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Zeldas7777
Charter - Business Residential
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25
North Richland Hills, TX

Zeldas7777

Premium Member

[CATV] Charter all digital secret revealed

I just spent some money on two brand new TV sets with DTV built in the TV's.
I was getting the DTV channels and HDTV channels that were digital with no
problem. Today I performed a channel scan on the TV's with no luck.

I called TV manufacturer about the problem. They told me they had no choice
but install the DTV tuner with both over the air, and cable signal support. The TV
fully supports digital cable signals. The only reason you would not get the digital
channel if they encrypted the signals. I was then told that the decoder were in the TV
but not the decoder with decryption. I was OK with that. Maybe Charter
messed something up or bad communication.

I called Charter and what they told me was all channels was encrypted to stop
stealing of CATV service. That I would have to have their set top box. I said I have 5
TV's with basic cable will you give me a free converter for all 5 of them. They said no
only two and the other 3 would be six dollars each.

I research »www.dtv.gov and found out that TV with the DTV on them will
not be affected from the cable all digital change over and only premium channels
would require a set top box. hence my TV's are DTV equipped. I should not need
a converter box from Charter.

I also have a digital converter box that scan for digital channels on cable and over
the air with no success.

Summery

I think this is another market scam to swindle profits from consumers.
kherr
Premium Member
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL

kherr

Premium Member

Like they said, they're trying to cut down on thefts. Would you leave your door open so anyone could come in ??? They're also doing it to free up bandwidth to have room for more internet and HD channels, I'm sure that if not now, but eventually all cable companies will scramble all channels. Freeloaders also tend to mess up the signals too. How many people here on the forum have had their problems resolved by Charter hunting down the "thieves" getting cable for free ???

The world doesn't play fair ........ Welcome to the World .....

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958 to Zeldas7777

Premium Member

to Zeldas7777
"I think this is another market scam to swindle profits from consumers"

Yes and no and EXACTLY why I don't and won't ever subscribe to digital tv or satellite tv. Another reason is that I almost despise tv anyway. Nothing but a waste of time, especially with the garbage that's on it!!

whatever guy
@charter.com

whatever guy to Zeldas7777

Anon

to Zeldas7777
Firstly DTV.gov has NOTHING to do with cable. That has to do with the switch from analog to digital OTA( Over The AIR ) TV signals.

TVs are required to have tuners for digital OTA signals. These are called ATSC tuners. These have nothing to do with cable TV.

Digital cable TV uses QAM modulation. Nearly all TVs have QAM tuners in them. Specifically Clear QAM. That means they can get in unencrypted digital cable TV signals. QAM tuners are NOT required in TVs. They are in TVs because that what customers want.

Analog cable channels are NTSC. This is also what analog OTA signal were. All TVs are still required to have them in also. Now the FCC stated that cable companies had to provide analog basic channels until December 2012. Since it's April 2013 they no longer have to do that and there isn't a requirement that they must provide ANY clear QAM signals. This isn't any different than DirecTV or Dish or U-verse or FiOS which all require some sort of box on your TV to receive ANY programming.

The only channels you could ever get in with Clear QAM anyways were the locals( ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS, CW ) plus maybe a Jesus channel a shopping channel and maybe WGN. If that's all you need an antenna would better suit your needs if you get can in decent OTA signals

Bamafan2277
Premium Member
join:2008-09-20
Jeffersonville, IN

Bamafan2277 to Zeldas7777

Premium Member

to Zeldas7777
Charter is transitioning all its cable channels in Texas to start to all digital to make more bandwidth avaliable to provide more HD channels and Internet speed packages.

Analog channels take up much more room than digital channels do. The encription part is to help cut down on cable theft also.
smithduluth
join:2006-10-26
Duluth, MN

smithduluth

Member

You can put 6 digital SDTV channels or 2 HDTV channels in the same bandwidth as 1 analog SDTV channel. Sort of the same thing that has happened with cellphone service over the past 10 years with many digital calls in the same bandwidth as one analog call.
15444104 (banned)
join:2012-06-11

15444104 (banned)

Member

Anyone have an idea as to when each Charter market will become all digital cable TV?
Zappa2000
join:2001-12-16
Kalamazoo, MI

Zappa2000 to Bamafan2277

Member

to Bamafan2277
said by Bamafan2277:

Analog channels take up much more room than digital channels do. The encryption part is to help cut down on cable theft also.

Encryption on OTA channels is just dumb.
There are a ton of TVs and tuner cards that support clear QAM, and those should never be encrypted.

While some areas can get a powerful antenna to get those same stations, that isn't a sure thing for a variety of reasons.

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Zappa2000:

said by Bamafan2277:

Analog channels take up much more room than digital channels do. The encryption part is to help cut down on cable theft also.

