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anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08

1 edit

anveo to shootfoot

Premium Member

to shootfoot

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

said by shootfoot :

said by anveo :

Your claim that Anveo is a reseller of some mysterious company is FALSE. Anveo Direct is NOT a reseller of a mysterious company!

We have our own interconnects. For example BICS was added via referral from Voxbone (both companies are based in Belgium ), IDT was added after Wholesale congress in Miami this year, negotiations with Tata have started way back in 2012 and interconnect was completed 2 weeks ago. We are now working on adding Telefonica and consider another carrier in Canada and Alcazar Network.

I'm sorry, but I call BS.
...
I'll also note that the 3 carriers you mentioned:
BICS , IDT , Tata
aren't in the screenshot.
...

I have no idea who you are ( i only see some anonymous poster who looks like is affected by the launch of Anveo Direct service).
You can say anything you like, however, if you were paying attention to details than you would notice the very last screenshot in the URL you provided which shows other carriers I mentioned

Here it is »/speak ··· ZpY2U%3D

So please stop spreading misinformation about Anveo Direct service.
grand total
join:2005-10-26
Mississauga
·Fido
MikroTik RB750Gr3
MikroTik wAP AC
Panasonic KX-TGP500

grand total to anveo

Member

to anveo
Click for full size
POPs
said by anveo:

said by shootfoot :

...On the other hand they say they don't proxy audio, but according to grand total earlier in this thread, they have "POPs in the US, east and west coasts, Germany, Belgium, and most interesting of all, China." If Anveo isn't proxying audio, why do they need all those geo-graphically separated servers?...

Those are not Anveo servers. I will reiterate again that Anveo Direct DOES NOT PROXY audio. I am not sure what Grand Total was referring to. Voxbone has POPs in China (we do not). Audio (RTP) is sent directly from the underlying carrier (Voxbone for DIDs and carrier's RTP server for outgoing calls).

Please see attachment.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

1 recommendation

PX Eliezer1 to nitzan

Premium Member

to nitzan
said by nitzan:

said by shootfoot :

That said, Nitzan seems to do the same thing - to an extent - with Future-Nine and cheapvoipinc.

Good point. That was one of the main concerns when starting CVI. My thinking is by not providing DIDs (at least not retail) on CVI this helps drive retail users to F9 (or other providers).

I think that Future-Nine and CheapVoipInc serve rather different markets.

F9 has several types of calling plans to choose from, all of which include both inbound (DID) and outbound (termination) service, many features, and 911 service.

CheapVoipInc has a strong focus on discounted outbound (termination) services only.

Different clienteles.

----------

Similar to the tool business:

Many people like high-end tools with the DeWalt name, they scoff at Black & Decker which they view as lower-class tools.

Yet Black & Decker bought DeWalt in 1960.

Same company, yet different brands for different hands.
sokhapkin
Premium Member
join:2003-05-08
North Fort Myers, FL

sokhapkin to anveo

Premium Member

to anveo
"Innovative" termination carrier selection was on CWU from the beginning... By default CWU doesn't proxy audio for SIP clients on a public IP address, unless the customer will set proxying explicitly in the account settings. Where is the innovation?
anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08

anveo to grand total

Premium Member

to grand total
said by grand total:

Please see attachment.

This is for Default Inbound Service configuration (page title will need to be adjusted). Default POP is where Voxbone will hand off calls for your DIDs. If you select Belgium there (for example) then RTP will be sent from Voxbone's servers in Belgium.

N9MD
Too busy to chat
Premium Member
join:2005-10-08
Boca Raton, FL

1 recommendation

N9MD to anveo

Premium Member

to anveo

This is getting interesting!


Mmmmm!
Placing a log on the fire, sitting back, putting feet up ... and starting to munch.
anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08

1 recommendation

anveo

Premium Member

I will add some fuel to the fire shortly

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

1 recommendation

Arne Bolen to JoeSchmoe007

Premium Member

to JoeSchmoe007

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

said by JoeSchmoe007:

I have no idea what he just said but as Anveo customer I like it!

Translation: Excellent product for VoIP users and they will praise Anveo.
Bad for competitors and they will not praise Anveo.
anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08

2 edits

1 recommendation

anveo to sokhapkin

Premium Member

to sokhapkin
said by sokhapkin:

Where is the innovation?

