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zed173
join:2010-07-17
Mississauga, ON

zed173 to kovy7

Member

to kovy7

Re: Bell 12% POTS Line Increase June 1st

As with most things I'm pretty sure it has to do with money, in this case probably a safe bet to say their margins are much higher on their VOIP service compared to reselling POTS.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7

Member

said by zed173:

As with most things I'm pretty sure it has to do with money, in this case probably a safe bet to say their margins are much higher on their VOIP service compared to reselling POTS.

That's probably that answer... cause who else is selling Bell pots ?
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError to HeadSpinning

Member

to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr to markf

Member

to markf
said by markf:

Ok, I'll give you the reliability point on 911 calls.

In terms of cable cuts, it is just as likely that a phone cable gets cut as a cable wire. If it's underground, I'm assuming they are in fairly close proximity. As I mentioned in my case, it takes Bell 3 - 5 days to come out and fix a line so that's about the same.

I'm not so sure about that. My street sees a lot of maintenance for some reason and the city is always digging extensively summer. My cable drop has been cut 3 times by maintenance work, and my neighbours have had similar experiences as well. During these periods of construction and maintenance Rogers is alway out in full force pulling temp drops to everyone's home. It got so bad that if you looked up all you would see is a web of temp coax drops criss crossing through trees. At the same time, I have never had my POTS line cut nor have I ever seen a Bell truck on my street during those times repairing anything.
kovy7
join:2009-03-26

kovy7 to InvalidError

Member

to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

said by HeadSpinning:

I assure you, Bell can't just do what they please. They are bound by contracts they sign - particularly on forborne services.

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.

So you're saying Bell is being anti competitive on that end ?
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError

Member

said by kovy7:

So you're saying Bell is being anti competitive on that end ?

The CRTC does not appear to think so.

To be fair, people do have a number of options these days: cellphones from dozens of brands across 4-5 carrier networks, VoIP over DSL/Cable/LTE/HSPA and cable-phone. So Bell customers who are sufficiently unhappy with Bell have plenty of mostly Bell-free options if they are genuinely that unhappy.

In the end, forcing people to explore non-POTS option could be one of the best things Bell could ever do for competition: drive awareness of (mostly) Bell-free options. That's practically the same thing Bell did with retail UBB: force heavy-ish users to explore options and that helped TSI increase their subscriber base by 400% over the past 4-5 years.

If Bell wants to shoot their own feet, let them. That is how alternative service providers get most of their business. At some point, Bell's upper-management will eventually realize that their old business model is failing.
markf
join:2008-01-24
Scarborough, ON

markf to yyzlhr

Member

to yyzlhr
said by yyzlhr:

I'm not so sure about that. My street sees a lot of maintenance for some reason and the city is always digging extensively summer. My cable drop has been cut 3 times by maintenance work, and my neighbours have had similar experiences as well. During these periods of construction and maintenance Rogers is alway out in full force pulling temp drops to everyone's home. It got so bad that if you looked up all you would see is a web of temp coax drops criss crossing through trees. At the same time, I have never had my POTS line cut nor have I ever seen a Bell truck on my street during those times repairing anything.

I'm not really going to argue about the reliability aspect. VoIP is plenty reliable enough for me. I pay $3.50 a month for what Bell would charge me $40+ (I have voicemail, voicemail to email (audio attachment), call display, selective call blocking, etc).

If it were life or death, I'd pay the $30 (I'd lose the call display, voicemail, etc. if I couldn't afford it), but as it stands now, VoIP is good enough.

If you want reliability on a dying platform, you have to realize you have to pay for it. It's not Bell out to punish the weak and vulnerable in society, it's that POTS is dying and maintenance costs have to be spread out over a smaller base. They could decrease reliability, by cutting maintenance, but then what would the point of POTS be at all?

If POTS users are paying for their service, who should be? Should Bell be required to operate the service at a loss, or at significantly less of a profit margin than the rest of their business?

I would think if others are subsidizing POTS there is more of a problem than the user pays system there is now.

Jackorama
I Am Woman
Premium Member
join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

1 edit

Jackorama to zong

Premium Member

to zong
Click for full size
zong,

I have checked. Notice that I have been paying more than you. I have been paying this price since last June. I remember 20 years ago, this number cost only $9 a month with a $2 phone rental fee. Now look at the cost.

Edit: Does seem like it's that time of the year when Bell puts it up. Maybe, I will get notice on the next bill.

sbrook
Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa

sbrook to elitefx

Mod

to elitefx
Why is POTS dying? It's expensive. Why is it expensive? Because it's a cashcow. The telcos believe they can set the price to be whatever they want and have driven customers away. They feel they can make more money on wireless so are focusing on what makes the most money. They are creating their own loss of service.

They have degraded the SLA for pots phones to the point where it makes the poorer reliability alternatives look quite reasonable.

Where I live, there's no alternative for people with imperative requirements for phone. Internet for VoIP is simply not reliable enough and cell phone coverage is too poor. Move 6" and go from 50% strength to none at all!

The only acceptable phone service is POTS. On the whole, POTS is more reliable than the alternatives. There are areas where VoIP and "digital phone" (like cable) have good reliability ... and curiously the cell phone coverage in those areas is usually good too!

The curious thing is that the telcos actually pay more to maintain POTS service in the areas it's needed most, and because they're pricing themselves out of POTS, the cross subsidization from urban services is being lost!

All because providing telecom is now all about greed and not about providing a service.

My rant of the day!
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning to InvalidError

Member

to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:

Bell may be bound by contracts but clauses in those contracts are mostly Bell's to dictate. If Bell's contract grants 50k transfers and TSI uses them up, TSI needs to bring Bell back to the table and renegotiate the contract and Bell has no obligation to oblige.