Encryption on OTA channels is just dumb.
There are a ton of TVs and tuner cards that support clear QAM, and those should never be encrypted.

Between OTA channels charging cable companies to broadcast them and cable theft for ANY open signals... I can see why cable companies want them encrypted.

The spread of encryption will just increase the demand for easier methods for paying customers to see the product, be it CableCARD solutions, TV Everywhere, or something else. It'll speed the demand for non-rental, non-cable company equipment by end users. Leading customers on with the slow death of analog and clearQAM is just torture and slowing down product/service advancement.
wildthing202
join:2007-08-14
Douglas, MA

wildthing202 to 15444104

Member

to 15444104
said by 15444104:

Anyone have an idea as to when each Charter market will become all digital cable TV?

I know that Massachusetts is suppose to be done by mid-2014 if not sooner.

JimE
Premium Member
join:2003-06-11
Belleville, IL

JimE to Zeldas7777

Premium Member

to Zeldas7777
I don't see any "secrets" revealed. Mostly just a lack or misunderstanding of technology.

As noted, they are trying to prevent theft. I'm surprised they haven't done this sooner. In the long run, it's better for the Charter network, and better for customers.

Zeldas7777
Charter - Business Residential
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25
North Richland Hills, TX

Zeldas7777 to kherr

Premium Member

to kherr
If Charter was following FCC regulations the theft would be almost next to none.
The regulations state that all open ports on the service line must be capped off
with a terminator. I think that is why they have port locks to lock the service line
ports. Terminating the service line ports help prevent outside noise and keep the
signal from leaking.

whatever guy
@charter.com

whatever guy to Zappa2000

Anon

to Zappa2000
said by Zappa2000:

Encryption on OTA channels is just dumb. There are a ton of TVs and tuner cards that support clear QAM, and those should never be encrypted.

While some areas can get a powerful antenna to get those same stations, that isn't a sure thing for a variety of reasons.

It's not about encrypted OTA per say it's about having the whole system encrypted. It's not only about theft it's about maintenance. Once the new system is in place some issues that may have required a service call can be done remotely. That not only saves charter money but can save the customer money by not having to pay the fee for a house call.

Also the only people really affected are those that only want basic. Which is basically locals. Digital channels on expanded basic are already encrypted. So how many customers only want just channels 2-13? Less than 5% I would say. And most, and I know not all, can get locals via OTA antenna which is free anyway. So the overall amount of people truly affected by this is probably less than 2% and those people will get 2 free boxes for year.

cable tech
@charter.com

cable tech to Zeldas7777

Anon

to Zeldas7777
Even with locking terminators on empty tap ports. People still steal cable. Either breaking ports of affecting other customers. If you want cable pay for it. Go else where and guess what you have to get a box.

InTheKnow
@charter.com

InTheKnow to Zeldas7777

Anon

to Zeldas7777
Zelda, you would be amazed at the lengths people will go to to steal tv services. All of the physical measures are really just to keep the honest folks honest. With full digital encryption it is useless to connect to the cable plant unless you have a registered device that will communicate with the headend.

DocDrew
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2 edits

DocDrew to Zeldas7777

Premium Member

to Zeldas7777
There are no FCC regulations that state all tap ports must be capped but even when they are it doesn't stop theft. I've seen more locking terminators mutilated and removed, tap ports broken, and other creative ways for theives to steal service than I care to tell about. As long as there are unencrypted channels on the line, there will be people trying to steal it.

BTW, Terminators really don't "prevent outside noise and keep the signal from leaking". When installed improperly they often act as antennas and increase noise and leakage problems much more then an open port ever would. What the terminators do is prevent that RF signal fed to the port from reflecting back and interacting with the signal on the line. As long as the center conductor and shield of the cable keep a nominal 75ohm impedance, which they do on a undamaged tap port, they shouldn't "leak or allow "noise" to enter. For more info I suggest you read this: »www.cablefax.com/cfp/ct/ ··· 806.html

Zeldas7777
Charter - Business Residential
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25
North Richland Hills, TX

Zeldas7777 to cable tech

Premium Member

to cable tech
I the paying customer have to pay the price for thieves in the past.
I do not think that is right. I think they should have a specific box for just
basic channels that is lease free and another for premium channels.

I do not think it is right for people who paid $600+ on digital video recorder
to lose the right to use their own recorder. Why spend so much money to just
lose the use of it.
Zappa2000
join:2001-12-16
Kalamazoo, MI

Zappa2000

Member

said by Zeldas7777:

I the paying customer have to pay the price for thieves in the past.
I do not think that is right. I think they should have a specific box for just
basic channels that is lease free and another for premium channels.

I do not think it is right for people who paid $600+ on digital video recorder
to lose the right to use their own recorder. Why spend so much money to just
lose the use of it.

