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Parallax
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2014 Mercedes AMG E63

I' m drooling over this revised and new version of the ultimate Mercedes super high peformance sedan.

They've changed the body style subtley but distinctly. It looks good but I have mixed feelings as there is a certain body style look associated with Mercedes and this represents a new style that seems to depart a bit from the look that except or the logo instantl says "Mercedes!" Other than that the style is nice if perhaps a bit bland.

Now the good part. They have added an AWD drive, no doubt baed upon the Audi Quatro concept.

When it comes to high performance AWD has difinite pros and cons compared to RWD.

The pros are in straight line acceleration and certain types of normal or non-high performance cornering as well as overall "every day" handling. However, high peformance cornering and road handling is compromised with the AWD compared to th RWD.

However, AMG claims to have set up a special new suspension to compensate or mitigate and lessen the weaknesses just described so that you get a much better high performance handling and cornering performance from the AWD as compared to traditional AWD.

Then in the straight line performance with this car's horsepower and torque in both its normal configuration or with the added performance package the acceleration and straight line traction is amazing. With the car's torque and BHP four tires with power to them is better than two!

The vehicle goes from 0-60 or 0-62, (don't recall which), in a minimum of 3.5 seconds. Some valid electronic times have been as low as 3.3 seconds. With the performance package top speed is raised to 188 MPH, electronically limited.

I have yet to see more such as the import lateral G rating as measured on a skid pad or on its winding road racing style driving as compared to the RWD.

All for about 100 grand fully loaded. Fully means full with one exception. That exeption is the optional ceramic braking system that in the real world at something like 14 grand is a complete wast of money. Totally! Stopping distance is no better than the super carbon fiber standard system and the fade is no better except in a true racing track situation. So unless you are actually going to run the Nurburgring, forgot about the ceramics. Plus you don't even want to know the average cost for a standard brake job on the ceramics!

Come on Lotto with my numbers!


Gomez
ha ha, charade you are
Premium,Ex-Mod 06-11
join:2001-02-21
Atlanta, GA
This will be mine...




-G

79575005

join:2013-07-04
Among the luxury car competition, Mercedes is having of a higher priority on the prompt introduction of its high performance variants than the others.

Parallax
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There are other many exceptional quality luxury cars in the class the Mercedes is but by my taste and strictly personal criteria I prefer the Mercedes OVERALL though depending upon specific models other brands I would rate higher. Still all fine or exceptional cars depending upon make and model.

The 2014 year new models of Mercedes especially the V8 and AMG crowd are incredible improvements and options in key areas IMO.

The E63 is IMO the best all around high performance four door production sedan in the world with the qualifier that being new the quality control is standards are met.

The S550 is the best all around standard high performance luxury sedan in the world for my taste or preferences--(assuming you can turn on or off some of the extra features that could be a real pain if they were all ways on.)

Disclaimer: I would not recommend the C63. Just the opposite in fact I would recommend against it and if I had the power I would have Mercedes modify the current model to where one could not disengage the traction or stabilization control.

Kearnstd
Space Elf
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reply to Parallax
the AWD I would not be shocked if it is a tweaked 4matic system since they already have that and the related patents to 4matic. I am guessing if it has a track mode that that tells the AWD to send most of the power to the rear. But in whatever mode is day to day driving it acts more like a Subaru or Audi and does the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip thing.

But how bad is cornering really harmed by AWD? I know AWD makes a car heavier so newton is working against it there.
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Gomez
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1 edit
The spec is 67/33 R/F.

The weight cost was minimal.. 130 lbs

»www.caranddriver.com/reviews/201 ··· e-review

-G

Parallax
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reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd:

But how bad is cornering really harmed by AWD? I know AWD makes a car heavier so newton is working against it there.

The new car actually laps quicker than the last year’s RWD E63.

That power to the wheels split of 33/67 front to rear is constant and doesn't change.

quote:
It's best to get right to business, that being the numbers produced by the twin-turbocharged 5.5-liter V8 located in the engine bay of one of the fastest sedans in the world. The 'base' model gets a boost of 32 horsepower and 15 pound-feet of torque for a final output of 550 hp and 531 lb-ft. A high performance S-Model – the US-market wagon will only be an S-Model – gets even more besides, putting out 577 hp and 590 lb-ft.

