton, ON
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to LastDon

LOL... Either...

1) Technically challenged management made the call to do something this retarded.

2) Some scruby ass web designer made the call so they could impress the technically challenged management. People like this give the field a bad name.

I'm leaning towards 1.