I was hoping that someone would take a look at the HELP TAB and will share it :-) I guess not many users read HELP section these days :-)

Where is Innovations ?
We did not invent LCR, we did not invent multi-carrier model, we did not invent NO PROXY MEDIA...
But the real innovation is in the HELP Section :-)

On more serious note Innovations are:
1) Ability to control LCR model not only from the portal but also from special SIP Headers

I am sure each service provider had cases where a simple mistake in the rate table results in huge loses when someone sends calls to exploit that error. Anveo Direct can help service providers by supporting a special set of SIP INVITE Header to control Anveo Direct LCR Model ( like setting CAP to the rate you charge your end users and the call will not go though it there is no route found with acceptable call rate :)

2) REALTIME call details notification via SIP MESSAGE or HTTP CALLBACK as the call progresses (which includes which carrier is used, calling rate, call duration, custom data etc).

----------

COPY/PASTE from Anveo Direct HELP tab

Anveo Direct Call Termination service provides access to multiple carriers with various rates and service levels. Anveo Direct customers can take advantage of using flexible multi-carrier options to route their calls through carriers (and even with failover) using flexible and customizable LCR model to achieve desired quality/price ration with excellent reliability.
Anveo Direct LCR provides flexible LCR model which can be configured through the portal or via X-ANVEO-LCR SIP Header in SIP INVITE

How Anveo LCR works
Anveo LCR configuration includes PREFIX, IP Addresses, Rate Cap, Carrier routes, Selection Depth and Route Call/Failover Order.

Here is how Anveo LCR works. When a call is received Anveo will perform the following steps:
1. - locate Anveo Call Termination Trunk based on IP address from which the call was received and Prefix
2. - Select Carrier Routes configured for the Trunk with call rates within Rate Cap
3. - Sort Carrier Routes based on the rate (lowest first)
4. - Keep top N results from the sorted list of Carrier Routes
5. - re-sort the list of Carrier Routes based on the option configured (cost, or random or service tier order)
6. - Send the call to the first route
7. - If the call fails then taiolver to the next route etc.
SIP Invite and X-ANVEO-LCR header
In addition to the LCR model configuration from the portal it is also possible to send SIP Invite to Anveo and dynamically configure LCR model by including a specially formatted text in the X-ANVEO-LCR SIP header.
The format for X-ANVEO-LCR string is as follows:

cap=N.NNNN|routes=id1,id3,id4|depth=N|order=ORDERTYPE

where
• cap is a rate cap. For example: 0.01
• routes is a list of carrier routes (their id) separated by comma. For example: carriers=1,2,3,4
• depth is a the number of carrier routes to keep for the call routing and failover: For example: depth=3
• order - is the call order either 'cost' or 'random' or 'tier'. For example: order=random

cap,routes,depth,order are optional parameners and you can only specify those needed for a particular call. For example; you can only specify cap=N.NNN where N.NNN is your target rate.

Realtime Call Details Notifications via SIP MESSAGE or HTTP CALLBACKS
Anveo Direct can automatically notify your SIP server which carrier route is used and the call rate for the connected call as well as call progress status and when the call ends the total amount deducted as well as call duration in seconds.

X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-TYPE SIP Header
To activate realtime in-call notification X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-TYPE SIP INVITE header needs to be set either to 'SIP' (for SIP MESSAGE) or to 'HTTP'.
When X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-TYPE is set to HTTP you need to also set X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-URL SIP INVITE header to URL on your web server where you want to receive realtime Call Details information.
Example:
X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-TYPE: HTTP
X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-URL: »www.myserver.com/httpcal ··· back.php

X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-MEMO SIP Header
When Anveo sends realtime Call Details notifications it can include in the data any custom information which you set in X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-MEMO SIP INVITE header. For example; it could some kind of CALL KEY within your system, userid or anything else.
Example:
X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-MEMO: 123456789

X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-EVENTS SIP Header
You can select when Anveo will send realtime Call Details information as call progresses (ALL, CONNECT, END). To set that information you need to use X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-EVENTS header and set it to either: ALL (for all notifications), CONNECT (only when Call was answered), END (only when call ended)
Example:
X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-EVENTS: ALL

Realtime Call Details Notifications
After all notifications fields are configured Anveo will send the following call details to either HTTP URL provided or as SIP MESSAGE back to SIP UA originating the call:


Payload={'event.type': 'CALL.STATE','event.name':'EVENTNAME', 'notification-memo': YOURCUSTOMMEMOPROVIDED,'rate.jurisdiction':CALLJURISDICTION,'carrier.id':ROUTECARRIERID,'rate':ANVEOCALLRATE,'duration':CALLDURATIONSECONDS}

where
• EVENTNAME - either CONNECT when the call is answered, END when the call ended
• YOURCUSTOMMEMOPROVIDED - a value from X-ANVEO-LCR-NOTIFICATION-MEMO
• CALLJURISDICTION - either INTER or INTRA which identifis a call jurisdiction
• ROUTECARRIERID - Carrier/RouteID which is handling the call
• ANVEOCALLRATE - Anveo Direct Calling rate for the call
• CALLDURATIONSECONDS - Call Duration in seconds

Payload string will be either sent to Notification URL or as SIP MESSAGE body.

