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Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1 to Bonka

Member

to Bonka

Re: Service Electric Cablevision News

Same outage here. I came back online at 7:17 AM. Still have terrible lag so the main issue has not been resolved. No T3 timeouts yet.
I think we will be suffering from this for a while because if changing over to the Hazleton head end does not resolve this then they will have to trouble shoot the distribution system I our areas.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

1 edit

Bonka

Member

Doesn't seem like the t3 timeouts are actually causing my connection to drop at all. I think I'll hook my own modem back up to see if I have any issues again. I can't tell if the same exact issues that were happening when my modem would restart a few times a day aren't happening or if it actually is my modem/router. The test modem is having t3 timeouts but as I said, the connection isn't actually dropping. I can hook the splitter back up and test both at the same time, but I can't see if the connection actually drops on both unless they restart. And even then, it's running on a splitter which isn't helping.

Hooked my modem back up and had a t3 timeout already, connection didn't drop. I haven't had any issues with my connection dropping in almost a week now, outside of that power outage this morning. I'm sure the problems will come back right after the test modem is returned.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

With T3 and T4 timeouts you will not lose connection it will only add lag to your internet. T3 is the head end did not hear the modem answering back and T4 is the modem did not hear the headend. If you have about 16 timeouts in a given time frame then your modem will automatically reboot. If you are losing connectivity then that is a different issue all together.

If moving into the Hazleton headend eliminates our T3 and T4 timeouts then there was an issue with the headend. But if you continue to have connectivity issues then your have some type of local issue in or outside your home.

Here is how a cable modem gets online:

The modem scans for a digital QAM channel (which can be digital TV or modem downstream channels) and "listens" for upstream channel descriptor (UCD) information on it (which is only found on modem downstream channels). If it doesn't get the UCD after a few seconds of receiving data on that channel, a T1 timeout occurs and the modem looks for another digital QAM channel.

Once the modem finds the correct downstream channel and receives the upstream channel descriptor, it then waits for its initial opportunity to "talk" to the CMTS. If it doesn't get that chance within 12 seconds, a T2 timeout occurs.

So during initial modem connections, T1 and T2 timeouts are perfectly normal to see in the modem logs.

After locating a downstream data carrier channel, the modem gets its chance to "talk" to the CMTS and sends data to negotiate the proper upstream signal levels and timing. This negotiation process takes several data exchanges between the cable modem and the CMTS. If at any point the modem doesn't receive a response from the CMTS within about 200 milliseconds, a T3 timeout occurs. Several T3s have to occur before a modem resets.

The modem then goes through the DHCP, TFTP, TOD processes and once all are completed the modem is online.

Once the modem is online, the CMTS sends "Periodic Ranging" or keep-alive requests to it every 30 seconds. If the modem doesn't receive one, a T4 timeout occurs. Once 16 of the T4 timeouts have to occurred, a modem resets.

If there is a downstream communication problem, the cable modem might not receive these "keep-alive requests". If the upstream utilization is too high, or too many modems are connected to the same upstream port, it is possible that some modems will not get the required bandwidth or transmit opportunities to respond to the keep-alive requests. Either of these issues can result in T3 or T4 timeouts occurring.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

I've been running a traceroute and had zero connection issues when the t3 timeouts happened today.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

You will not see this issue with trace routes or ping tests.
Run a speed test on PTDs site and look at your quality of service and delay time.
When I talked to SECV their QoS was 99% and about 4ms of delay were my QoS, some as low as 39%, was all over the place and had delay times of over 200ms. They admitted there is something wrong and they sent all the information to engineering.
This test is actually a measure of performance between your computer and the ISP which is PTD.

»www.ptd.net/help-desk/in ··· eed-test
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

I should see something on a traceroute. Either the pings are going to shoot up or packets will drop. If neither of those are happening, I don't really care as it's not affecting my connection. Just like I get 1-3% packetloss on the CMTS all the time. It shouldn't happen but it's not causing my connection to cut out or slow down, so it doesn't really matter.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

Not really. Read this as it will explain why trace routes are not an ideal way to track problems.
In fact I can not do a trace route or ping to ptd.net as it gets blocked and times out. I was told PTD does this on purpose for security issues.
»homepage.ntlworld.com/ro ··· ute.html
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

2 edits

Bonka

Member

Of course, as soon as I start doing something where losing my connection hurts me...my connection shits out. Comes back, shits out again. Back to the test modem. I'm sure nothing will happen now, leaving me clueless as to whether it's just my modem or not.