Exactly, everyone with a PVR that uses clear QAM will be screwed.
Charter's devices are crap, and they won't let you copy the recordings to another device.
It is all about content control.
It already is BS about the 'copy once' DRM that they "accidentally" change to 'copy never', then they blame the station that broadcasts it, and they blame Charter.

If you go ahead and get the cable box, but not the DVR version, then you can't record from that device at all, even if you hook it up correctly, why ? DRM.

Paying customers get screwed, again.
Pirates laugh at all the people that are paying, again.

Charter then decides everyone fees must be raised to cover the influx of "free" boxes, and it goes on and on.

It never ends.

whatever guy
@charter.com

whatever guy

Anon

said by Zeldas7777:

I the paying customer have to pay the price for thieves in the past.

Guess what when you shop at the store part of the price you pay on something is taking into account money lost due to shoplifters.

I do not think that is right. I think they should have a specific box for just basic channels that is lease free and another for premium channels.

So Charter should just buy boxes and eat the cost of them? You get 2 free for a year. Also if all you want is basic then get an antenna. If you live at the location listed under your username you will have no issue getting in many channels via a simple antenna.

I do not think it is right for people who paid $600+ on digital video recorder to lose the right to use their own recorder. Why spend so much money to just lose the use of it.

A) that's the risk you take. Some people spent money on HD-DVD players or betamaxes

B) You should be able to record locals via OTA antenna.
said by Zappa2000:

Exactly, everyone with a PVR that uses clear QAM will be screwed.
Charter's devices are crap, and they won't let you copy the recordings to another device.
It is all about content control.
It already is BS about the 'copy once' DRM that they "accidentally" change to 'copy never', then they blame the station that broadcasts it, and they blame Charter.

Since the only issue is with locals most people can get them in via antenna anyways. I'm not seeing why the outrage.

Paying customers get screwed, again.

How? How are you getting screwed? Once again locals can be had via antenna in most cases. This affect maybe 2% of Charter customers. Also if one only has basic cable they certainly are not renting a DVR.

Charter then decides everyone fees must be raised to cover the influx of "free" boxes, and it goes on and on.

It never ends.

The go to DirecTV, Dishnetwork, U-verse, FiOS. Oh wait they ALL require a box on ALL TVs too. Please explain what Charter is doing that is different than them?

geek
Mad Scientist at Work
Premium Member
join:2002-01-07
Southbury, CT

geek

Premium Member

I agree with almost all of this.

The real solution is a whole home gateway and many are working towards it. Provision/Decrypt at the entry and you are done.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to DocDrew

Premium Member

to DocDrew
said by DocDrew:

said by Zappa2000:

said by Bamafan2277:

Analog channels take up much more room than digital channels do. The encryption part is to help cut down on cable theft also.

Encryption on OTA channels is just dumb.
There are a ton of TVs and tuner cards that support clear QAM, and those should never be encrypted.

Between OTA channels charging cable companies to broadcast them and cable theft for ANY open signals... I can see why cable companies want them encrypted.

The spread of encryption will just increase the demand for easier methods for paying customers to see the product, be it CableCARD solutions, TV Everywhere, or something else. It'll speed the demand for non-rental, non-cable company equipment by end users. Leading customers on with the slow death of analog and clearQAM is just torture and slowing down product/service advancement.

Cable companies think it will inflate their bottom lines. Now they get to charge rental fees for the access control devices. They've always wanted to charge per-TV, and it's only fair since their competitors all pretty much require set tops.

I think they may be shooting themselves in the foot. I know so many people who refuse to use superior alternative services because they have a bunch of extra TVs in the house and don't want to pay extra fees for their occasional use.
Zappa2000
join:2001-12-16
Kalamazoo, MI

Zappa2000 to whatever guy

Member

to whatever guy
said by whatever guy :

said by Zappa2000:

Exactly, everyone with a PVR that uses clear QAM will be screwed.
Charter's devices are crap, and they won't let you copy the recordings to another device.
It is all about content control.
It already is BS about the 'copy once' DRM that they "accidentally" change to 'copy never', then they blame the station that broadcasts it, and they blame Charter.

Since the only issue is with locals most people can get them in via antenna anyways. I'm not seeing why the outrage.

As I said, there is no good reason to encrypt them as you yourself said, it is locals, and people could get them via antenna anyway (though, it my case, that isn't the case, unless I want to have a roof top antenna)
They don't have to encrypt the locals, and it won't stop pirates from getting what they want anyway.
Who would be stupid enough to steal cable for only the locals ?

Paying customers get screwed, again.

How? How are you getting screwed? Once again locals can be had via antenna in most cases. This affect maybe 2% of Charter customers. Also if one only has basic cable they certainly are not renting a DVR.

