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JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA

TiVo confusion

Preface: I don't pretend to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I've looked here and on tivo.com and am finding conflicting information so I'm hoping that someone can help clear the confusion.
My setup: I have the standard-issue Verizon Actiontec router with 50/25 speed.
I currently have a Verizon MRDVR (one of the new black ones) in the living room and a standard Verizon STB (again, one of the standard black ones) in the TV room to where I can watch shows recorded from the MRDVR in the living room.
I cannot run ethernet cables to either room due to location (and the fact that my house is made of stone! I'm kidding, but it's virtually impossible).
I recently bought (2) brand new TiVo Premiere XL (500 GB) boxes at a yard sale. They have never been used.
I'm going to purchase TiVo wireless G adapters so that the TiVo units can receive guide updates etc.
I started a chat session with a TiVo rep yesterday about using the existing FiOS COAX cables to stream saved shows between the two TiVo units. She said that it was possible, and with the additional wireless G adapters, I would not need anything else (other than 2 cable cards).
I wanted to make sure, so I checked TiVo's help section today and read where the TiVo Premiere XL4's are the only boxes that only require 1 COAX cable. Any TiVo box older than that (including my XL's) will need a MoCA network adapter(?)
So, my question is:
With my current setup (COAX in both the living room and TV room, 2 wireless G adapters, 2 cable cards from Verizon and a TiVo subscription for both Premiere XL units) do I need anything else?

Thank you!
JAH


aVZTech5

join:2006-05-08
Conshohocken, PA

1 edit

If the Tivo Premiere units do moca, you don't need the wireless adapters at all, as long as you are using the Actiontec. From their site "Internet connection required to receive the TiVo Service Wireless, wired Ethernet, or Ethernet over coax (MoCA). "



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to JAH_PGH

Tivo lists 3 models.
•Premier
•Premier 4
•Premier XL4

I see no Premier XL listed on the Tivo site. That doesn't mean they did sell a Premier XL at one point, just that it's not currently listed on their site.

For the boxes listed, the CSR is correct, the Premier XL4 supports MOCA. The others do not. So if what you have is not the XL4, then you need either a wireless adapter or a MOCA adapter.

I strongly recommend going with the MOCA adapter over a wireless adapter. Much more reliable for video streaming. Tivo has the Actiontec MOCA adapters for $49. Best price around.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA

I checked the model number of my units and ran a google search - they are in fact the Premiere (TCD746320), 320 GB hard drive (45 hours of HD recording). The Premiere XL is the same unit but has a 1 TB drive (150 hours of HD).
»www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-pre···6320.php
»www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-pre···8000.php

By streaming, I'm guessing that you mean NetFlix, Amazon Instant Video etc. If that's the case, I don't do any of that, so I wouldn't need the MOCA adapter and the wireless would be sufficient(?)
BTW, Amazon has the wireless G adapters for $32 each

Thank you for the quick responses!
JAH



HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA

A little less expensive option is to use MOCA by using an actiontec router as a network bridge. You can find Actiontecs on eBay for less than the G adapters. I am using this setup for a S3 TIVO. There a number of posts that tell you how to set it up. Here is one:

»How-to: make ActionTec MI424-WR a network bridge


nowayout

join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA
reply to JAH_PGH

Only Tivo's 4-tuner models include MoCA at this point, so if one wants to use MoCA for their 2-tuner Tivos, they can get moca adapters ($50 on Tivo.com.)

