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elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

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elitefx

Member

Bell 12% POTS Line Increase June 1st

Well, Bell is at it again. Victimizing seniors, the physically disabled and shutins. Here comes a 12% Bell POTS Line Increase June 1st. $3.00 increase on the monthly telephone bill. Going from $27 to $30 plus HST. What a friggin disgrace. Forcing 80 and 90 year old customers to pay through the nose for the only connection to the outside world they have. Bell certainly can't claim it's for network upgrades. POTS lines haven't changed in 50 years.

Bell, you're an embarassment to Canada.......

»www.bell.ca/Residential_ ··· _updates
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

I seriously doubt Bell would target a price increase specifically at seniors, disabled and shut ins. I'm quite certain the price increase goes across the board to all customers.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

What elitefx is saying is that generally seniors will stick with land lines and not opt for cellular, or VoIP etc. Whilst costs have gone up, 12% is high.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...
Expand your moderator at work

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

elitefx to HeadSpinning

Member

to HeadSpinning

Re: Bell 12% POTS Line Increase June 1st

said by HeadSpinning:

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...

Not spin this time my friend. Bible truth. POTS is a lifeline to the sick and aged. I see it everyday. People die if they can't have reliable affordable access to 911 immediately.

People on fixed incomes can't afford luxury. That's why all they have is POTS. There was no need for Bell to increase POTS. Those lines have been bought and paid for a million times over.

Bell might not be targeting seniors, the physically disabled and shutins but they're the ones who will truly suffer from Bell's ill thought plans.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by elitefx:

said by HeadSpinning:

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...

Not spin this time my friend. Bible truth. POTS is a lifeline to the sick and aged. I see it everyday. People die if they can't have reliable affordable access to 911 immediately.

People on fixed incomes can't afford luxury. That's why all they have is POTS. There was no need for Bell to increase POTS. Those lines have been bought and paid for a million times over.

Bell might not be targeting seniors, the physically disabled and shutins but they're the ones who will truly suffer from Bell's ill thought plans.

Isn't there cable phone ?

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

1 edit

zong to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
Wow. I just checked my bill, same $2.77 increase.

What a bunch of scam artists.

And for the record, I'm mid thirties, but no, I will not be losing my landline (I have on services on it and everything is denied).

Before anyone asks, if I am stuck paying 12 bucks a month (Band Rate D) then I might as well double the price and have a dialtone. Now, it's almost triple the price. Alas.
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf

Member

You can get cable internet for $25 from Teksavvy plus $5 or so for a voip.ms line (might cost a bit more if you talk a lot). So for the same price as a Bell POTS line you can have 6/1.5 75GB internet (in Cogeco territory) plus a phone line with all the features (voicemail, call display, etc.).

You can also get DSL, I know Ebox has $32.95 for 15/1 (no dryloop fee) 150GB package, plus another $5 or so for voip.ms. You're looking at less than $10 more (or about 3 years of Bell hikes) for the price of a Bell POTS line.

I had a Bell POTS line when I moved into my house. Hesitated going to VoIP earlier, but when my Bell line got so bad that people couldn't hear me through the static on the line (and Bell came back 3 times to fix it, but it kept coming back), I realized that VoIP couldn't be worse than POTS, and in the end it hasn't been. The static on my POTS line didn't affect my DSL either.

Other than sticking with what they know, I'm not sure what the advantages of POTS are anymore over VoIP. Hook up your equipment to a UPS and you're good as gold.

But then again, millions sign up for internet with the incumbents even though there are much more cost effective alternatives out there. I'm no defender of Bell, but there are options.

It's quite insulting too I would think to 80 and 90 year olds to suggest they can't adapt. A family friend of mine who's 86 this year has VoIP through cable and my wife's 87 year old grandfather is quite tech savvy and probably knows more about computers than a lot of kids today who just know how to get on facebook.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

said by markf:

It's quite insulting too I would think to 80 and 90 year olds to suggest they can't adapt. A family friend of mine who's 86 this year has VoIP through cable and my wife's 87 year old grandfather is quite tech savvy and probably knows more about computers than a lot of kids today who just know how to get on facebook.

