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antdude
A Ninja Ant
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join:2001-03-25
United State
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NYC Police Comm'r:Privacy Is 'Off the Table' After Boston...

»reason.com/blog/2013/04/25/sayin···nyc-poli from »yro.slashdot.org/story/13/04/26/···on-bombs

"From the Department of Never Let a Serious Crisis Go to Waste comes word that New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly thinks that now is a great time to install even more surveillance cameras hither and yon around the Big Apple. After the Boston Marathon bombing, the Tsarnaev brothers were famously captured on security camera footage and thereby identified. That just may soften up Americans to the idea of the all-seeing glass eye. "I think the privacy issue has really been taken off the table," Kelly gloats..."
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
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1 recommendation

/sarcasm on

Well of course! He only wants them to

• Protect the children.

• Protect us from terrorists.

/sarcasm off
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
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1 recommendation

reply to antdude

New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly thinks that now is a great time to install even more surveillance cameras hither and yon around the Big Apple.

Really? Why he thinks it's a great time? And what makes it "great"?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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1 recommendation

Well I'm sure he thinks it's great because it allows the police to monitor public places 24/7/365 live using systems only they have access to. You can be sure they won't misuse the images/video since they say they won't After all they're from the gummint and they're there to help you. Right?

Of course private camera's, like those in stores, gas stations etc are standalone. Also they're usually loop based--that is they store images/video for a certain amount of time before overwriting old data. Typically they're only viewed if the private entity needs to (e.g. shoftlifter etc) or law enforcement asks for them (as they did in Boston--the identifying data came from a private businesses cameras).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!



Blackbird
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Fort Wayne, IN
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reply to antdude

Maybe Kelly really ought to go for a NYC ordinance mandating all citizens must wear Google Glasses all the time, and make the uplinks available to NYC's finest. Just imagine... 8 million surveillance cameras, 24/7. When a crime gets committed, all the cops have to do is spend 25 years plowing through all the video looking for... something... anything...
--
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” A. de Tocqueville



StuartMW
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said by Blackbird:

...all the cops have to do is spend 25 years plowing through all the video...

Nah. Everything from Google Glass with be going straight's into Bob's data center in Utah. All those supercomputers will cut that time down to a few hours, Plus they'll be able to cross-correlate the images with electronic communications. But only if you're a non-citizen Data from citizens will be magically (somehow) excluded. Bob doesn't spy on citizens. He says so so it must be true
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to antdude

....latest in a long line of events to justify less freedom /privacy / [insert here]...

Who was it that us the quote "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Regards



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to antdude

Again?

I am sick of giving up real liberties for perceived safety after events where the goal is to cause fear and instability to the point we question the very foundation that frames our man-made laws governing our society rooted by life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why are we so foolish to quicken the destruction of our identity at the hands of those who wish to destroy our identity?
--
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Frodo

join:2006-05-05
reply to antdude

The one thing that struck me after the Boston bombing was, if the perpetrators expected to get away with it, then they would have to be in DISGUISE, otherwise they would be photographed, not only from any surveillance cameras, but also by the scores of cameras and cellphone cameras that the spectators had.

From what I hear, the FBI interviewed a critically ill patient who said he saw the bombers, and then searched the footage to match the description from the eye witness to suspects in the surveillance footage and stills provided by citizens.

Going forward, I don't think the big brother monitoring is going to be confined to video surveillance. There is going to be voice biometric technology going forward.

I don't think the voice biometric technology is reliable today. However, 10 years from now, all bets are off. And having a microphone everywhere is cheap. And, unless someone has the voice of Microsoft Sam, any speech picked up could be uniquely identifiable.



jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
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reply to HELLFIRE

said by HELLFIRE:

....latest in a long line of events to justify less freedom /privacy / [insert here]...

Who was it that us the quote "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Regards

Benjamin Franklon, 1759!


JMHO42

@verizon.net
reply to antdude

Says the guy who never thought privacy was "on the table" to begin with. Well, he can put up all the cameras he wants to... on his own dime, of course--I have better uses for my "tax money".



goalieskates
Premium
join:2004-09-12
land of big

said by JMHO42 :

Says the guy who never thought privacy was "on the table" to begin with.

+1

Just another case of never letting a crisis go to waste. Just ignore the part where individuals won't actually be any safer, since cameras are generally only useful after the fact.


JustTheFacts

@comcastbusiness.net

After the fact to mean the camera could prevent a repeat offense?

All this anti-camera chatter must mean all the complainers would not ask for images or video if they were a victom of crime and video or pictures could help them or thier family?



Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

said by JustTheFacts :

All this anti-camera chatter must mean all the complainers would not ask for images or video if they were a victom of crime and video or pictures could help them or thier family?

Wrong, it means they would request people who took pictures and/or video at the time to please provide a copy. What they don't want is a 1984 style 24/7 police state.

Let's not forget one of the bombers was perviously brought up and put on a watch list. That did a lot of good didn't it?