If you are only going to -copy- recorded programs back and forth, wireless G adapters would be fine. But Tivo recommends a wired connection of some kind for -streaming- recorded programs. So if you plan to do any streaming, you might want to consider some moca adapters and use your coax.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to aVZTech5

The Premiere does do MoCA, however it requires a MoCA adapter to send to the Ethernet port. »www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to More Fiber

The Premiere XL is the same as the Premiere itself, requiring an adapter to take the MoCA signal from the coax and put it into an Ethernet port. The XL4 supports it natively.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to JAH_PGH

My biggest question is this, which MoCA revision does Verizon FiOS use since each revision supports faster and faster speeds. What sucks with the Premieres themselves is that they only have a 100Mbps Ethernet port so even if it's in a MoCA network that supports extremely high speeds over 100Mbps, it would itself be the bottleneck. The XL4 which supports MoCA natively, has a gigabit Ethernet port, but in a MoCA network it wouldn't be used anyway so then the other question would be what MoCA speed does it support.
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051


nowayout

join:2009-06-22
Allentown, PA

said by Mike Wolf:

My biggest question is this, which MoCA revision does Verizon FiOS use since each revision supports faster and faster speeds.

All modern Fios, Tivo, and actiontec equipment is moca 1.1 certified.
Premieres are limited by their CPU/platform, as no matter which form of network it uses, they can only do roughly 80mbps, give or take.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

ah cool. I just picked up an Actiontec ECB2500C so hopefully I won't have any problems. Just need to get a few more since I'm on cable. I'm hoping that if I get into a place with FiOS I can use them as clients for the Premiere and other devices. Save myself the hassle of having to run Ethernet across the apartment.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to JAH_PGH

Here is some more confusion, came across this video

»youtu.be/q6t-EpRB6aI?t=2m35s
which describes MoCA and stuff, but the TiVo Rep said it doesn't support MPEG4?

JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to JAH_PGH

Thank you all for the great discussion! Some of it is confusing to me, but I think I get the jist now:
I don't need the wireless adapters. Instead, I need the MoCA adapters which will allow the TV signal and network connectivity to run through a single COAX cable (to each TiVo). This will allow the TiVo's to share content with each other and also receive the TiVo updates and guide data etc.
Correct?



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

said by JAH_PGH:

I don't need the wireless adapters. Instead, I need the MoCA adapters which will allow the TV signal and network connectivity to run through a single COAX cable (to each TiVo). This will allow the TiVo's to share content with each other and also receive the TiVo updates and guide data etc.
Correct?

Correct.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
reply to Mike Wolf

said by Mike Wolf:

Here is some more confusion, came across this video

»youtu.be/q6t-EpRB6aI?t=2m35s
which describes MoCA and stuff, but the TiVo Rep said it doesn't support MPEG4?

The TiVo series 4, the TiVo Premiere, suports MPEG4. I have several TiVo Premieres and I have no problem viewing the current FiOS channels that use MPEG4. The Series 3 TiVos and earlier are the ones that do not support viewing MPEG4 channels.


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30
reply to Mike Wolf

said by Mike Wolf:

The Premiere does do MoCA, however it requires a MoCA adapter to send to the Ethernet port.

No. The Premiere does not support MOCA. That's like saying my PC supports MOCA because it's connected to a MOCA adapter.
said by Mike Wolf:

Here is some more confusion, came across this video

»youtu.be/q6t-EpRB6aI?t=2m35s
which describes MoCA and stuff, but the TiVo Rep said it doesn't support MPEG4?

MOCA and MPEG4 are two different things. MOCA is a way of transmitting ethernet frames on coax. MPEG4 is an encoding scheme used to encode video signals.

The Tivo rep said "Tivo does not use MPEG4 compression" (2:35). He made that statement to enforce why the use of MOCA is better than wireless since MPEG2 requires a higher bitrate between Tivo boxes. In fact, the Tivo stream only uses MOCA. It does not support wireless.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to More Fiber

said by More Fiber:

said by JAH_PGH:

I don't need the wireless adapters. Instead, I need the MoCA adapters which will allow the TV signal and network connectivity to run through a single COAX cable (to each TiVo). This will allow the TiVo's to share content with each other and also receive the TiVo updates and guide data etc.
Correct?

Correct.