It's not about adapting to new technology, as a VoIP setup with an ATA would operate exactly the same way as POTS. The issue the OP is referring to is that many seniors, especially those with health issues rely on POTS due to it's reliability. With VoIP service there are multiple potential failure points that the end consumer cannot control.
yyzlhr

yyzlhr to kovy7

Member

to kovy7
said by kovy7:

said by elitefx:

said by HeadSpinning:

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...

Not spin this time my friend. Bible truth. POTS is a lifeline to the sick and aged. I see it everyday. People die if they can't have reliable affordable access to 911 immediately.

People on fixed incomes can't afford luxury. That's why all they have is POTS. There was no need for Bell to increase POTS. Those lines have been bought and paid for a million times over.

Bell might not be targeting seniors, the physically disabled and shutins but they're the ones who will truly suffer from Bell's ill thought plans.

Isn't there cable phone ?

Cable telephony costs pretty much the same as POTS and generally does not offer the same kind of reliability despite the marketing claims that cable companies put out.
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf to yyzlhr

Member

to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

It's not about adapting to new technology, as a VoIP setup with an ATA would operate exactly the same way as POTS. The issue the OP is referring to is that many seniors, especially those with health issues rely on POTS due to it's reliability. With VoIP service there are multiple potential failure points that the end consumer cannot control.

Based on my experience, POTS would have failed where E911 Voip passed. Had to use 911 once, when I was on POTS there would be monthly 3-5 day periods where it was too staticy to hear anything. I didn't have that problem with VoIP and things worked out well.

They could also go with VoIP and keep an old cell phone charged. It wouldn't even need active service to work.

If Bell said, no price increase, but a reliability decrease (which is what would happen - profits won't fall) they'd be in the same boat anyways.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

said by markf:

said by yyzlhr:

It's not about adapting to new technology, as a VoIP setup with an ATA would operate exactly the same way as POTS. The issue the OP is referring to is that many seniors, especially those with health issues rely on POTS due to it's reliability. With VoIP service there are multiple potential failure points that the end consumer cannot control.

Based on my experience, POTS would have failed where E911 Voip passed. Had to use 911 once, when I was on POTS there would be monthly 3-5 day periods where it was too staticy to hear anything. I didn't have that problem with VoIP and things worked out well.

They could also go with VoIP and keep an old cell phone charged. It wouldn't even need active service to work.

If Bell said, no price increase, but a reliability decrease (which is what would happen - profits won't fall) they'd be in the same boat anyways.

It's generally accepted that POTS is far more reliable than VoIP. If there was ever a scientific study conducted on this, I would be willing to bet money that they would conclude that POTS is significantly more reliable than VoIP.

I have an alarm system that connects over POTS and it will give us a warning when the phone line is not functional. In the last twelve years, we've only gotten that warning once.

In contrast, my cable drop has been cut three times due to construction and maintenance work by the city, causing my internet to go out. In addition, it took Rogers on average of three days to have someone come out to replace the drop. When you combine this with power outages and other internet outages and potential downtime with the VoIP provider, you end up with a lot of uncertainty.

Even in your scenario where there is too much static on the line to hear anyone. The fact that you can connect to a 911 centre means that someone will be dispatched to your address even though they can't communicate with you. If someone had a medical emergency where they couldn't communicate with the dispatcher and they tried to call 911 when the VoIP service is down and then they tried to call from an unactivated cell phone, it would severely delay the response. Cell tower triangulation often does not allow emergency personnel to track that a caller's location with enough accuracy.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

1 edit

kovy7 to yyzlhr

Member

to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

Cable telephony costs pretty much the same as POTS and generally does not offer the same kind of reliability despite the marketing claims that cable companies put out.

So Bell is only pricing the service with other who offer a similar service ?

Both have pretty high reliability.

POTS is a dieing service... even for FTTH it's not POTS.

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

zong to yyzlhr

Premium Member

to yyzlhr
This is correct.

And if there is static on the line, Bell 611 service is required to fix it. And yes, even if you open the line up, 911 can hold it open as a safety measure and the addressing is far superior to E911.

