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chrisretusn
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reply to bbear2

Re: Yahoo email forced upgrade (again)

I've have four Yahoo! Accounts (all free). I switched to the new interface ages ago.

New or Classic, neither one is great. I like the new one (it's not that new anymore) interface better. Things change, I adapt.

I use my email client most of the time anyway, so changes don't bother me that much.

I use POP3 on two of my accounts almost exclusively. The other two I use both the web interface and IMAP, with IMAP being the predominate one.

I do log in to all four via the web interface at least twice a year or so to make sure that stay active.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!


bbear2
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chrisretusn: Since you use both POP3 and IMAP, I was wondering if you could share why you use both and how you decided to use which and when?



chrisretusn
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Sure. I prefer to use POP3 on all of my accounts, I have several. The reason I use POP3 is because I want to download and delete all messages from the server. I am a bit old fashioned in this regard. I still do email as I always have when POP3 was the norm and most servers had limited space and no web interface. I do not need to access these accounts on multiple devices. Just from this computer and occasionally a laptop I take on the road. In the case of the laptop I synchronize the email store with my desktop before I hit the road. When I get back I sync the laptop to the desktop.

I use IMAP on a couple of accounts because I am a temporary user of those accounts. These accounts came with the positions I hold in organizations I belong to. I took them over from someone else, eventually I will turn them over to another. I prefer my client interface over any web interface and sometime I need to access these accounts via the web interface. Using IMAP allows me use both my client and web interface, plus keeps the accounts ready to be turned over to the next person elected or appointed to the positions I now hold.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!


bbear2
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said by chrisretusn:

Sure. I prefer to use POP3 on all of my accounts, I have several. The reason I use POP3 is because I want to download and delete all messages from the server. I am a bit old fashioned in this regard. I still do email as I always have when POP3 was the norm and most servers had limited space and no web interface. I do not need to access these accounts on multiple devices. Just from this computer and occasionally a laptop I take on the road. In the case of the laptop I synchronize the email store with my desktop before I hit the road. When I get back I sync the laptop to the desktop.

I use IMAP on a couple of accounts because I am a temporary user of those accounts. These accounts came with the positions I hold in organizations I belong to. I took them over from someone else, eventually I will turn them over to another. I prefer my client interface over any web interface and sometime I need to access these accounts via the web interface. Using IMAP allows me use both my client and web interface, plus keeps the accounts ready to be turned over to the next person elected or appointed to the positions I now hold.

So are you saying that with POP3, you have the option of your email client deleting messages off of the server; but with IMAP that option doesn't exist. And then in both cases you could use something like Outlook and have the email downloaded to your local client and read the emails directly from there. Do I have this right?


chrisretusn
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3 edits

First just to be clear, when I say client I am referring to a locally installed client on your machine. My current client is Claws Mail, my absolute favorite client was PocoMail and is what I used before I switched to Claws Mail, sadly PocoMail is no more.

I refer to the web interface on a server as a exactly that. That is what you are using when you access your email via your browser.

said by bbear2:

So are you saying that with POP3, you have the option of your email client deleting messages off of the server;

Yes. When you do a "Get Mail" from the client. (Wording varies from client to client.) POP protocol was designed to simply download all messages from the server Inbox, then delete them from the server. Most clients by default delete messages from the server when using POP3. Many people do not understand this and wonder what happened to their messages on the server. POP3 also only works with one folder at a time. This is normally the Inbox. Back in the old days the Inbox was all you had anyway.

Claws Mail, PocoMail, Thunderbird and Outlook all delete messages from the server by default. In the case of Claws Mail, it has this receive option: "Remove messages on server when received" (checked), with "Remove after __ days __ hours" (set to 7 days). PocoMail's has "Leave Mail on Server" (not checked) with sub-options to "Remove after __ days (not checked, set to 0) and "Remove from server when emptied from Trash". (not checked). Thunderbird has "Leave messages on server" (checked) and two sub-options "For at most __ days" (checked, set to 14) and "Until I delete them" (checked). Outlook simply has "Leave a copy of messages on the server" (not checked).