All that power gets to the ground through the AMG Speedshift MCT dual-clutch transmission with Comfort, Sport, Sport+ and Manual modes. The juice is then routed through the permanent "performance-oriented" all-wheel drive signified by the 4Matic moniker, which is biased 33/67 front-to-rear.
»www.autoblog.com/2013/01/10/merc ··· ing-mad/

»autos.jdpower.com/content/new-ca ··· view.htm

»www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Sea ··· -review/

I video viewed the car being pushed through it paces as well as a technical explanation by it's chief or head designer, (Forget his exact title.)

Kearnstd
Space Elf
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reply to Gomez
nice article. And interesting that its only 130lbs. Figured it would be way more.

Also interesting that the USDM is going to be AWD only, However I do agree with the article in their opinion on northern climates. Whenever I see a new MB here in NJ it almost always has the 4matic sticker on the back.
--
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Badonkadonk
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My understanding is that other than for the cheapest MBs (C250 or under) all MBs other than the AMGs (until recently) have been AWD. I know we didn't have a choice for our R and I don't recall seeing a choice for the standard E class either.

Parallax
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1 edit

1 recommendation

For 2013 as just a sampling the E350 was available in either RWD or AWD. The E550 sedan was AWD but the coupe either all RWD or available in both RWD and AWD.

The E63 was RWD.

The 500 series like the S550 and the AMG were RWD.

I think the 600 series were all RWD. I do not know if as of 2013 AWD were options on the larger sedan class and types. My impression it was not in the USA. But I'm not sure.

As we know the 2014 E63 will just be AWD but only in the USA. The rest of the world can choose RWD or AWD.

As for the full line up of Mercedes vehicles I do not know what the AWD v RWD will be other than the E63 but Mercedes has made it clear as have other manufacturers that the trend is shifting to AWD--on some cars just AWD and on others RWD with the option of AWD.

Oedipus

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reply to Parallax
The M5, E63/CLS63, and the upcoming RS7 (is there a new, non-Lambo V10 powered RS6 in the pipeline as well?) are all ridiculous cars. For some reason I'm still partial to the M5, but the new V8 just does not make a noise that sounds like ~$100k. The Audi/Mercedes offerings don't have the same problem.


Gomez
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New RS6 is V8, but it's pretty nice. My business partner preordered his a few days after driving my E63 .

> ... are all ridiculous cars.

Refreshing comment.. Agreed, they are all fantastically over the top.. Which one is simply preference, but all are beyond fun to drive.
--
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saillaw
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reply to Parallax
Does the M5 still use the subwoofer to "enhance" the sound of the engine? I have moral objection to that, even if it is well implemented.

And Ryan, I think your comments about AWD being inferior in cornering and on the track are probably not true anymore. Even if you take the weight penalty into consideration, a good AWD system can allow for better cornering (the Audi Quatro system, current generation, changes the power to different wheels to assist in cornering).
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Parallax
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said by saillaw:

And Ryan, I think your comments about AWD being inferior in cornering and on the track are probably not true anymore. Even if you take the weight penalty into consideration, a good AWD system can allow for better cornering (the Audi Quatro system, current generation, changes the power to different wheels to assist in cornering).

When do you think F1, Indy, and NASCAR type vehicles raced on closed circuits paved with good tracks will switch or move to AWD?


Gomez
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reply to saillaw
The '14 e63 delivers power 40f/60r, fixed, unlike Quatro. The torque at the rear wheels is the appeal of the E-series AMG, 40/60 is seen as a compromise, and there will likely be many European builds imported.

-G

Parallax
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said by Gomez:

The '14 e63 delivers power 40f/60r, fixed, unlike Quatro. The torque at the rear wheels is the appeal of the E-series AMG, 40/60 is seen as a compromise, and there will likely be many European builds imported.

-G

Actually the power distribution is 33 front and 67 rear. Better yet.

I'd like to hear a genuine serious answer from MB why the E63 AWD is the only option in the US but both the AWD and RWD is available every where else worldwide.


Gomez
ha ha, charade you are
Premium,Ex-Mod 06-11
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Atlanta, GA
You are correct.. Heavy rounding on my part.. But yes esentalially 66% to the rears.