Also, most CO's have extensive backup power that can go for days. The last major blackout, I never lost phone service. Nor DSL for that matter. Try sending faxes RELIABLY over FOIP/VOIP. You can't. I deal with it every day. And there are some places I deal with that you literally are required to communicate some things by fax.

Anyone who says VOIP is more reliable, has better sound quality, or is better overall (for anything except being cheaper) really has no experience.
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf to yyzlhr

Member

to yyzlhr
Ok, I'll give you the reliability point on 911 calls.

In terms of cable cuts, it is just as likely that a phone cable gets cut as a cable wire. If it's underground, I'm assuming they are in fairly close proximity. As I mentioned in my case, it takes Bell 3 - 5 days to come out and fix a line so that's about the same.

Bell is required to fix the line, but they take their sweet time doing it.

I'd be interested in the numbers surrounding POTS maintenance and subscriptions. I would hazard a guess that POTS subscribers are falling quite quickly while maintenance costs probably are not. The marginal cost of each new POTS subscriber is probably fairly low, so as each one drops, costs do not drop very much at all. In order to maintain profitability (Bell is not a charity, yes they essentially got subsidized infrastructure for POTS, but they still need to make some profit off of it), the remaining subscribers have to bear the maintenance burden.

If you keep a POTS line for reliability, then you have to understand there are costs associated with reliability no matter what the service. It sucks for some people, but so does every price increase.

If you need the line for faxes on a regular enough basis that you keep a POTS line for that, then whatever business you are conducting somehow needs to eat that cost.

POTS is on the way out and costs per subscriber will keep going up until it is completely killed off and replaced by VoIP services.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
The flip-side of people migrating away from POTS is simple...

The fixed costs remain the same; but get's amortized across fewer subs... Therefore, cost per line has to increase.

POTS is basically revenue neutral; features are the profitable side of things, in the voice world.

The switch still needs to be powered, cooled, and maintained; and it's basically no difference in operating costs between 1000 lines or 100,000 lines.

Some ILECs are collapsing legacy switches, to drive down POTS cost, but that takes a fair whack of money to implement. It takes a lot of planning, engineering, and building new remotes and concentrators, to support turning an old switch "off" and re-homing the lines to a different switch.

I get that increases in cost suck - I don't like paying more for things, either - but taking the emotion of out it; No company (including Bell) is in business to lose money...
LazMan

LazMan to markf

Premium Member

to markf
said by markf:

Based on my experience, POTS would have failed where E911 Voip passed. Had to use 911 once, when I was on POTS there would be monthly 3-5 day periods where it was too staticy to hear anything. I didn't have that problem with VoIP and things worked out well.

Did you call in the trouble to 611? Bell's very good about (and legally required) to repair voice lines in a timely fashion; due to life-safety constraints...

As an aside - some well-known VoIP providers (I'm looking at you, Vonage) have gone out of their way to NOT be labelled telephone companys, and instead are "Voice application providers" to avoid life-safety regulations, including up-time during power outages, and MTTR measurements...

I'm in the business - both as a former I&R and CO tech, and as a firefighter - I know 911 from both sides - POTS is the most reliable, cable 'phone' - would be second, true VoIP would be a distant 3rd...

Internet outages, power problems, poor records, etc, etc - there's just so many places a VoIP setup can go sideways...
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf

Member

said by LazMan:

Did you call in the trouble to 611? Bell's very good about (and legally required) to repair voice lines in a timely fashion; due to life-safety constraints...

I did, each time. I guess 3 - 5 days was timely at the time. It happened in the fall for two years and would happen once a month for 3 months in a row each time for a total of 6 outages before I gave up.

It was difficult to get fixed... static on line + language barrier with the Bell staff meant a very frustrating experience. The best was when they would say they couldn't hear me because the static on the line and I'd have to yell "that's the problem I need fixed" just so they could hear me.

There will have to be some sort of VoIP solution because POTS is on its way out.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

When i had static on the line a few years ago, I called Bell 611 and they came the next day, determined that both pairs in the buried service wire were damaged, ran a temp to my neighbours, and in a couple months they did a repair of the buried wire. They didnt replace the actual wire to the street, but likely a bad splice as they only dug a hole at the curb where the wires were likely spliced.