Wait - I'll need 3 adapters according to this:
»www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html
1 for the router and 1 for each TiVo


More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

No, you don't need one for the router. The Actiontec has two built-in MOCA adapters. One for WAN and one for LAN.

edit: The Tivo Howtos don't assume that you have FIOS with a MOCA capable router.
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA

said by More Fiber:

No, you don't need one for the router. The Actiontec has two built-in MOCA adapters. One for WAN and one for LAN.

edit: The Tivo Howtos don't assume that you have FIOS with a MOCA capable router.

Whew - this was starting to get exponentially more and more expensive!
Thank you Fiber!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to aaronwt

said by aaronwt:

said by Mike Wolf:

Here is some more confusion, came across this video

»youtu.be/q6t-EpRB6aI?t=2m35s
which describes MoCA and stuff, but the TiVo Rep said it doesn't support MPEG4?

The TiVo series 4, the TiVo Premiere, suports MPEG4. I have several TiVo Premieres and I have no problem viewing the current FiOS channels that use MPEG4. The Series 3 TiVos and earlier are the ones that do not support viewing MPEG4 channels.

And yet he was holding a Series 4. What's scary is that this guy is supposed to know the correct information and he doesn't. What pisses me off is that who knows how long this has been going on and that it's on video.
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to JAH_PGH

said by JAH_PGH:

said by More Fiber:

said by JAH_PGH:

I don't need the wireless adapters. Instead, I need the MoCA adapters which will allow the TV signal and network connectivity to run through a single COAX cable (to each TiVo). This will allow the TiVo's to share content with each other and also receive the TiVo updates and guide data etc.
Correct?

Correct.

Wait - I'll need 3 adapters according to this:
»www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html
1 for the router and 1 for each TiVo

Makes sense for a cable provider but yeah like they said if your router already is creating the MoCA network then you just need to adapters on the TiVo side (if they don't have it built in)
--
I'm always up for a good chat and helping with VoIP testing so my contact info is below.
Gigaset.net: Michael Wolf
Callcentric: 17772288600
SIP URI: sip:226976325024#9@sip.gigaset.net and sip:17772288600@in.callcentric.com
Skype: MikeWolf051


HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA
reply to HenryFarpolo

said by HenryFarpolo:

A little less expensive option is to use MOCA by using an actiontec router as a network bridge. You can find Actiontecs on eBay for less than the G adapters. I am using this setup for a S3 TIVO. There a number of posts that tell you how to set it up. Here is one:

»How-to: make ActionTec MI424-WR a network bridge

I repeat...With two inexpensive Actiontec routers from eBay you can accomplish what you are looking to do!!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

I looked into this and came across some used Actiontec ECB2500C adapters. They any good?



HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA

said by Mike Wolf:

I looked into this and came across some used Actiontec ECB2500C adapters. They any good?

I never used an adapter. Compare the price with the used Actiontec routers. I bet the Actiontec router is a less expensive alternative to accomplish the same thing.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

Found a used Actiontec router and a used Actiontec adapter on ebay, both for 40 bucks so it's a tossup.


JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA
reply to HenryFarpolo

So, to clarify - I would need to purchase (2) Actiontec routers (eBay) and connect each one to my TiVo's in place of the MoCA adapter? Also, I read where, each time the power goes out, I need to re-program them. Is that true too?



HenryFarpolo
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Andover, MA

What do you mean by "in place of a MOCA adapter". If you mean instead of a MOCA adapter the answer is yes, one for each unless you have a Premiere 4 which is MOCA capable.

Once you set up the router, you do NOT have to re-program after a power failure.


JAH_PGH

join:2009-09-28
Pittsburgh, PA

I meant that, instead of buying the MOCA adapter from TiVo, I would use 2 Actiontec routers...



More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
kudos:30

Actiontec routers will work just fine in place of MOCA adapters.
Just follow the instructions in part 2 of the following FAQ to set up.
»Verizon Online FiOS FAQ »Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax?
--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.


elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
reply to JAH_PGH

»support.tivo.com/app/answers/det···/kw/moca

All the 4 tuners are moca capable, so you won't need an external adapter, assuming that is what you have.