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Mont

join:2006-05-02
Saint-Leonard, QC
reply to MJB

Re: FTTH in ontario



MJB

join:2012-01-29
reply to kovy7
yah... london has no fttn or ftth .... rogers is hfc system.... i don't like shared cable....

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
said by MJB:

yah... london has no fttn or ftth .... rogers is hfc system.... i don't like shared cable....

Do you even know the price of Bell FTTH right now ?


MJB

join:2012-01-29
yes somewhere in the 149.95 dollar range

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to MJB
said by MJB:

yah... london has no fttn or ftth .... rogers is hfc system.... i don't like shared cable....

FYI, FTTH is a shared service as well.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
said by yyzlhr:

said by MJB:

yah... london has no fttn or ftth .... rogers is hfc system.... i don't like shared cable....

FYI, FTTH is a shared service as well.

The whole public internet is built on the principle of networks sharing bandwidth.

People/companies/universities/etc. who need truly dedicated/reserved bandwidth from A to B with strict performance guarantees have to lease private virtual circuits (which may or not share some of the same equipment and links as infrastructure used by the "public" internet) with SLAs.

If ISPs had to provision their networks as if they were dedicated, a relatively small company like TSI would need ~500Gbps of interconnects with Bell instead of the ~35Gbps they currently have or ~1Tbps with Rogers instead of their current ~70Gbps.

Nearly all bandwidth ends up shared sooner or later. On cable, sharing starts on the coax. On xDSL, sharing starts at the DSLAM. On GPON, it starts on the fiber much like coax. On Fiber ETTH, sharing starts at the edge router's uplink much like DSLAMs.

There is no getting away from sharing bandwidth on practical networks.


MJB

join:2012-01-29
Reviews:
·VMedia
·ACN DSL
i know that fiber is shared ... but it makes me mad that they can't upgrade the current neighborhoods of major cities like toronto, hamilton, london, etc....

no upgrades at all... no effort to do it... go buy a sports stadium ...

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to MJB
said by MJB:

yes somewhere in the 149.95 dollar range

So you want to pay that ?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to MJB
said by MJB:

yah... london has no fttn or ftth .... rogers is hfc system.... i don't like shared cable....

I'll bet you a box of timbits and a coffee that there are homes somewhere within the limits of the Corporation of the City of London that can get FTTH from Bell.

Edit - ... and if you don't believe me, pop an address from Canvas Way into Bell's online validation tool. They can get Fibe TV over fibre, too.


MJB

join:2012-01-29
more money is used to advertise that they have fiber ... lol..

bell is useless and stupid


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
A billion dollars (roughly) in capital investments a year... How much more should they spend, to make you happy?

BTW - besides bragging rights, what do you want to do, that you can't do over cable and DSL, and require FTTH for?

BTW2 - Bell will be doing a huge FTTH overbuild in the next few years... Within 5, expect them to have FTTH available to 70% or so of the population in the regions they serve.


LondonDave
Premium
join:2011-09-05
London, ON
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
reply to MJB
I live in London and have Bell FTTH. I'm on 15/15 with 6ms of latency in the Bell network. It would be nice if someday it was available to the independents but in the meantime I'm on a student plan with 375gig of usage for 46.95 and don't have any complaints.

If you don't like your options move. We live in Canada and the market will dictate the technology. Upgrading existing neighborhoods is expensive and time consuming. You will be more likely to see FTTN in existing older areas. I do believe bell has been actively removing bridge taps to improve line conditions as well.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

BTW2 - Bell will be doing a huge FTTH overbuild in the next few years... Within 5, expect them to have FTTH available to 70% or so of the population in the regions they serve.

I'm not sure I believe that. A decade? Sure. But expecting them to have 70% of their footprint overlaid with fibre in five years when they aren't even finished their FTTN rollout doesn't make sense.

I'd like to believe you though, I really would.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
I didn't say 70% or their territory... I said 70% of the population within their territory... Subtle, but important difference.

Once Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal are done; they are most of the way there...


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I knew exactly what you meant, and you're probably still being a bit optimistic for that to be complete in five years from today.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
I agree it's aggressive - But they are lining up lots of contractors, and making some big statements...