Now there are services such as Gmail and Inbox.com that do not follow the rules. With Gmail you have to tell Gmail in it's settings what to do with messages that are POP'd. With Inbox.com, I need to log in periodically to delete messages from the Inbox as it ignores the POP3 DELE command "for my own good" as they put it.

but with IMAP that option doesn't exist.

Depends on your email client. Some do, some don't, have the option. My current client does not. The one I used before this one did. Anyway IMAP was not designed to be "popped". As in fetch and delete with a "Get Mail"

IMAP is completely different than POP3. It main purpose is to synchronize between the client and the server. When I use the servers web interface for reading new messages, sending messages, deleted messages, moving messages to other folders in the account, these changes will not be seen in my client until the next time I connect to the server. When I do a "Get Mail" in my client, for example, it connects to the server and synchronizes with all of my message folders on the server. When it's finished, my local client message store is the same as my server message store.

When I use my client I am normally connected so changes in my client are instantly reflected on the server. So reading, send, moving, deleting, marking as spam, etc are reflect on the server in real time (or at least as fast as my connection allows).

If I am not connected to the Internet, all of the messages since my last connection are available to read, print, delete, etc.; obviously any new messages would not be there, nor will I be able to send. I can queue messages for sending when I am connected though. When I connect, those changes are synchronized with the server.

Keep in mind some of what I have described above about IMAP depends on the client and how it is set up. Also some servers, Gmail for example, do not follow the rules.

And then in both cases you could use something like Outlook and have the email downloaded to your local client and read the emails directly from there. Do I have this right?

Yes, that is what I do right now. Of course you have this right. Though I would not call it a right per-say. Outlook has both POP3 and IMAP capabilities. I used Outlook back in my working days, but mostly via an exchange server. When I say Outlook I am referring program Outlook, not Outlook.com.

As another example of my use of IMAP with one of my organizational accounts I have Claw Mail setup to use IMAP on the organizations laptop. There are times I want to access that account from this computer I am typing on now. I simply log in via my browser and do what I need to do. Later, when I am on the laptop I can "Get Mail" using Claws Mail to synchronize it with what ever I did while working from this computer via the web interface.

One last thing. With IMAP it is critical that you have some sort of archive or backup of the messages on your local computer saved outside that IMAP account. If ProviderX some how deletes all of your messages on the server, and you connect locally that could potentially wipe out your local messages too. Again this depends on how you have your client setup. I have a daily backup system in place.

Hope I didn't over do it on my explanation.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!

bbear2
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Chris, Thanks for that detailed usage information. So if you were to consult with someone about which to use and when, what would be your 1 or 2 line use case for each?



mackey
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said by bbear2:

So if you were to consult with someone about which to use and when, what would be your 1 or 2 line use case for each?

POP is fine when you only have 1 device. It's a bit more secure in that should the password get compromised it'll only reveal messages received after that; older messages have been deleted off the server and thus are not accessible. However, as the only copy is on your computer, if your computer or hard drive dies all your messages are gone.

IMAP is great when you have multiple devices. It allows you to read and respond/create on say your phone and when you get back to your computer those messages will be marked as read and your response will be in your sent folder. It's a bit safer in that if your computer or hard drive dies all your messages are safe on the server.

/M


chrisretusn
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reply to bbear2

said by bbear2:

Chris, Thanks for that detailed usage information. So if you were to consult with someone about which to use and when, what would be your 1 or 2 line use case for each?

One or twos line each? I'll try

If you do not want or need to store your messages on the server, use POP3. You can use POP3 from multiple devices, simply leave messages on the server with all but your main device used to store the messages.