That is pretty close to Bell doing whatever they want.

Close, but not the same. They knew what they were getting in to when they signed the contract. I looked at the WLFS contract a number of years ago, and realized it was pretty crappy. I went a different route for providing home phone service to my customers.
InvalidError
join:2008-02-03

InvalidError

Member

said by HeadSpinning:

Close, but not the same. They knew what they were getting in to when they signed the contract.

You may know what you got into when you signed the original contract but you never know what will happen when you attempt to re-negotiate it with someone who has no obligation to make your life any easier.

I'm guessing part of the reason TSI does not want to increase their transfer limit could be one of Bell's conditions being a $2-3/month (10-15%) rate hike across both new and existing subscribers to mirror this hike. If it originally wasn't, it might be now.

sm5w2
Premium Member
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

sm5w2 to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
Where / when did Bell announce this increase? I get a paper bill for one of my phone lines, and there is nothing printed on the bill (bill for mid-april to mid-may) that indicates a price increase.

I have two pots lines. One line has call-answer on it. Monthly charges are:

Residence line $26.22
911 emergency service access $0.16
Touch-Tone service $2.80
Call Answer service $10.95

The other line:

Residence line $24.28
911 emergency service access $0.16
Touch-Tone service $2.80

No other services listed for either line, and I've never had / ordered any other services for either line in the past.

Judging by those costs, are those lines still covered by tarrif as far as costs go? I note that I'm paying $2 more for "Residential line" for the first line vs the second - is this because it is not a tarrif'd product?

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_

Premium Member

said by sm5w2:

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

It's possible that people are but they likely have a contract.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

said by JC_:

said by sm5w2:

Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

It's possible that people are but they likely have a contract.

I'm paying about $13 for a basic line with no features. Pricing is good for a year without contract.

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

zong

Premium Member

How many other services do you have with them? TV / Internet?
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

said by zong:

How many other services do you have with them? TV / Internet?

Nothing, just POTS.

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

zong

Premium Member

Can you post a screen cap of your bill like we did? You're in the scarbz and as am I, yet mine is double.
yyzlhr
join:2012-09-03
Scarborough, ON

yyzlhr

Member

Click for full size
said by zong:

Can you post a screen cap of your bill like we did? You're in the scarbz and as am I, yet mine is double.

Here is the order summary I received. Don't have access to the online billing portal as I'm not the account holder.

Obviously, what I'm paying is not the regular price. I received an offer from Rogers for a basic landline for $10 a month price locked for 2 years. I called Bell asking what their 30 day notice policy was in regards to porting and they asked me why and I told them about the Rogers offer and this is what they offered me. Even though it was slightly more expensive than Rogers, this gave me the flexibility of not having a contract, but allowed me to buy some time while I evaluate different VoIP options.

zong
Premium Member
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON

zong to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
Ahhh, got it.

So essentially it's the same price, but on a one year promo. I'm tempted to pull the same thing, but based on what I have seen Bell do in the past - they hit the "home phone" packages first and more frequently with increases.

But, it does annoy me that they can take what should have been or was at one time, a foreborn / regulated service such as "residence line" and just increase it at will as well.

elitefx
join:2011-02-14
London, ON

elitefx to sm5w2

Member

to sm5w2
said by sm5w2:

Where / when did Bell announce this increase? I get a paper bill for one of my phone lines, and there is nothing printed on the bill (bill for mid-april to mid-may) that indicates a price increase......Is *anyone* in Ontario paying less than $27 from Bell for a basic POTS line at this point (including touch-tone and 911) ?

Just posted price increase link in first post......Apparently Bell is picking and choosing which POTS customers get a $3.05 increase and who gets less of an increase and who gets a zero increase.

sm5w2
Premium Member
join:2004-10-13
St Thomas, ON

sm5w2

Premium Member

> Just posted price increase link in first post......Apparently Bell
> is picking and choosing which POTS customers get a $3.05
> increase and who gets less of an increase and who gets a zero increase.

Can someone explain these increases?

»www.bell.ca/Residential_ ··· _updates

Who is paying these $18.xx, $19.xx, $20.xx, $22.xx prices? Are those Promo/contracts prices?

Why am I paying $27.28 and not $27.07? Looks like I'm going to be hit with the $3.05 increase (which pizzes me off).

Who would I have to be, or where would I have to be living, to be paying $27.07?

What is "rate band D2B" ???

What is so special about $27.33 ? Why are so many different rates being increased to that specific new rate?

Jackorama
I Am Woman
Premium Member
join:2008-05-23
Kingston, ON

Jackorama to elitefx

Premium Member

to elitefx
I just got my e-bill today and got hit with the price increase. Still no notice that this was going to happen. I checked all my bills and emails, as they usually notify me this way. I also check all the important notices on the online account manager, this is the only notice from April:

Telephone Services
Before doing any work on your property this summer, whether installing a pool, fence, deck or other, it's
important to keep in mind that there may be essential phone, power or gas lines buried. Before you begin
any work, please contact: - In Ontario, visit www.on1call.com or call 1 800 400-2255 - In Québec, visit
www.info-ex.com or call 1 800 663-9228

And I got a notice on the online account manger about how you can do more online. Other than that, there was nothing. I only knew there was going to be an increase because of this topic.

Or I'm psychic, because I cancelled all my Bell services yesterday. They tried to offer me internet for $36 for a year with no contract and free phone for 6 months. I told them it didn't matter because they all go back to full price + increases during that time and the whole point is they are too expensive in the first place. $31.18 + Tax for a basic phone (no extras) that doesn't get used much is ridiculous.

So, as of July 24 I will be Bell free. Instead of paying $106.31 (Tax included) a month for Bell basic phone and internet, I will be paying $69.94 (Tax included) a month for a basic phone and faster with a higher cap internet.