Dunno if they'll make their targets, but they are going to take a hell of a run at it.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
It would certainly be a welcome change on the part of Bell, but it just seems so counterproductive to continue the FTTN rollout for the next two years instead of holding off and jumping right to FTTH instead in those areas not already deployed. London - oddly enough - is a good example of such a situation.

Down here in Fort Erie there are service lines spray painted around a whole bunch of OPIs here in town. Something is afoot down this way as far as FTTN goes, or at least that's how it looks. We've also got some FTTH deployed here in town (our mortgage broker lives in one of the new FTTH areas, and we talked about it during a meeting this evening)

SLAMtech

join:2009-12-03
kudos:1
reply to MJB
There is about 20-30 CSP's in London alone(fibre distribution crossboxes) serving residential neighborhoods. All greenfield, not to mention 5-6 apartments wired fibre to the unit.

Still just serving a fraction but if your that desperate for ftth then you got to relocate where its available.


FiberToTheX
Premium
join:2013-03-14
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

BTW2 - Bell will be doing a huge FTTH overbuild in the next few years... Within 5, expect them to have FTTH available to 70% or so of the population in the regions they serve.

That won't happen at least by the end of this decade. Their FTTN deployment began in 2005-2006 and will finish by 2015. Vectoring and Pair Bonding will be used to extend the lifespan of FTTN which is an Interim transition step.

Perhaps beginning by 2020 they will begin overlaying existing Brownfields with Fiber and have finished their deployment in high aerial plant areas.

said by LondonDave:

If you don't like your options move. We live in Canada and the market will dictate the technology. Upgrading existing neighborhoods is expensive and time consuming. You will be more likely to see FTTN in existing older areas. I do believe bell has been actively removing bridge taps to improve line conditions as well.

Upgrading existing neighborhoods isn't as difficult as it is in Urban areas. Suburban areas are easier to upgrade. That being said the use of Microducts offsets the difficulties and deployment of FTTH is already very efficient in many countries worldwide.

That being said Verizon has been able to knock down deployment of FTTH in existing Brownfields from $4000 (2004) to $650 (2010) per house. Similar figures could likely be seen in Bell's deployment.


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
said by FiberToTheX:

said by LazMan:

BTW2 - Bell will be doing a huge FTTH overbuild in the next few years... Within 5, expect them to have FTTH available to 70% or so of the population in the regions they serve.

That won't happen at least by the end of this decade. Their FTTN deployment began in 2005-2006 and will finish by 2015. Vectoring and Pair Bonding will be used to extend the lifespan of FTTN which is an Interim transition step.

Withing saying more then I should (and hell, maybe I already have) - they have some VERY agressive and impressive plans underway.

As I said in my other post, I have no idea if they are going to meet the targets being set, but they appear very serious about the FTTH roll-out.

Bonding and vectoring in an interm step, for sure; and doesn't really impede the FTTH overbuilds, as there's actually minimal cost to roll it out.

Anyways - I'm not laying any bets either way - but they are making some big noises, at least in certain circles...


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

I agree it's aggressive - But they are lining up lots of contractors, and making some big statements...

Dunno if they'll make their targets, but they are going to take a hell of a run at it.

Just look at IPTV.. they had very aggressive targets 5 years ago and still haven't met half of it.


mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5
reply to MJB
Also to the OP, it is doable if you can convince enough of your neighbors to commit to FTTH and then present their signatures to Bell. That's what some areas did to get DSL service installed.

The catch: the number of interested customers has to exceed the costs to install it.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to mlerner
said by mlerner:

Just look at IPTV.. they had very aggressive targets 5 years ago and still haven't met half of it.

They've met more than half of that goal. As far as I can tell, they're on track with their revised projections from two or so years ago for completion in 2015.

It'll be very interesting to see how Bell implements a FTTH deployment. I can't see them ripping out copper to all customers and going through the nightmare of putting ONTs into each and every house it passes, I just can't. I can see it being more of a Verizon-esque move where once you switch to a fibre-supplied product (in this case, Internet or Fibe TV) your POTS get switched to fibre and you can never go back to copper again. If you already have either of those products you automatically get moved to fibre.