I have no problems since.

LazMan
Premium Member
join:2003-03-26
Beverly Hills, CA

LazMan to markf

Premium Member

to markf
Intermittent static can be a pig to isolate and repair; so can't give them too much grief - but multiple repeats on the same issue, is a bigger problem, to me.

Anyways...

There are hybrid solutions being tried - CLECs and ILECs using VoIP remotes, then traditional copper loops from the remote to the house... Cost savings from dumping the traditional trunking and switching, but the fixed copper loop means location and records are solid, and being centralized at at CO or remote, means power and network connections are less variable.

I agree that POTS is in decline, totally - it's just how to best react to that fact, that's open for debate...

Jackorama
I Am Woman
Premium Member
join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

Jackorama to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
said by elitefx:

said by HeadSpinning:

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...

Not spin this time my friend. Bible truth. POTS is a lifeline to the sick and aged. I see it everyday. People die if they can't have reliable affordable access to 911 immediately.

People on fixed incomes can't afford luxury. That's why all they have is POTS. There was no need for Bell to increase POTS. Those lines have been bought and paid for a million times over.

Bell might not be targeting seniors, the physically disabled and shutins but they're the ones who will truly suffer from Bell's ill thought plans.

This is the concern I had when my parents, who are senors and have many health problems, left Bell for phone service with the cable company they use. They were fed up with the constant price increases from Bell with no upgrades with the service.

911 is a regular occurrence (about 1 to 2 times a month) with them and I am happy to say they have had no problems what so ever getting ambulance service with 911, most recent was last week. They both have a cell phone as well for back up if needed. A few times my mom's emergency system box will call out in the middle of the night when the phone service is down, but she's not worried because she has her cell beside the bed and it doesn't happen that often.

They had tv and internet with the cable company before and adding the phone made the price really attractive. The thing is that the cable company does do price increases as well, but they also give up grades at no extra charge. The cable company just had my parents internet speed and cap raised at no extra charge.

On a side note. I have a Bell "Resident" line, not their "Home Phone" service. I have checked all the notice area on my bills and checked my online account, I have had no notice of an increase for phone. The last increase was in Jan. for internet. Is this increase just for Bell customers that only have phone and not internet?

If there is an increase on my next bill. I am just going to switch to cable. My parents get higher speeds and caps for $20 dollars less a month and a phone that is half of what I pay Bell. I only stayed with Bell because I didn't have any problems with service outages, but now I think I will put up with a having some problems with service outages for a cheaper price.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook

Mod

Residential service means you're on a CRTC regulated service ... lucky you. "Home Phone" is a deregulated plan because supposedly there is enough competition in that area to keep prices down. Yeah, Right! Pigs might fly too!

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

zong

Premium Member

Click for full size
Sbrook / Jackorama:

Check again. I'm on "Residence Line" but "my Home Phone" service will be going up. Did Bell screw up? This is a cap of my bill, with my number blacked out.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook to elitefx

Mod

to elitefx
Ahh ... it's all the non-regulated services attached to the line that turn it into a deregulated line! Bad luck.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt to sbrook

Premium Member

to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Residential service means you're on a CRTC regulated service ... lucky you. "Home Phone" is a deregulated plan because supposedly there is enough competition in that area to keep prices down. Yeah, Right! Pigs might fly too!

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by HiVolt:

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.

Show me one post where Teksavvy said that Bell is DENYING them transfers.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by HeadSpinning:

said by HiVolt:

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.

Show me one post where Teksavvy said that Bell is DENYING them transfers.

Pretty sure it's teksavvy whos "limiting" the customer for X reasons we're still unclear of.

HiVolt
Premium Member
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON

HiVolt

Premium Member

Yes TekSavvy said its them who are "limiting" it but i guarantee its bell that put a stop to it. Teksavvy cant tell us why likely because of their agreement with bell.

Its not a tariffed service so bell can do as they please, and they are.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by HiVolt:

Yes TekSavvy said its them who are "limiting" it but i guarantee its bell that put a stop to it. Teksavvy cant tell us why likely because of their agreement with bell.

Its not a tariffed service so bell can do as they please, and they are.

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.