jp245
join:2002-02-15
Brenham, TX | reply to BrianDamage
Re: Church members I've always found it ironic, people that don't subscribe to religious beliefs are of the opinion that religion is the cause for more murder and wars then anything. Yet if you are of the opinion that there is no high power, then you should be able to see that these atrocities are done under mans ideology. |
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| reply to ewwww
said by ewwww:
I bet you that in the past 80 years capitalists have killed more than communists...Those are just some of the big american ones. Each have thousands of deaths in their name. Some have hundreds of thousands or more.
Stalin alone killed 10 million of his own people. You lose.
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What the hell are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language? - Private Frost, from the movie Aliens |
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 BrianDamageWe Are The Hounds From HellPremium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX | reply to jp245
I have my own beliefs.
I believe that there is something more.
I also believe that even though most people on this Earth acknowledge some kind of supreme being in one form or another, and often use it for justification to kill other people, that murder is manifested by *MAN*, and as in anything else, performed by the hands of men.
God has not recently reached out and killed anyone. Man has.
God has been the motivation behind many killings, all perpetrated by the hand of man.
I still believe that religion has claimed more human life than any other single motivation.
It may be convoluted with other reasoning, coupled with other motivations or justifications, etc., but religion in its' varying degrees are the basis for most of the inhumanity that has occurred throughout our history.
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We've got our eye on the firmaments, our hand on the armaments, our heads full of arguments, and words for our monuments..... |
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| I think it's a much larger sphere of influence than just religion. If you think about it the majority of violent acts stem from a conflict concerning ones core, or personal, beliefs. Religion is just one facet of this. There has been enough talk about holy wars and death in the name of God, Allah, or any other diety on this post. What about other beliefs? The U.S. and the old U.S.S.R. were running a cold war based on differences in economic policy (among other things). As a general rule republicans hate democrats and vice versa, which stems from varying political views. The riots that followed the Rodney King trial was based loosely on racial intolerance (based on the belief that the "man" is sticking to the minorities again). What about the fights you see in sporting events? They stem from something as simple as who your favorite team is. If you really break it down all of these come from challenging someone's personal beliefs and that person reacting to the extreme in response.
In other words I think putting the load on religion alone is avoiding the larger issue. You are correct in pointing out the atrocities BrainDamage. I just think saying the majority of killings are based on religion is pigeon holing the big picture. It's likely some of the stuff I said will spurn new debates, but then again what's what we're here for. 
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When do I get my freakin' third star?!?!? |
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| religion is responsible How many mass murders would have been prevented if the people committing them didn't know that they could get away with it by using religion. Whether it's a reason or excuse a lot of killings would not have happened if upon returning home to their families people would have been treated as the killers they are instead of holy warriors. It's not just the people committing the acts that are responsible but those that condone it as well. |
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jp245
join:2002-02-15
Brenham, TX | reply to SRFireside
Re: Church members Well stated SR., People feel very strongly about their own beliefs, (right or wrong), and questioning them will bring out alot of opionions from everyone. Look how many respones are envoked from this dicussion.. Luckly we can do this in a civilized manner, but in other times and other countries this was cause for war or other barberic acts. But I myself believe in Jesus Christ, and to bash me for that and call me uneducated and weak minded is only narrow minded from the accuser. Do I know for sure there is a Heaven or a God, or can I prove to you there is? Of course I can't, but can someone else prove to me for sure there isn't, of course not. So why bash someone else's beliefs when there is no definate answer? But I do have faith that there is, and I defend my faith in J.C., but I chose to defend it in a cizilized manner, other's chose to defend there faith through war and aggression. |
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| reply to DannyBoy5
said by DannyBoy:
If you'd like to make the statement that more killing has been done in the name of religion that anything else, please include some facts to back it up.
[text was edited by author 2002-03-22 11:05:11]
Please referance crusades 1-3, and follow that by most various fights between protestants and catholics, see also IRA, and lets take a look at the massacare of the jews under hitler, the Priest Stalin sent to Siberea, and we can top it all off with the inquisition.