Just ran a bunch of speed tests on PTD so I have something on record to show them. The QoS and Upload Consistency on the ones I marked down were as follows:

QoS / Consistency
58 / 58
63 / 50
40 / 73
35 / 72
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

Keep a record of the max delay also. Your QoS is all over the place like mine is but I am not losing connection yet.
Here is some good articles on what can kill a cable tv signal this is why I am saying that there can be things that they can't see unless they look very hard for them.

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· ress.pdf

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· ress.pdf

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· iles.pdf

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· 0War.pdf

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· vels.pdf

»www.scte.org/TechnicalCo ··· ited.pdf
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

1 edit

Bonka

Member

Just looked over at the test modem to see I don't have a blue light on the upstream. Checked the status and log and I've lost an upstream channel. There are a ton of t3 timeouts as well as sync errors. The log does say 16 consecutive t3 timeouts on channel 1, twice. The modem restarted after that but didn't get the upstream channel back. I just restarted the modem myself and have both channels again. Not sure if SECV was doing something to cause that or what. Definitely something I'll have to mention to them as I've never seen that before, and having 1 upstream channel completely go out can never be good.

Actually looking at the logs again, the modem restarted once, then had all those timeouts, losing the upstream channel, had the 2nd round of 16 timeouts on the same upstream channel, and restarted again. First restart should have been 10:05am, 2nd was 10:25am. Those restarts are from t4 timeouts, not sure if the 16 t3s caused a restart. The logs on this modem really aren't that great when it overwrites things and doesn't say when the modem restarts or is powered down/on.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

I am not having any issues here. I am going to wait to see what happens when they move us over to Hazleton. If the problem still exists I am going to look into a business internet connection with PTD. I do not know the cost but I know there is no caps and this rids us of having to deal with SECV. It looks like you can phone service through PTD also.
»www.penteledata.net/inde ··· csis-3-0
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

PTD's still going to use at least part of SECV's system to get service to your place. It's probably pointless.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

You will get a static IP address and you will be dealing and paying PTD directly.
Here is a link from SECVs website for commercial internet. Notice the contact for getting it is someone at PTD.
»www.secv.com/mahanoy/bus ··· mah.html

If the problem is on SECVs side then they have to fix it as PTD will force them to do so. The only problem is I do not know what the cost are with business internet as I suspect it may cost a bit more but if bandwidth usage is a concern then it is probably better and cheaper in the long run.

When I called and complained last week the first question I was asked if I had a business or residential account. The CSR tried to tell me that I should use SECVs speed test since I had residential internet and only use PTD test if you have a business account. This is actually false as PTD has one speed test for residential and one for commercial.
I managed to convince her to put me in touch with someone in the internet department and he confirmed that the PTD test was more accurate than SECVs.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

1 edit

Bonka

Member

Just had 3 t4 timeouts on the test modem at 10:16am, 10:58am, and 11:01am. The 2nd time it came back with only 1 upstream channel. The 3rd time it was stuck on the upstream light blinking and wouldn't connect. Hooked my own modem back in to see if maybe they disabled the test on me and it connected. Hooked the test back in to be sure, and it connected, so the connection was just down for a few minutes.

So this has been pretty bad the last 2 days and I've yet to hear from SECV since I've had the test modem. I did just send them an email 2 nights ago and expected to hear back from them. Wonder what the deal is.

And just had another t4 timeout and the modem came back with only 1 upstream channel.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA

cypherstream

MVM

Sounds like there are return path problems in your house or area. The one stat we cannot see is upstream SNR. That has to be pulled from the CMTS.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

I continue to have the test modem restart from t4 timeouts and only have 1 upstream channel. I've sent another email to SECV telling them I expected to be contacted about this already and my problem is only getting worse. It's quite clear something is very wrong.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

I have no where near the problems you are having but I am suffering from some serious lag. The last test I just did has me at 240ms. Its to the point when I click on a link I have to wait until it responds. It makes it feel like I am back on dial up. Both my PCs are doing this.
I must also note that my upstream levels are pegging to the top of the ceiling, which for us is around 53dBmV.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

I've noticed the majority of problems occur during daytime hours. Most of what's happened the last 2 days has been between 10am and noon. I've had almost no problems at night. Makes me wonder if another local SECV customer, possibly a business, is causing or compounding the problem. For all I know someone is uploading a bunch of stuff and 'overloading' the upstream. I think it's possible that someone's modem could be outputting at such a high power on the upstream that it ruins it, right?
Bonka