If you want to organize your messages in multiple folders on the server, use IMAP. If you want the sever to be your main storage device for messages use IMAP. IMAP simplifies accessing your messages from multiple devices.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!


chrisretusn
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reply to mackey

said by mackey:

POP is fine when you only have 1 device. It's a bit more secure in that should the password get compromised it'll only reveal messages received after that; older messages have been deleted off the server and thus are not accessible. However, as the only copy is on your computer, if your computer or hard drive dies all your messages are gone.

A bit more secure? Not really but I do understand the point being made. If messages are being left on the server it's a moot point. Regarding only copy is on your computer, it that is so, then if your hard drive goes, you are the only one to blame. Backups, backups, backups.

It's a bit safer in that if your computer or hard drive dies all your messages are safe on the server.

Again, not really. There are many instances of server messages being "accidentally" deleted from the server. Backups.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!

bbear2
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Thanks for all the replies, it is becoming clearer. Another question:

Would it make sense to say POP3 to my main PC using Outlook; and then IMAP to a mobile phone for the same server email account? And then also occasionally use a browser to that same account?

If so, does that mean all of the email on the server also get's sent/stored (sync'd) to the mobile phone?

Are you also saying that with POP3 only the INTRAY is copied to the client, but with IMAP, the INTRAY and all subfolders are also sent to the client? My concern would be that too much data is being sent (and stored) on the phone with IMAP.



dcurrey
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Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

With IMAP unless you change the default settings in the client to be able to read messages offline the messages stay on the server. Messages never actually get downloaded to phone

Pop3 will only read whats in the inbox. Once done default setting usually is then to delete mail from server. Again this can easily be changed to leave messages on server or delete them once you delete them in client.

Webmail functions more or less like imap. Messages remain on server.



chrisretusn
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reply to bbear2

Before I answer I am going to make a some assumptions. One you want to have all of your messages accessible from your main PC and from your mobile phone. Two you want to have a copy of all messages stored locally on your main PC and be able to access them while off-line.

said by bbear2:

Would it make sense to say POP3 to my main PC using Outlook; and then IMAP to a mobile phone for the same server email account? And then also occasionally use a browser to that same account?

Not really. I would use IMAP in this case. You can set IMAP to synchronize for off-line use on the main PC. On the mobile phone you would not want to do this. Synchronize for off-line use is normally turned off in most clients so it is something you would have to enable.

If so, does that mean all of the email on the server also get's sent/stored (sync'd) to the mobile phone?

No. On the mobile phone, the only things synchronized would be the folder structure and messages headers, the message body would stay on the server until you select it. Then that particular message body is download so you can read it.

Are you also saying that with POP3 only the INTRAY is copied to the client,

Yes. Only the InTray is "downloaded". Remember the default in most clients is to delete messages off the server. Copied would be accurate only if you opted to leave messages on the server.

but with IMAP, the INTRAY and all subfolders are also sent to the client? My concern would be that too much data is being sent (and stored) on the phone with IMAP.

Yes and no. Depends on how you have IMAP setup. As long as your are not using synchronize for off-line use on the mobile phone it should be all that bad. You do not have to "Get Mail" with IMAP, you can simple just select the Inbox or InTray or any other folder in your account and that folder will update. What is updated in the message headers only, the body stays on the server until you select a message.

As I have stated before, all of the above depends on your client, it settings and the server, in some cases server settings.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!

bbear2
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said by chrisretusn:

Before I answer I am going to make a some assumptions. One you want to have all of your messages accessible from your main PC and from your mobile phone. Two you want to have a copy of all messages stored locally on your main PC and be able to access them while off-line.

Yes. I'll also add that I have it set up on main PC with POP3 and that is working well for me. What I'd like to do is to add phone access, but not have to download everything to the phone. I also leave the messages on the server with POP3 until they are deleted.

I have been playing around with IMAP to the phone with a test account and have not found a way to configure leaving messages on the server or not. There are very few choices in that regard. I believe it is the standard Android email app that I am using on the phone (not sure).