I can't spell and know it so please save that comment. |
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 Jamming777$Time Is Running OutPremium
join:2001-07-25
USA | said by Linuvas:
Please referance crusades 1-3, and follow that by most various fights between protestants and catholics, see also IRA, and lets take a look at the massacare of the jews under hitler, the Priest Stalin sent to Siberea, and we can top it all off with the inquisition.
Stalin was an avowed athiest, the official view of the Communist Party of the former Soviet Union, Hitler killed out of a psuedo-scientific theory and personal beliefs not as a religious leader. The Inquisition which one the Roman or the Spanish? Or one of the other smaller ones? Most of the inquisitions were condemned at the time by the Roman Catholic religious leaders of their own time even. The IRA which wing or party of the IRA, some fight for ethnic reasons against the Orangemen, some are Communistic, and some are Religiously based.
Crusades were not so much about massacres, there were a few but that was how wars were fought then when cities that resisted in a siege were taken. It was considered that if you didn't resist you would be spared the sacking and pillaging, wars between Christians were even fought that way. Many people here are ignorant of the political and social realities of the period's that they are citing in their opinions.
But tell me this, do you like the "Song Amazing Grace", it was written by a former Slave Ship Captain, a Scotsman. He was writing about how that things we consider normal for our times may be transcended, by God's Love and his gift of "Grace". It is placing your trust in something other than your own abilities, because some where along the line you are going to fail. God makes things work out in the evils of all times, God is not religion. His will can be thwarted because He gave us the freedom to choose wrongly, even those that speak in his name. But "Grace" allows all of us to move beyond the facts and opinions, we or others hold, by trusting for the future.
Weak-willed? HA! try trusting some one other than yourself for your future and happiness, I bet you wouldn't last an hour.
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Jamming *Team Z Member* |
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BrianDamageWe Are The Hounds From HellPremium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX | reply to SRFireside
Well, this thread is about the significance of religion more than anything else.
As far as the Cold War between us and the former USSR, I see your point, but would like to point out that deaths were not many and that it's basis was not religion, but economic and political, as well as that of perpetuation of a democratic system vital to the US's self preservation and vanity in being the only remaining superpower on the planet, both militarily and economically.
Now we have other countries that are as capable (almost) as the former USSR was, both militarily and economically.
China has nuclear weapons. They will be putting a man on the moon soon. The United States will no longer be the only country to enjoy that achievement. What, if anything, will the US do? That remains to be seen. History of our arrogance dictates that we will not be outdone, therefore, I'm sure something would come about.
What you mentioned about the Rodney King trial is good topic, because I see that that type of racial intolerance and prejudice goes back a long way. And, think back, to when blacks were just "negroes", subservient to the white man, and how white men used religion to justify owning slaves, etc.
Think of how leaders like Louis Farrakhan use(d) religion to promote violence and murder.
If you think about all of these issues, all of them have a religious connection in terms of philosophical similarities and motivation.
Religion is still the predominant motivation in this world that has contributed to the most deaths of humans, in all it's subtlety and convolution. Tha..tha...that's what I think....
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We've got our eye on the firmaments, our hand on the armaments, our heads full of arguments, and words for our monuments..... |
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| I still think it runs deeper than just religion. As you stated the Cold War was NOT religious but the topic of communism sure did run in the same fervor for many people. As with the other examples I stated I think violence via religion is just one facet (albeit a large one) of violence via intolerance to different ideals. I suppose we agree to disagree regarding the semantics.
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When do I get my freakin' third star?!?!? |
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BrianDamageWe Are The Hounds From HellPremium
join:2001-08-14
Rowlett, TX | I just think that religion has had more significance than say, communism.
Yes, Stalin killed about ten million of his own people, but Hitler killed many more, and religion has killed even more than that. That's my point.
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We've got our eye on the firmaments, our hand on the armaments, our heads full of arguments, and words for our monuments..... |
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