If you bought something, and now you can't use it for no valid reason, then I call that getting screwed.

Charter then decides everyone fees must be raised to cover the influx of "free" boxes, and it goes on and on.

It never ends.

The go to DirecTV, Dishnetwork, U-verse, FiOS. Oh wait they ALL require a box on ALL TVs too. Please explain what Charter is doing that is different than them?

I never said they were better.
Why do you think people are dropping Cable TV and the rest of them at a higher rate than any time in the past? They rather use netflix/hulu/amazon or whatever else, instead of putting up with all this kind of crap.
kherr
Premium Member
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL

kherr

Premium Member

Who would be stupid enough to steal cable for only the locals ?

Since when are criminals smart ......
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
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Chubbysumo to Zappa2000

Member

to Zappa2000
said by Zappa2000:

Exactly, everyone with a PVR that uses clear QAM will be screwed.
Charter's devices are crap, and they won't let you copy the recordings to another device.
It is all about content control.
It already is BS about the 'copy once' DRM that they "accidentally" change to 'copy never', then they blame the station that broadcasts it, and they blame Charter.

Most PVRs, like the TiVO and such allow for MCards, which allows the box to decode the encrypted streams. You can even get computer add on cards that have cablecard slots. I am considering getting one, and using my desktop as a media server, and ditching the DVR fee, and only paying the $5 per month for the Mcard.

JimE
Premium Member
join:2003-06-11
Belleville, IL

JimE to Zeldas7777

Premium Member

to Zeldas7777
Vent all you want. There is no downside for Charter. The only complaint (as always), is from someone trying to get something for free.

If you don't like it, get a different service.

Zeldas7777
Charter - Business Residential
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25
North Richland Hills, TX

Zeldas7777

Premium Member

said by JimE:

Vent all you want. There is no downside for Charter. The only complaint (as always), is from someone trying to get something for free.

If you don't like it, get a different service.

I think paying $100.00 + $25.00 for 2 box leases for service that includes Charter DVR box and a Regular digital box plus wanting to have my other 3 TV's without a box to save some money is not much to ask when I am paying for it. Along side plus 2 internet lines.

Having to use a forward and reverse bi-directional amplifier to balance signal says allot about how Charter keeps the line maintenance up. So what exactly we paying for again?

I thought you pay for good quality of service, and not so so ok service.

DocDrew
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1 edit

DocDrew

Premium Member

You're paying for cable service. IF you don't like the Charter boxes buy your own, there are a few available that will work with Charter. If you don't want to use a box to get OTA channels from cable, use an OTA antenna.

Charter is just trying to protect it's investment in the cable system, channels it pays for, and signal quality. Having unencrypted channels leaves it open to theft and it spends a good chunk of money on tracking and repairs due to that theft. They're not exactly a profitable company and if you haven't noticed they're penny pinching all across the board in an obvious effort get out of constant quarters of red.

You have choices. Charter isn't forcing you to use their service, their DVRs, or their 2 Internet connections, you are WILLINGLY paying for them. Continuing to pay them for services and equipment you don't like, encourages them to continue what they're doing.

If you're really that unhappy with the service go to Dish, DirecTV, or what ever other provider you have available at that address.

BTW, most cable companies design the system to support 3-4 outlets per home. Yours obviously has a few more than that. That is why you need a amplifier, not because of any lack of maintenance.

Zeldas7777
Charter - Business Residential
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25
North Richland Hills, TX

1 edit

Zeldas7777

Premium Member

I have 2 drops to my house already. Are you saying I should have a third

DocDrew
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DocDrew

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said by Zeldas7777:

I have 2 drops to my house already. Are you saying I should have a third

No. You're fine using a house amp with that many outlets. That is what they are for. I have a house amp to feed my 6 outlets, works fine.

I am surprised they allowed 2 drops. Most system planers only design 1 per home, which often means 2 drops to one address creates a shortage if all the addresses fed by the tap want service.

In reality, a second drop only gets you 3.5dB more signal. The average house amp is about 10dB of gain.

bobjohnson
Premium Member
join:2007-02-03
Spartanburg, SC

bobjohnson to djrobx

Premium Member

to djrobx
said by djrobx:

Cable companies think it will inflate their bottom lines. Now they get to charge rental fees for the access control devices. They've always wanted to charge per-TV, and it's only fair since their competitors all pretty much require set tops.

I think they may be shooting themselves in the foot. I know so many people who refuse to use superior alternative services because they have a bunch of extra TVs in the house and don't want to pay extra fees for their occasional use.

They are. The cablecos that are doing this know they are pushing legit customers out the door but in preventing theft of the service are hoping that they will be replaced by the thieves actually buying the service. As well as saving money on disconnects, unneeded service calls, etc.