Why is unknown.. Safe bet that it's part market survey and part logistics.. If I was surveyed on this it would "hell yes".. Love the car but I can feel the lfrint end trying move curve - some front end pull would be nice.

Possibly driving an audi R6 tommorrow, curious about the difference.

-G
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sk1939
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reply to Gomez
said by Gomez:

New RS6 is V8, but it's pretty nice. My business partner preordered his a few days after driving my E63 .

> ... are all ridiculously priced cars.

FIFY. 100k is steep to spend on a depreciating asset in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, they are nice cars, but 100k is steep (even 50k is steep). Yes I have driven some of the nicer cars (S400, SLK55, 2011 S6, 2008 M3, and GT500), and they all (for the most part) perform great. The problem is that they are expensive to maintain if you make less than 150k a year.

Parallax
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I don't see the relevance of your point.


saillaw
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reply to Parallax
said by Parallax:

said by saillaw:

And Ryan, I think your comments about AWD being inferior in cornering and on the track are probably not true anymore. Even if you take the weight penalty into consideration, a good AWD system can allow for better cornering (the Audi Quatro system, current generation, changes the power to different wheels to assist in cornering).

When do you think F1, Indy, and NASCAR type vehicles raced on closed circuits paved with good tracks will switch or move to AWD?

I think AWD is against the class rules for F1, Indy and NASCAR (but I haven't checked). So I assume that is the reason you don't see any AWD's in those classes.

But, I'm not really talking about professional racing performance, I'm talking more about amateur and enthusiast levels of performance. If you took a track and had 10 drivers of mixed skill levels, drive two otherwise identical cars, I'd put money on the AWD getting faster lap times, particularly if you are talking about a car with a powerful engine.

I thought that surely someone had done such a comparison, but I couldn't find one using google. The most comparable was this rather old article »www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sed ··· all.html

I think I'll send them an email suggesting they get a Porsche Carrera S and a Carrera 4s and see which one gets the best track times with non-professional drivers.
--
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( . . )
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saillaw
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reply to Parallax
Edit-

I just found this article: »www.porscheboost.com/content.php ··· and-snow

Interesting comparison here by Sport Auto between the 991 Carrera S which is rear wheel drive and the 991 Carrera 4S which is all wheel drive. Both cars have the same 3.8 liter flat-6 engine with 400 horsepower. The test cars are both manual so it is interesting to see how the addition of all wheel drive changes things. The difference in weight between the two cars just 29 kilograms (just 63 pounds) which really is not much additional weight at all.

The acceleration figures in every test favor the all wheel drive C4S. Even up to 124 miles per hour the lighter rear wheel drive Carrera S just can not catch it even in the dry. The C4S acceleration advantage obviously gets much larger in the wet and in the snow.

It is not just acceleration that favors the C4S thanks to traction but the track times as well. The Hockenheim laptime for the C4S on a dry track is faster as well, considerably by 3/10's. Check out the full data below.

Porsche 911 Carrera S vs. 911 Carrera 4S

Both with manual gearboxes.

Dry
- Tyres: Pirelli P Zero
- Weight: 1505 kg vs. 1534 kg
- 0-40 km/h: 1,5 s vs. 1,2 s
- 0-100 km/h: 4,7 s vs. 4,3 s
- 0-160 km/h: 9,9 s vs. 9,4 s
- 0-200 km/h: 15,1 s vs. 14,6 s
- Braking (100-0 km/h): 33,3 m vs. 33,2 m
- Hockenheimring: 1.12,0 min vs. 1.11,7 min

Wet
- Tyres: Pirelli P Zero
- Weight: 1505 kg vs. 1534 kg
- 0-40 km/h: 1,9 s vs. 1,4 s
- 0-100 km/h: 5,2 s vs. 4,8 s
- 0-160 km/h: 10,5 s vs. 10,1 s
- 0-200 km/h: 15,7 s vs. 15,2 s
- Braking (100-0 km/h): 38,9 m vs. 38,6 m
- Hockenheimring: 1.26,6 min vs. 1.26,6 min

Snow
- Tyres: Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4
- Weight: 1513 kg vs. 1540 kg
- 0-40 km/h: 6,7 s vs. 3,6 s
- 0-100 km/h: 18,5 s vs. 10,9 s
- Braking (100-0 km/h): 115,7 m vs. 114,5 m
- Hockenheimring: 2.18,5 min vs. 2.12,4 min

»youtu.be/4fzwPYlZKwg
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( . . )
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Badonkadonk
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reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:

said by Gomez:

New RS6 is V8, but it's pretty nice. My business partner preordered his a few days after driving my E63 .