----------
So much for Anveo Direct reselling LCR services from some mysterious company LOL

TomasEdison
@optonline.net

TomasEdison

Anon

Perhaps thanking SIPRoutes for the concept is in order, instead of taking credit. Not first time Anveo has plagiarized:(
JoeSchmoe007
Premium Member
join:2003-01-19
Brooklyn, NY

JoeSchmoe007 to N9MD

Premium Member

to N9MD

Re: This is getting interesting!

said by N9MD:

Placing a log on the fire, sitting back, putting feet up ... and starting to munch.

Pass the popcorn will ya?
w1ve
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Hancock, NH

w1ve to TomasEdison

Premium Member

to TomasEdison

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

Conceptually, maybe similar to SIProutes, but access wise, not even close.

Gotta love disruptive technology.
anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08

anveo

Premium Member

A new thread is created with LCR Model configuration via SIP Headers and Real-time Call Details notifications »[Anveo Direct] Call Termination Service - LCR Options
anveo

anveo to JoeSchmoe007

Premium Member

to JoeSchmoe007

Re: This is getting interesting!

I guess I was right when I said that Anveo Direct will shake the market
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to w1ve

Premium Member

to w1ve

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

said by w1ve:

Gotta love disruptive technology.

I have good wishes for them, but we will have to see what ensues over the long term.

cf:

Antonio Meucci as the inventor of the telephone. Or Elisha Gray for that matter.

Joseph Wilson Swan. You know, he invented the light bulb.

Philo T. Farnsworth, who invented TV as a teenager. Not that guy Sarnoff.

Gustave Whitehead. He flew an airplane before those Wright Brothers.

Also, the story of US car manufacturer Preston Tucker. Lots of innovation, he was persecuted, prosecuted, and destroyed.

----------------------

Good luck fellas.
rjwells
join:2013-04-29

rjwells to anveo

Member

to anveo
Wow, who knew the VOIP world was such a high drama place!

I really don't think a service like this completes directly with the retail anveo service. It may look like it does, on paper, by offering much cheaper termination, and it may LOOK like there is no minimum cost, but that's an illusion.

There is a minimum cost. This is a service that expects you to fiddle around with the routes and get pretty involved in how your calls are being handled. Likely going to cost the IT guy in your small business at least a half day of his time to figure that out, and probably much more.

That guy costs several hundred bucks a day to keep on the payroll. In most small offices it's just not worth it to have him fiddling with routes and such, the possible savings are dwarfed by his salary cost and the business has better things for him to do.

Same logic for a home consumer -- once the cost of a phone call drops below about a penny most people don't care whether their 40 minutes a day of yapping costs 4c or 40c, what they care about is that when they pick up the phone and dial, it works.

Only a customer with a LOT of phone traffic is going to see this as something that they want to do--everybody else is going to think fiddling with routes is their VOIP vendor's job.

Honestly if you are a consumer or a small business what you are shopping for is reliability, high quality support service, and to a certain extent features. The Anveo retail site is targeted at people like that, the AnveoDirect site probably just looks scary -- "Isn't that what I pay YOU to do?"

Although Anveo doesn't charge a minimum in reality you have to have enough telephone volume that paying your IT guy $500 to set it up is worthwhile--that's the real minimum.

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

1 recommendation

Arne Bolen

Premium Member

said by rjwells:

Likely going to cost the IT guy in your small business at least a half day of his time to figure that out, and probably much more.

If your IT guy needs at least half day of his time to figure this out, you need to replace him.

It took me less than five minutes to figure it out and setting it up and get it to work on my PBXes. It took so long time because I was having my breakfast at the same time.
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1 to rjwells

Premium Member

to rjwells
said by rjwells:

Wow, who knew the VOIP world was such a high drama place!

Oh, yes, we had the CBS daytime drama "VoIP Is a Many Sippered Thing".

And the prime time soap, "Dallas POP".

But the most important is the recurring character (created by William Sydney Porter/O. Henry) who was known as "The Cisco Kid".