Bonka

Member

And more t4 timeout restarts and still no contact from SECV. Guess they're just ignoring me now.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1 to Bonka

Member

to Bonka
I just went three whole days with out a timeout and at 6:01 AM this morning I started getting T3s again. The lag is still bad here. I don't think they will do anything until after labor day. I will assume they will start moving customers over to the Hazleton system after labor day as they will need all hands on deck.
Bears Head seems to be losing power on a regular basis now but once we are moved out of there it will be abandoned so I don't think they will make any effort to do any repairs there as it will be a waste of money.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

It would be nice if they actually told us this, instead of ignoring us. If the transition is soon, not 1 to 2 months away, I'm ok (not really ok, but I can understand) with waiting to be moved over. But I kind of doubt it'll be that quick.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

It seems like management at SECV thinks they are guarding top secret technology. When they do decide to move us I just hope it doesn't go like the transition did. If it does then it might be time they make some adjustments with personnel.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

Up to 8 t4 timeouts today. 7 yesterday. Absolutely ridiculous. Guess I have to waste my time and call to see if I can get anything done since they've clearly stopped calling me after I email them. I'm half expecting to be billed for renting this modem too when it was given to me for testing purposes.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

I will have to quote Andrew Dice Clay. Talking to SECV is like masturbating with a cheese grater it is slightly amusing but very painful.
I apologize if the language is offensive but I believe it is very fitting of trying to deal with any businesses anymore.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

They're sending someone tomorrow. I doubt they'll actually find anything while here, as is always the case. The person I talked to mentioned something about engineering but I wasn't really listening because I was busy looking up schedules for tomorrow to see when someone would be available for the tech to be here.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

3 edits

cypherstream

MVM

They should use a full size meter like a DSAM or DSP860i and do a full telemetry test. At the modem, ground block and tap. They should also see if they can access iGlass and see what your return SNR is.

Maybe do a reverse sweep. Not sure if they use JDSU or Trilithic headend gear to acomidate a reverse sweep.

DSAM 6000 JDSU
»www.2wave.se/content/ima ··· 2471.pdf

Trilithic 860 DSPi
»vault.trilithic.com/inst ··· heet.pdf

I THINK Comcast in my area uses the DSAM 6000 and SECV uses the 860 DSPi, but I am not 100% sure on SECV. I know they did reverse telemetry and forward sweep and saw my levels were way out of equalization so they replaced my underground drop and it fixed my issue.

They actually just buried a new underground drop from my ped to a neighbors house who just switched from DirecTV.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

I don't remember which meter they have. In order for them to do any sweep testing of any kind they have to get permission from corporate. It will require for someone to be in the head end to do the tests. I compiled a lot of data and turned it into Hazleton to add to the data they compiled and then it is sent to corporate for analyzing. If they feel it is not an issue then nothing will be done.
Hopefully they will do something for Bonka as his issue is more severe than mine.
Bonka
join:2002-12-05
Tamaqua, PA

Bonka

Member

Waiting for them to come. Interested to see what they end up doing. I still think it'll be useless, especially since it looks like I've had no t4 timeouts today...of course. It'll clear up the day they come while it was awful the 2 days prior. Granted even if they were here yesterday they may have missed the timeouts.

cypherstream
MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
·PenTeleData
ARRIS SB8200

cypherstream to Jed1

MVM

to Jed1
Why would it require permission from corporate? The new sweepless systems have a rack mount device in the headend. The meter does a reverse telemetry check and it talks to this device and then they do the checks back and forth.

I guess nothing beats the old human eye though. However these automated electronic systems exist. I'm pretty sure that's how they did reverse telemetry check on my line when they had to replace my drop. That failed and so did forward tilt.
Jed1
join:2012-01-14
Frackville, PA

Jed1

Member

From what I understand is the division can only do what is considered daily normal operations. Anything out of daily normal operations needs to be approved by corporate.
I think some or most of our problems here is related to Bears Head. Bears Head is soon to be abandoned and scrapped. The major hold up of moving us Mahanoy City customers to the Hazleton head end was they had to acquire rights of way which proved to be quite expensive and delayed the project for over a year.
Once we are moved from Bears Head and I am still having this issue then they will move forward and try to identify what is failing or leaking into their system.. It appears that engineering is seeing and additional issue with Bonka so they may approved additional work above what they consider to be normal daily operations. We will know more once Bonka reports back.