> ... are all ridiculously priced cars.

FIFY. 100k is steep to spend on a depreciating asset in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, they are nice cars, but 100k is steep (even 50k is steep). Yes I have driven some of the nicer cars (S400, SLK55, 2011 S6, 2008 M3, and GT500), and they all (for the most part) perform great. The problem is that they are expensive to maintain if you make less than 150k a year.

It's all relative. I guarantee you that some people who make multiples more than $150K but own such cars find maintenance expensive and there are some that make less who find the cost reasonable and within their budget.


saillaw
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It's also relative to the resale value. One of the cheapest cars I've owned was the most expensive car I ever bought, a 2009 MB GL450. My wife drove it for two years, we put ~30,000mi on it, and we sold it for $11,000 less than we paid for it. On a monthly and mileage basis that was pretty damn cheap.

My best deal though was a 1997 Land Cruiser I had in Azerbaijan. I drove it for 2 years then sold it for $1700 more than I paid for it... But that was a strange market... Anyway I digress...
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( . . )
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Parallax
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reply to saillaw
said by saillaw:

Edit-

I just found this article: »www.porscheboost.com/content.php ··· and-snow

It is not just acceleration that favors the C4S thanks to traction but the track times as well. The Hockenheim laptime for the C4S on a dry track is faster as well, considerably by 3/10's. Check out the full data below.

Now, now, lets not get too carried away! A difference of .3 seconds on a circuit where the lap for the cars in questions is approximately one minute twelve seconds is hardly a "considerable" difference.

Why do you think AWD is banned or not used in F1, Indy cars, or NASCAR?


Gomez
ha ha, charade you are
Premium,Ex-Mod 06-11
join:2001-02-21
Atlanta, GA
reply to sk1939
said by sk1939:

FIFY. 100k is steep to spend on a depreciating asset in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, they are nice cars, but 100k is steep (even 50k is steep). Yes I have driven some of the nicer cars (S400, SLK55, 2011 S6, 2008 M3, and GT500), and they all (for the most part) perform great. The problem is that they are expensive to maintain if you make less than 150k a year.

i recently felt the same way.. I have an '04 Mitsubishi endeavor that I planned to drive until the wheels fell off. The paint for this year is notoriously bad, and thus mostly worn off, although never waxing it didn't help. But I didn't care.. Point a to b utilitarian driver, I was.

For me getting behind the wheel of an e55 was a game changer. Drive didn't need to be a nessecary evil for getting from A to B, it could actually be enjoyed.

The enjoyment is why I got one - pre owned. Someone else ate the bulk of the depreciation. Having owned it for two months and put on 4000k miles, I wouldn't think twice about a new one once it starts to show its age, primarily due to the warranty.

The other day I decided that I've no compelling reason to get the '14 as my '07 was quite satisfying, thus the reason I'm getting an beltronics STI-R installed.. Meaning I have to drive my Mitsubishi on Friday - back to a to b - meh.

I get that people don't get it - I didn't for a long time.

-G
--
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saillaw
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reply to Parallax
said by Parallax:

said by saillaw:

Edit-

I just found this article: »www.porscheboost.com/content.php ··· and-snow

It is not just acceleration that favors the C4S thanks to traction but the track times as well. The Hockenheim laptime for the C4S on a dry track is faster as well, considerably by 3/10's. Check out the full data below.

Now, now, lets not get too carried away! A difference of .3 seconds on a circuit where the lap for the cars in questions is approximately one minute twelve seconds is hardly a "considerable" difference.

Why do you think AWD is banned or not used in F1, Indy cars, or NASCAR?

Those are professional drivers though... put non-professionals in and I think you'd see an even bigger difference. To make a RWD go fast around a tack you need be somewhat of a drifter, with an AWD you just steer and stomp (yes oversimplified explanation but largely true).

And why is AWD not permitted by the class rules? I don't really know, but I suspect the biggest part of it, is the history and tradition, also part of it is the desire to keep costs controlled.
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( . . )
C(")(")