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

Arne Bolen to Mango

Premium Member

to Mango
said by Mango:

How would you like to pay $0.00168 for termination to Canada with CNAM?

And what about $0.00113 per minute, that's 0.113 cent, for a call to a cellphone in Florida?
 

Arne Bolen

Arne Bolen to garys_2k

Premium Member

to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

Yeah, I read this and wondered what the underlying carriers' reactions would be.

Maybe: "WOW That means more business for us. Lots of extra revenue."
said by garys_2k:

I guess that's something Anveo is willing to deal with.

Yes I am certain they will, simple by giving them more revenue.
Arne Bolen

1 recommendation

Arne Bolen to Mango

Premium Member

to Mango
said by Mango:

I'm not certain that a PBX is required.

If you don't have your own PBX you could just use PBXes. I do that and it works like a charm.


Arne Bolen

1 recommendation

Arne Bolen to nitzan

Premium Member

to nitzan
said by nitzan:

Seriously doubt they would make a profit on it.

You shouldn't be too sure of that.
said by nitzan:

The race to the bottom is not good for anyone.

But innovation, competition and creativity are good for everyone.
Arne Bolen

Arne Bolen to anveo

Premium Member

to anveo

Re: This is getting interesting!

said by anveo:

I guess I was right when I said that Anveo Direct will shake the market

I'm sure some players on the market are shaking with fear and they will have a bad sleep. In addition to the tremors from Anveo Direct, in a few hours they will wake up and discover that Callcentric has added a sub-accounts feature...

I have a feeling that some players on the market will be hit by several earthquakes in the near future...
PX Eliezer1
Premium Member
join:2013-03-10
Zubrowka USA

PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

said by Arne Bolen:

....in a few hours they will wake up and discover that Callcentric has added a sub-accounts feature....

Looks like good progress, but I will go to sleep now and see how it all comes together in the morning.

CC is calling their subaccount functions "Extensions".

He had gone from horse and buggy, to beyond the stars, in the blink of an eye. He could hardly wait to see what came next.

Harry Turtledove, conclusion of "Homeward Bound" (from memory at 2AM folks).

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

Arne Bolen to Mango

Premium Member

to Mango

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

said by Mango:

How would you like to pay $0.00168 for termination to Canada with CNAM?

If you enjoy reading "The Little Mermaid" by Hans Christian Andersen and you want to call your friend (who uses a cellphone) in that European country to share your delight for the tale, you pay $0.01848 per minute with 1 sec billing at Anveo Direct. That's less than 2 cents per minute!

Looking at another company active on this forum you will find that they charge "slightly" more, $0.1862 with 6 sec billing. That's "only" 10 times more than Anveo Direct.

You could of course try a cheap voip company also active on this forum and you "only" pay $0.0427 per minute for their grey route. That's "only" 2.3 times more expensive than Anveo Direct. If you like to ensure a premium quality you could go for the premium route which is "only" $0.0566 per minute, three times more than Anveo Direct.

I should mention that the audio quality on Anveo Direct is extremely good.

No doubt Anveo Direct will cause headaches for many competing voip providers.
nitzan
Premium Member
join:2008-02-27

nitzan

Premium Member

If you're going to post "examples" of other providers versus Anveo Direct please post the provider name and exact prefix so these facts can actually be verified - for all we know you made up these rates. I have no idea which providers you are referencing but if it's us then our grey rates to Denmark are actually lower than the rates you mention.

Arne Bolen
User of Anveo Direct, 3CX and Qubes OS.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-21
Utopia

Arne Bolen

Premium Member

said by nitzan:

I have no idea which providers you are referencing but if it's us then our grey rates to Denmark are actually lower than the rates you mention.

If that's the case you need to have a serious chat with your webmaster.

I'm sure you can recognize what provider the screenshots (last six digits replaced with X for privacy reasons) below are from.




Arne Bolen

Arne Bolen to PX Eliezer1

Premium Member

to PX Eliezer1

Re: This is getting interesting!

said by PX Eliezer1:

CC is calling their subaccount functions "Extensions".

I thought they were going to add sub-accounts. But now when the upgrade is finished I can see they have made a real nice and elegant solution with extensions.

Congrats to Callcentric for such good solution. That will for sure move some customers with the need for multiple SIP devices on the same account over to Callcentric.

In a few years we are likely to see an AC VoIP market. Not Alternating Current, but users making the choice between Anveo or Callcentric.

shootfoot
@ecatel.net

shootfoot to anveo

Anon

to anveo

Re: [Anveo Direct] Launches Innovative Call Termination Service

said by anveo :

I have no idea who you are ( i only see some anonymous poster who looks like is affected by the launch of Anveo Direct service).

