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LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to markf

Re: Bell 12% POTS Line Increase June 1st

Intermittent static can be a pig to isolate and repair; so can't give them too much grief - but multiple repeats on the same issue, is a bigger problem, to me.

Anyways...

There are hybrid solutions being tried - CLECs and ILECs using VoIP remotes, then traditional copper loops from the remote to the house... Cost savings from dumping the traditional trunking and switching, but the fixed copper loop means location and records are solid, and being centralized at at CO or remote, means power and network connections are less variable.

I agree that POTS is in decline, totally - it's just how to best react to that fact, that's open for debate...


Jackorama

join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON
reply to elitefx
said by elitefx:

said by HeadSpinning:

I realize that, but he always posts with spin...

Not spin this time my friend. Bible truth. POTS is a lifeline to the sick and aged. I see it everyday. People die if they can't have reliable affordable access to 911 immediately.

People on fixed incomes can't afford luxury. That's why all they have is POTS. There was no need for Bell to increase POTS. Those lines have been bought and paid for a million times over.

Bell might not be targeting seniors, the physically disabled and shutins but they're the ones who will truly suffer from Bell's ill thought plans.

This is the concern I had when my parents, who are senors and have many health problems, left Bell for phone service with the cable company they use. They were fed up with the constant price increases from Bell with no upgrades with the service.

911 is a regular occurrence (about 1 to 2 times a month) with them and I am happy to say they have had no problems what so ever getting ambulance service with 911, most recent was last week. They both have a cell phone as well for back up if needed. A few times my mom's emergency system box will call out in the middle of the night when the phone service is down, but she's not worried because she has her cell beside the bed and it doesn't happen that often.

They had tv and internet with the cable company before and adding the phone made the price really attractive. The thing is that the cable company does do price increases as well, but they also give up grades at no extra charge. The cable company just had my parents internet speed and cap raised at no extra charge.

On a side note. I have a Bell "Resident" line, not their "Home Phone" service. I have checked all the notice area on my bills and checked my online account, I have had no notice of an increase for phone. The last increase was in Jan. for internet. Is this increase just for Bell customers that only have phone and not internet?

If there is an increase on my next bill. I am just going to switch to cable. My parents get higher speeds and caps for $20 dollars less a month and a phone that is half of what I pay Bell. I only stayed with Bell because I didn't have any problems with service outages, but now I think I will put up with a having some problems with service outages for a cheaper price.
--
"Whenever they invent something that's moron proof, someone comes by and invents a better moron."

"Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?"

"Those of you who think you know everything are annoying those of us who do."


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Residential service means you're on a CRTC regulated service ... lucky you. "Home Phone" is a deregulated plan because supposedly there is enough competition in that area to keep prices down. Yeah, Right! Pigs might fly too!


zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·mycybernet.net
·Switchworks
Click for full size
Sbrook / Jackorama:

Check again. I'm on "Residence Line" but "my Home Phone" service will be going up. Did Bell screw up? This is a cap of my bill, with my number blacked out.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to elitefx
Ahh ... it's all the non-regulated services attached to the line that turn it into a deregulated line! Bad luck.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Residential service means you're on a CRTC regulated service ... lucky you. "Home Phone" is a deregulated plan because supposedly there is enough competition in that area to keep prices down. Yeah, Right! Pigs might fly too!

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.
--


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by HiVolt:

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.

Show me one post where Teksavvy said that Bell is DENYING them transfers.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
said by HeadSpinning:

said by HiVolt:

Yeah amazing competition, that Bell will not allow a transfer to TekSavvy's home phone (resold bell POTS) after they lost a shitload of customers to it because of the fair pricing TekSavvy has especially on the features like $3 for CID vs $11.95 on Bell.

Show me one post where Teksavvy said that Bell is DENYING them transfers.

Pretty sure it's teksavvy whos "limiting" the customer for X reasons we're still unclear of.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
Yes TekSavvy said its them who are "limiting" it but i guarantee its bell that put a stop to it. Teksavvy cant tell us why likely because of their agreement with bell.

Its not a tariffed service so bell can do as they please, and they are.
--


HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
said by HiVolt:

Yes TekSavvy said its them who are "limiting" it but i guarantee its bell that put a stop to it. Teksavvy cant tell us why likely because of their agreement with bell.