Cameras won't prevent crime. It may help in solving the crime after the fact, but I believe we can all agree that is already too late.
--
“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” ¯ Robert A. Heinlein
Expand your moderator at work


AVD
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Onion, NJ
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reply to Kilroy

Re: NYC Police Comm'r:Privacy Is 'Off the Table' After Boston...

said by Kilroy:

Cameras won't prevent crime. It may help in solving the crime after the fact, but I believe we can all agree that is already too late.

the incident, yes. But there is a benefit, especially when dealing with non-suicide types.
--
* seek help if having trouble coping
--Standard disclaimers apply.--


Camaro
Question everything
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Westfield, MA
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reply to antdude

My only thought is, with the tools they requested after 9/11 they say they needed to protect us from another terrorist attack , and this happens. Why should they get more tools when they screwed up? If i screw up in my job, I don't get a raise or more vacation. Maybe I need to work for the government so I can screw up all the time and get rewarded for it.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to antdude

@jaykaykay
...ahh, thanks for the confirmation of that

said by Camaro:

Maybe I need to work for the government so I can screw up all the time and get rewarded for it.

+1 Amen brother!

Regards


The Shadow
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reply to antdude

I consider surveillance cameras in public places a significant step forward in public safety, crime prevention, crime solving, and security.

I doubt we loose few if any liberties by their installation and legal use. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a truly public place in the context of the first paragraph.



Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
Reviews:
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reply to antdude

Let's all try to look at this from a realistic point of view shall we?

This guy is just the commissioner, as the article states, he/they are looking into it, and that is probably about as far as it will go. All this guy is doing is blowing sunshine up into the ass of the press to get attention. He has no authority over things like this. Hell, he even knew the right words to say to grab headlines and also to get some people riled up. (Just look at this thread lol)

I know Detroit won't be getting this any time soon or in the future. Not really due to low funding but they would get stolen to be sold for scrap or resold on the internet some where.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek



The Shadow
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said by Cthen:

This guy is just the commissioner, as the article states, he/they are looking into it, and that is probably about as far as it will go. All this guy is doing is blowing sunshine up into the ass of the press to get attention.

I was under the impression that in NYC the Police Commssioner is what every other major city and town calls the Chief of Police. Or am I misinformed or mistaked about that? NYC is "different" abot a lot of things that are tied to government when it comes to titles and procedures, etc.

If he is the Police of Chief or equivalent I would think that his opinion an input would carry a lot weight even though he lacks the arbitrary or unilateral ability to do what he proposes soleley under his own authority.


La Luna
RIP Lisa
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join:2001-07-12
Warwick, NY
kudos:3
reply to antdude

It appears that this article is fairly biased against surveillance cameras in public places.

It fails to adequately give kudos to the fact that the cameras in Boston DID identify the bombers, the exact type of thing these cameras are for. I don't believe they are interested in Joe Public walking down the streeting picking his nose. Although I don't doubt that Joe wouldn't want that caught on camera. Joe forgets there is no guarantee of privacy while out in public.
--
The Alien in the White House

20,776 DEADLY TERROR ATTACKS SINCE 9/11



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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1 recommendation

said by La Luna:

It fails to adequately give kudos to the fact that the cameras in Boston DID identify the bombers...

Yes, private camera's installed by businesses did allow them to be identified after the bombing.

...the exact type of thing these cameras are for.

I disagree. Those camera were primarily there to catch shoplifters, vandals and so on.

Gummint cameras will track you 24/7/365 in real-time and the data will go who knows where. Private cameras don't do that (why would they?). That is the difference everyone seems to ignore.
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2

And one more important thing to remember. Business owned cameras roll over the old stuff on a regular basis, while government collected spy data goes to The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say), where it will be kept ... forever?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...



StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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said by OZO:

...Business owned cameras roll over the old stuff on a regular basis...

Yep. A point I made above.

»Re: NYC Police Comm'r:Privacy Is 'Off the Table' After Boston...
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


AVD
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reply to The Shadow

said by The Shadow:

I was under the impression that in NYC the Police Commssioner is what every other major city and town calls the Chief of Police.

actually he has about 5 or 6 chiefs that report directly to him and he is a direct report to the mayor. (through the deputy mayor for public safety)
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--Standard disclaimers apply.--


The Shadow
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said by AVD:

said by The Shadow:

I was under the impression that in NYC the Police Commssioner is what every other major city and town calls the Chief of Police.

actually he has about 5 or 6 chiefs that report directly to him and he is a direct report to the mayor. (through the deputy mayor for public safety)

So it sounds like he is the equivalent of "CHIEF of POLICE." He just has the NYC tradition of different titles and their way of doing things unique to NYC: In this case Police Commissioner=Chief of Police.

Most major citys top cop commonly called the Chief of Police. For instance in Los Angeles you have within the LAPD the Chief of Police and then there are a total of 12 Deputy Chiefs or Assistant Chiefs in support, (they are equivalent in rank.)

Thanks for the explanation.


Bink63
Namedrop THIS
Premium
join:2002-10-06
Everywhere

Just to clarify, Chicago has a SUPERINTENDENT of Police.

»portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/···ar12.pdf

Last I checked, we were one of the largest cities in The Americas.



Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Detroit, MI
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reply to The Shadow

said by The Shadow:

If he is the Police of Chief or equivalent I would think that his opinion an input would carry a lot weight even though he lacks the arbitrary or unilateral ability to do what he proposes soleley under his own authority.

Thinking and knowing are two different things.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek


Camaro
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reply to The Shadow

said by The Shadow:

There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a truly public place

And tell that to a cop who you just recorded beating the crap out of a suspect in a public place.