I'm a guy (or maybe a gal) on the internet, same as everyone else in these forums. Other readers and posters here can decide whether what I'm saying has any merit, or whether I'm full of sh*t. You're also just a guy/gal on the internet, but one that I think we can safely assume is either one of the principals of Anveo, or an employee of them.

People can believe me or not, but as I said before I really have no horse in this race, and I don't work for any of Anveo's competitors. I have however been involved in various telecom businesses over many many years, and yes it does bother me when I see things that in my opinion are detrimental to the industry.
said by shootfoot :

I'll also note that the 3 carriers you mentioned:
BICS , IDT , Tata
aren't in the screenshot.

said by anveo :

You can say anything you like, however, if you were paying attention to details than you would notice the very last screenshot in the URL you provided which shows other carriers I mentioned

Here it is »/speak ··· ZpY2U%3D

You're helping to prove my point. Those three carriers are in a tab labeled "A-Z Termination", whereas the list of carriers I mentioned are all in the tab "US Canada Only". The carrier/service provider I'm talking about ONLY takes termination traffic for US/Canada. So I believe you're connected to at least those three directly, but I don't believe you're directly connected to all the others, and rather are re-selling that other company's service.

There's NOTHING wrong with doing that, and I have no problem with that, and that's a big part of doing termination at small to mid-size levels - using aggregators.

What I really took "offense" to was:
1. Your press-release like language:
said by anveo :

Not often you see a new product announcement which will have a great impact on the future technology and services offered in VOIP market place. Today is one of those days.
****
... It is possible due to 'thinking outside the box' approach and highly experienced R&D team.
****
And now with the same spirit Anveo team is launching a new Anveo Direct call termination service which will shake the market with innovative features and flexibility/quality it offers.

Another poster used the word "plagiarize", I think that's the simplest way to describe what I'm saying, and I should have said it before.

2. That you're giving wholesale prices to essentially anyone.
There's no law against that, it's not immoral/un-ethical, but I think it's fundamentally detrimental to the industry.
said by anveo :

So please stop spreading misinformation about Anveo Direct service.

I don't believe I've spread any misinformation, and I leave it to the other readers here to again decide whether what I've said has any merit to it, or for you to directly respond to actual points I've made, which you really haven't about the critical points (see 1 and 2 above for the main thrust of what I'm saying). If you don't want to respond to them, I understand and I'm OK with that too, I've made my points pretty clearly.

Further down in the thread, this was said:
said by Arne Bolen :

Translation: Excellent product for VoIP users and they will praise Anveo.
Bad for competitors and they will not praise Anveo.

I agree, a very good product for end users, assuming they get how it works, and take the good pricing with the potential quality issues that may come up from time to time. It is "bad" for some competitors, and surely they're not happy about it. I don't work for any competitor of Anveo, so I'm not worried personally, although I still stand by my comments above.

I've thought and said the same things to industry people when Skype launched their $13.99 / month "unlimited" world calling which also breaks the market in a similar way that this does, and also MagicJack, and Ooma (when they intitially offered "unlimited" service with zero monthly charges, just the cost of the hardware) in the same vein. I'm sure some of the companies often discussed here like VoIP.ms, Callcentric, Future-Nine, VoIPo, etc get asked by customers and potential customers from time-to-time why they don't offer the same things as Skype/MagicJack/Ooma at the same or lower pricing.
shootfoot

shootfoot to PX Eliezer1

Anon

to PX Eliezer1
said by shootfoot :

That said, Nitzan seems to do the same thing - to an extent - with Future-Nine and cheapvoipinc.

said by Gershom 1624 :

I think that Future-Nine and CheapVoipInc serve rather different markets.

F9 has several types of calling plans to choose from, all of which include both inbound (DID) and outbound (termination) service, many features, and 911 service.

CheapVoipInc has a strong focus on discounted outbound (termination) services only.

Different clienteles.

Gershom 1624 (or should I say XX Elxxxxr )
I agree, there is some differentiation there, that's why I hedged my statement with "- to an extent -".

The diference is less subtle with Anveo / Anveodirect, because as w1ve said:
said by w1ve :

Question for Anveo: Since there are no minimum requirements, and I have a PBX, can I move my DIDs from Anveo Retail site to Anveo Direct? I'd save a bunch of money!

Which the answer is apparently a "yes".

P.S. Glad to see you decided to return here.