Its not a tariffed service so bell can do as they please, and they are.

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


zed173

join:2010-07-17
Mississauga, ON
reply to kovy7
As with most things I'm pretty sure it has to do with money, in this case probably a safe bet to say their margins are much higher on their VOIP service compared to reselling POTS.

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
said by zed173:

As with most things I'm pretty sure it has to do with money, in this case probably a safe bet to say their margins are much higher on their VOIP service compared to reselling POTS.

That's probably that answer... cause who else is selling Bell pots ?

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
reply to markf
said by markf:

Ok, I'll give you the reliability point on 911 calls.

In terms of cable cuts, it is just as likely that a phone cable gets cut as a cable wire. If it's underground, I'm assuming they are in fairly close proximity. As I mentioned in my case, it takes Bell 3 - 5 days to come out and fix a line so that's about the same.

I'm not so sure about that. My street sees a lot of maintenance for some reason and the city is always digging extensively summer. My cable drop has been cut 3 times by maintenance work, and my neighbours have had similar experiences as well. During these periods of construction and maintenance Rogers is alway out in full force pulling temp drops to everyone's home. It got so bad that if you looked up all you would see is a web of temp coax drops criss crossing through trees. At the same time, I have never had my POTS line cut nor have I ever seen a Bell truck on my street during those times repairing anything.

kovy7

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8
reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

said by HeadSpinning:

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.

So you're saying Bell is being anti competitive on that end ?

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
said by kovy7:

So you're saying Bell is being anti competitive on that end ?

The CRTC does not appear to think so.

To be fair, people do have a number of options these days: cellphones from dozens of brands across 4-5 carrier networks, VoIP over DSL/Cable/LTE/HSPA and cable-phone. So Bell customers who are sufficiently unhappy with Bell have plenty of mostly Bell-free options if they are genuinely that unhappy.

In the end, forcing people to explore non-POTS option could be one of the best things Bell could ever do for competition: drive awareness of (mostly) Bell-free options. That's practically the same thing Bell did with retail UBB: force heavy-ish users to explore options and that helped TSI increase their subscriber base by 400% over the past 4-5 years.

If Bell wants to shoot their own feet, let them. That is how alternative service providers get most of their business. At some point, Bell's upper-management will eventually realize that their old business model is failing.

markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom
reply to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

I'm not so sure about that. My street sees a lot of maintenance for some reason and the city is always digging extensively summer. My cable drop has been cut 3 times by maintenance work, and my neighbours have had similar experiences as well. During these periods of construction and maintenance Rogers is alway out in full force pulling temp drops to everyone's home. It got so bad that if you looked up all you would see is a web of temp coax drops criss crossing through trees. At the same time, I have never had my POTS line cut nor have I ever seen a Bell truck on my street during those times repairing anything.

I'm not really going to argue about the reliability aspect. VoIP is plenty reliable enough for me. I pay $3.50 a month for what Bell would charge me $40+ (I have voicemail, voicemail to email (audio attachment), call display, selective call blocking, etc).

If it were life or death, I'd pay the $30 (I'd lose the call display, voicemail, etc. if I couldn't afford it), but as it stands now, VoIP is good enough.

If you want reliability on a dying platform, you have to realize you have to pay for it. It's not Bell out to punish the weak and vulnerable in society, it's that POTS is dying and maintenance costs have to be spread out over a smaller base. They could decrease reliability, by cutting maintenance, but then what would the point of POTS be at all?

If POTS users are paying for their service, who should be? Should Bell be required to operate the service at a loss, or at significantly less of a profit margin than the rest of their business?

I would think if others are subsidizing POTS there is more of a problem than the user pays system there is now.


Jackorama

join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

1 edit
reply to zong
Click for full size
zong,

I have checked. Notice that I have been paying more than you. I have been paying this price since last June. I remember 20 years ago, this number cost only $9 a month with a $2 phone rental fee. Now look at the cost.

Edit: Does seem like it's that time of the year when Bell puts it up. Maybe, I will get notice on the next bill.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to elitefx
Why is POTS dying? It's expensive. Why is it expensive? Because it's a cashcow. The telcos believe they can set the price to be whatever they want and have driven customers away. They feel they can make more money on wireless so are focusing on what makes the most money. They are creating their own loss of service.

They have degraded the SLA for pots phones to the point where it makes the poorer reliability alternatives look quite reasonable.

Where I live, there's no alternative for people with imperative requirements for phone. Internet for VoIP is simply not reliable enough and cell phone coverage is too poor. Move 6" and go from 50% strength to none at all!

The only acceptable phone service is POTS. On the whole, POTS is more reliable than the alternatives. There are areas where VoIP and "digital phone" (like cable) have good reliability ... and curiously the cell phone coverage in those areas is usually good too!

The curious thing is that the telcos actually pay more to maintain POTS service in the areas it's needed most, and because they're pricing themselves out of POTS, the cross subsidization from urban services is being lost!

All because providing telecom is now all about greed and not about providing a service.

My rant of the day!

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.

Close, but not the same. They knew what they were getting in to when they signed the contract. I looked at the WLFS contract a number of years ago, and realized it was pretty crappy. I went a different route for providing home phone service to my customers.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
said by HeadSpinning:

Close, but not the same. They knew what they were getting in to when they signed the contract.

You may know what you got into when you signed the original contract but you never know what will happen when you attempt to re-negotiate it with someone who has no obligation to make your life any easier.

I'm guessing part of the reason TSI does not want to increase their transfer limit could be one of Bell's conditions being a $2-3/month (10-15%) rate hike across both new and existing subscribers to mirror this hike. If it originally wasn't, it might be now.


sm5w2
Premium
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON
reply to elitefx
Where / when did Bell announce this increase? I get a paper bill for one of my phone lines, and there is nothing printed on the bill (bill for mid-april to mid-may) that indicates a price increase.

I have two pots lines. One line has call-answer on it. Monthly charges are:

Residence line $26.22
911 emergency service access $0.16
Touch-Tone service $2.80
Call Answer service $10.95

The other line:

Residence line $24.28
911 emergency service access $0.16
Touch-Tone service $2.80

No other services listed for either line, and I've never had / ordered any other services for either line in the past.

Judging by those costs, are those lines still covered by tarrif as far as costs go? I note that I'm paying $2 more for "Residential line" for the first line vs the second - is this because it is not a tarrif'd product?

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?


JCohen
Premium
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by sm5w2:

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

It's possible that people are but they likely have a contract.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by JCohen:

said by sm5w2:

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

It's possible that people are but they likely have a contract.

I'm paying about $13 for a basic line with no features. Pricing is good for a year without contract.


zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
How many other services do you have with them? TV / Internet?

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
said by zong:

How many other services do you have with them? TV / Internet?

Nothing, just POTS.


zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
Can you post a screen cap of your bill like we did? You're in the scarbz and as am I, yet mine is double.

yyzlhr

join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON
kudos:4
Click for full size
said by zong:

Can you post a screen cap of your bill like we did? You're in the scarbz and as am I, yet mine is double.

Here is the order summary I received. Don't have access to the online billing portal as I'm not the account holder.

Obviously, what I'm paying is not the regular price. I received an offer from Rogers for a basic landline for $10 a month price locked for 2 years. I called Bell asking what their 30 day notice policy was in regards to porting and they asked me why and I told them about the Rogers offer and this is what they offered me. Even though it was slightly more expensive than Rogers, this gave me the flexibility of not having a contract, but allowed me to buy some time while I evaluate different VoIP options.


zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·mycybernet.net
·Switchworks
reply to elitefx
Ahhh, got it.

So essentially it's the same price, but on a one year promo. I'm tempted to pull the same thing, but based on what I have seen Bell do in the past - they hit the "home phone" packages first and more frequently with increases.

But, it does annoy me that they can take what should have been or was at one time, a foreborn / regulated service such as "residence line" and just increase it at will as well.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2
reply to sm5w2
said by sm5w2:

Where / when did Bell announce this increase? I get a paper bill for one of my phone lines, and there is nothing printed on the bill (bill for mid-april to mid-may) that indicates a price increase......Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

Just posted price increase link in first post......Apparently Bell is picking and choosing which POTS customers get a $3.05 increase and who gets less of an increase and who gets a zero increase.